More Magaddino family info 1960s (including Rochester)

[B.]

Great article. Strange, though, that it doesn't mention the Agueci murder at all. It's clear from the Magaddino tapes and other info the FBI received at the time that Russolesi was suspected of handling the Agueci murder, whose body turned up in Rochester, and had generated unprecedented media and LE pressure given the drug case's connections to Magaddino and Valachi's testimony and connection to Agueci. Magaddino tapes show he was very concerned that Russolesi would crack under the pressure. One transcript also indicates he was upset with Russolesi because John Papalia was supposed to be killed along with Agueci but somehow Papalia wasn't killed and came to visit Magaddino in NF without prior approval. Valachi also told the FBI that he believed Papalia was supposed to be killed along with Agueci.

If Piccaretto was telling the full truth, it seems Magaddino was using the excuse of money to justify the Russolesi murder, or that was just one of the reasons. I can see why Magaddino wouldn't want to create another unnecessary connection to the Agueci case by telling Russolesi's underlings that was a motivation for the murder.

[Pogo The Clown]

Wow great find. Especially that interview with Loren Piccaretto. He was the Acting UnderBoss during the 80s and now he is giving interviews to the press. Funny.


Pogo

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

That was fun to watch. The feds won the battle vs. the Rochester Mob, hand down.

[Hailbritain]

https://eu.democratandchronicle.com/sto ... 191800002/

[Wiseguy]

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3279&start=10

[newera_212]

would love to get hands on that interview with Rene Picaretto. shame it didnt get finished before he died. sounds like he was pulling a joe bonanno before he passed away . moved out west, and wanted to do a tell all on his life and his version of rochester's mob history. the guy was around for the crazy stuff

[Villain]

There were four Carlisis, this is the first I heard of Alphonse being involved. Roy was of course UB in Buffalo and Sam and Carmen were both with the Outfit, although Carmen died fairly young (early seventies).

Alphonse was arrested in 1967 and it seems that the Carlisis used the alias Drago, including Sam. After Als arrest, i dont have any info if he was still active under Aiuppa

Btw Sam was arrested back in 1947 on gambling charges in Cicero which means they were present in that area for quite a long time

[Snakes]

There were four Carlisis, this is the first I heard of Alphonse being involved. Roy was of course UB in Buffalo and Sam and Carmen were both with the Outfit, although Carmen died fairly young (early seventies).

Alphonse was arrested in 1967 and it seems that the Carlisis used the alias Drago, including Sam. After Als arrest, i dont have any info if he was still active under Aiuppa

Btw Sam was arrested back in 1947 on gambling charges in Cicero which means they were present in that area for quite a long time

The Carlisis used Drago because their father, Joseph, used it. I'm not sure if Joseph was ever officially involved with LCN in any capacity, but he owned a tavern and did serve couple of years in prison (for an offense which I have not ascertained). Also, Al and Sam thought that their real last name was Drago for a time and they were registered in schools with the name. To make it even more confusing, Carmen/Carmine Carlisi also used the names "Sam Drago" and "Black Sam" years before the younger Carlisi achieved a position of prominence in the Outfit. It could be because Carmen's middle name was Samuel.

Al died in 1989 and I also didn't see any indication that he was active in Outfit affairs any time after his arrest. It looks like he stayed in the Chicago area, too.

[Villain]

There were four Carlisis, this is the first I heard of Alphonse being involved. Roy was of course UB in Buffalo and Sam and Carmen were both with the Outfit, although Carmen died fairly young (early seventies).

Alphonse was arrested in 1967 and it seems that the Carlisis used the alias Drago, including Sam. After Als arrest, i dont have any info if he was still active under Aiuppa

Btw Sam was arrested back in 1947 on gambling charges in Cicero which means they were present in that area for quite a long time

The Carlisis used Drago because their father, Joseph, used it. I'm not sure if Joseph was ever officially involved with LCN in any capacity, but he owned a tavern and did serve couple of years in prison (for an offense which I have not ascertained). Also, Al and Sam thought that their real last name was Drago for a time and they were registered in schools with the name. To make it even more confusing, Carmen/Carmine Carlisi also used the names "Sam Drago" and "Black Sam" years before the younger Carlisi achieved a position of prominence in the Outfit. It could be because Carmen's middle name was Samuel.

