Frank Cali shot dead

[scagghiuni]

Dont make the mistake of confusing them with either the Siderno group, OR the clans from the Gionica group...

i didn't confuse them i just said the calabrians involved are lcn members and ndrangheta is not involved

[CabriniGreen]

Aah okay, let me ask this then....

Why all the meetings in Toronto, how does Toronto figure in all of this? Were the meetings with the Cuntreras then?

[scagghiuni]

Aah okay, let me ask this then....

Why all the meetings in Toronto, how does Toronto figure in all of this? Were the meetings with the Cuntreras then?

people involved in ontario are lcn members too violi, luppino etc.
the cuntreras are involved, poncho cuntrera replaced his father and he's among the current mafia leader in montreal
if you mean ndrangheta siderno group does not seem involved or peripherally at most

[CabriniGreen]

One thing for sure..... Manninno to me is key in this.

Either he knew or didn't, question is will he react like John Gambino did when Castellano was hit and do business with WHOEVER DID THIS ( couldn't help myself there, lol) also, if this is a power play, don't Cefalu, Mannino, and maybe Tall Pete gotta go too? And what about any supporters?

Also, people mentioned the Corrozzos, but they were Gotti rivals, right? Think they buried the hatchet?

[PHL_Mob]

For what it’s worth, my two scents: This has nothing to do with the recent court cases or the snake dying or Bonnanos acquited, etc. This was a planned professional hit that took months to plan so nothing to do with drug seizure at the port. Smart money says Gene Gotti claimed his seat (and rightfully so, or at least he has a case with his brother Pete being official boss) and Cali wouldn’t step aside.... the hit goes into motion. Gene is in his 70s. Even if he gets a 5 year run out of this it would be worth it for him. He’s got nothing to lose. I’d put my money on this coming from Gene and Carniglia etc. by the way, that blue truck is a Brillo pad by now and they will never find it.

[CabriniGreen]

Aah okay, let me ask this then....

Why all the meetings in Toronto, how does Toronto figure in all of this? Were the meetings with the Cuntreras then?

people involved in ontario are lcn members too violi, luppino etc.
the cuntreras are involved, poncho cuntrera replaced his father and he's among the current mafia leader in montreal
if you mean ndrangheta siderno group does not seem involved or peripherally at most

This is where it gets tough, I'm talking about the meetings in Toronto. Montreal is one thing. Like no one can tell me what Semplice was doing in Toronto or who he met with. The Violis seem about as involved as the Calabrians, I think anti mafia said something like this, that whatever their involvement with the Rizzuto hits, it's still unclear to what extent. At the time of the hits, they weren't made at all. So how were they gonna take over? And to top it off, they were with Buffalo.....

Same with the Violis and Big Joe at the Calabrian wedding.....

Poncho replaced Augustino? So it's him, Leonardo, Pietrantonio, Sollecito..... what happened to the Arcuris?

Never mind, lol I'm getting too sidetracked.....

[gohnjotti]

New theory - DeCavs are sick of being “under” the Gambinos, as Charles Stango put it, and the boss - “Milk” - went into revenge mode

[John W]

I’m reading all over the place that this was a sloppy hit when I actually think the opposite, the shooter had to get Cali outside the house which he did, he popped him six times in the body and head and he died and the shooter got away clean, looks good to me

[CabriniGreen]

For what it’s worth, my two scents: This has nothing to do with the recent court cases or the snake dying or Bonnanos acquited, etc. This was a planned professional hit that took months to plan so nothing to do with drug seizure at the port. Smart money says Gene Gotti claimed his seat (and rightfully so, or at least he has a case with his brother Pete being official boss) and Cali wouldn’t step aside.... the hit goes into motion. Gene is in his 70s. Even if he gets a 5 year run out of this it would be worth it for him. He’s got nothing to lose. I’d put my money on this coming from Gene and Carniglia etc. by the way, that blue truck is a Brillo pad by now and they will never find it.

The problem I see is, no one agrees Cali was the actual boss. Don't Cefalu, and Mannino gotta get hit? Or was Cali not the BOSS, but the POWER behind the faction? Whatever connects Cali had, I'm certain were inherited from John Gambino, maybe Mannino and Cefalu, and the guys under them have the same capabilities, who knows. Now, if I'm not mistaken, John Gotti made Mannino, so maybe him and Gene are on amicable terms. Gene was in business with Sciacia, it's not like he had NO interactions with em.....the Sicilians I mean.....

Actually, now that I think about it, and I think Bronx has said this, The 2 Johns were on pretty good terms. Cali DID come up under the Gotti crew basically, right? Gene might have looked at him like a kid. Some real Feech LaManna- Richie Aprile- Tony shit lol....

With Sicily in disarray, maybe they are actually weak at the moment. Like someone else said, the Calabrians just want to move coke I think, and launder money, quietly. This makes them hot as hell,at a time when they would be trying to open up a NY route.

I think the guys are right, the hit was too soon after the coke bust to be connected.....

But at the same time, we've never done a deep dive on why the Gambinos felt compelled to source and secure cocaine first for the Sicilians, ( I get the family tie to the Inzerillos) then the Calabrians. Like coke to Europe, and the money laundered in Brooklyn. I could never understand WHY, they got involved, and what the hell they got out of it.


We know the Gottis wouldn't feel obligated to ask the other families, but maybe they felt em out? Thinking aloud here....

[Camo]

Everything about Mannino being one of the very top guys is pure speculation at this point. Solid speculation which i wouldn't be surprised to find out is true but Mannino has only been identified as a Captain, i know he's connected to all of those guys but for all we know he's a level below them not making those types of decisions. Hell Tony Gurino and Sonny Juliano were identified with a higher rank than Mannino. Just saying because i think people here (understandably) often crown him as boss practically then work from there as if it's established fact.

[CabriniGreen]

I get you, but I think it's a mistake to look at them like, NOT a click. Thier strength was their connections, and their tight knit clan....

I think felices info had him underboss, I've seen Cali referred to as Boss, Acting boss, underboss AND consigliere at various times......


If they just go along with the murder, then we gotta rethink WHAT "Sicilian faction" even means.

I'll say this, in a conflict, I'd probably bet on Gotti over Cefalu.

I thought a big part of why Cali was promoted was his wife ranging respect, and that the Gambinos were TIRED of the Gottis publicity. Welp, they are about to get a HUGE dose of it.

I thought the Gambinos were rolling under the sicilians, and maybe they were, it just didnt translate to the other crews.

[CabriniGreen]

Should say, wide ranging respect

[CabriniGreen]

Also, I gotta add, in thier hierarchy structure, I dont think the Manninos are that below the Gambinos. Domenico was very powerful, they seem to be "in the streets", so to speak. Check felices info.... he had a Mannino in the 80s actually kinda defying John Gambino, and acting independent....

Put it th his way, if he didnt get locked up, Lorenzo might have been in Calis spot first....imo...

Also, just look at history. Powerful guys, put thier guys from thier crews in powerful positions... ALL THE TIME...

[Strax]

there is no way calabrians are behind, the order came from sicily or another ny family, or it's within the gambino's

I think the same, but i would bet on Sicilians, if its internal to Gambinos,they just made a huge mess for themselves,feds will be all over, too much heat

[Camo]

Also, I gotta add, in thier hierarchy structure, I dont think the Manninos are that below the Gambinos. Domenico was very powerful, they seem to be "in the streets", so to speak. Check felices info.... he had a Mannino in the 80s actually kinda defying John Gambino, and acting independent....

Put it th his way, if he didnt get locked up, Lorenzo might have been in Calis spot first....imo...

Also, just look at history. Powerful guys, put thier guys from thier crews in powerful positions... ALL THE TIME...

I understand Lorenzo is one of the top candidates for the top spot from what we know of him but at the same time i know that doesn't always mean it's the case because there's so much we don't know. I forgot about Felice though, think he's one of the best posters here and his info has been great so far so i'm fine leaving it that, he obviously knows a lot more than me about all of this. Just a few thoughts though...

I just felt people were getting a bit carried away with how central they think Mannino is in this. It could be true but i'd think his influence in the family would be mentioned by now if it was higher than Captain whether in official title or in influence. I know he seems like the right guy but that's been wrong before. Maybe he doesn't want to be that involved i mean he did spend a decade in prison and he's not young anymore, being captain of that crew could be enough responsibility at this point for him. Personally i don't believe John Gambino was boss like some others do, i think he was a very influential semi-retired captain in his last years and that was likely by choice because he was said to be ill way back when he was released from prison in what, 2006. Maybe Mannino learned from that or was advised by Gambino, and he decided he didn't want to be at the top, who knows. Also relationships change so fast in that world, best example being Massino and Vitale. I'd be surprised if that's going on but i would be surprised if he's that influential and hasn't been mentioned in the seven years since we were first told Cefalu was boss. Cefalu, Cali, Gambino, Gurino and Juliano (was Vernace during this time or earlier? Don't remember) were all mentioned as admin members during this time but not Mannino? Weird when most seem to think he's Cefalu and Cali's equal and somehow we've always known they were at that level but not him. I'm just holding off in thinking he's that influential until we learn more.

Curious why people never crown Domenick Cefalu in that way. He's actually related to the guy who has most regularly been identified as the top guy on the street, of course it may not be accurate but he was always identified as above Gambino. I guess it's because he's relatively unknown but so was Domenico for a long time, and that may be the exact reason he was elevated to his spot. We seem to believe the drug dealers who spent 10-15 years of their life in jail must be in charge, but i wonder if that's because we've learned a lot about them due to them failing as criminals, something Cefalu largely hasn't done after 30+ years of involvement in the mob he's only been jailed twice never for long (in mob terms) and he stayed under the radar for a long time, hell he's still under the radar now.

Felice's input on this will always be more valuable than mine, and i think it's very likely Mannino is one of the people heading the family. I'm just not ready to crown him and then frame my speculation around that, it's fine and understandable if others do though.