Al died in 1989 and I also didn't see any indication that he was active in Outfit affairs any time after his arrest. It looks like he stayed in the Chicago area, too.

Cool stuff and thanks. So this means that Sam Carlisi from 1947 couldve been Carmen? And btw he was labeled as Carlisi back then, not Drago. Maybe we can receive some info from his adress on Polk st...

[Snakes]

I believe that is referring to Samuel Carlisi. 4737 Polk Street was the address of Sam's father's tavern and I believe Sam and his parents lived in the flat above it. Sam also got a deferment from the draft in WWII because he claimed his parents were both dependent on him as his father was suffering from some ailments at the time. Sam enlisted in the Coast Guard at the end of WWII and served a couple of years before being honorably discharged. Sam was using Carlisi by this time but it appears that Carmen continued to use "Sam Drago" at the same time, which led to some confusion among investigating agents.

Roy was the only one living in Buffalo from at least the 1940s on. Carmen, Al, Sam, and both of their parents had all relocated to the Chicago area by then. It's interesting to note that Carmen and Al were alleged to be higher in the organization in the mid-sixties but Sam was the one described by informants as being "groomed" to take over Cicero for Joey Aiuppa at some point.

[Villain]

I believe that is referring to Samuel Carlisi. 4737 Polk Street was the address of Sam's father's tavern and I believe Sam and his parents lived in the flat above it. Sam also got a deferment from the draft in WWII because he claimed his parents were both dependent on him as his father was suffering from some ailments at the time. Sam enlisted in the Coast Guard at the end of WWII and served a couple of years before being honorably discharged. Sam was using Carlisi by this time but it appears that Carmen continued to use "Sam Drago" at the same time, which led to some confusion among investigating agents.

Roy was the only one living in Buffalo from at least the 1940s on. Carmen, Al, Sam, and both of their parents had all relocated to the Chicago area by then. It's interesting to note that Carmen and Al were alleged to be higher in the organization in the mid-sixties but Sam was the one described by informants as being "groomed" to take over Cicero for Joey Aiuppa at some point.

Thanks again man, I needed that info

Its interesting that the Carlisis started on the west side and I wonder if they had ties all the way to the old Sicilian Mafia organization, before Capone took over. For example I have one Sam Scaletta who was killed in 1914 near a house which was owned by one Joe or Joseph Drago. The address was 1119 Townsend St, which is near Polk St I think or maybe Im wrong. Before Scaletta was killed, he and his wife also lived in that same house and talked to Drago and then one or two shooters attacked. And you know how many examples are there with a point man who usually talked to the victim or stalked him, just saying. I also think that some important addresses are renamed as time passed by

http://homicide.northwestern.edu/databa ... /?page=362

[Snakes]

I believe that is referring to Samuel Carlisi. 4737 Polk Street was the address of Sam's father's tavern and I believe Sam and his parents lived in the flat above it. Sam also got a deferment from the draft in WWII because he claimed his parents were both dependent on him as his father was suffering from some ailments at the time. Sam enlisted in the Coast Guard at the end of WWII and served a couple of years before being honorably discharged. Sam was using Carlisi by this time but it appears that Carmen continued to use "Sam Drago" at the same time, which led to some confusion among investigating agents.

Roy was the only one living in Buffalo from at least the 1940s on. Carmen, Al, Sam, and both of their parents had all relocated to the Chicago area by then. It's interesting to note that Carmen and Al were alleged to be higher in the organization in the mid-sixties but Sam was the one described by informants as being "groomed" to take over Cicero for Joey Aiuppa at some point.

Thanks again man, I needed that info

Its interesting that the Carlisis started on the west side and I wonder if they had ties all the way to the old Sicilian Mafia organization, before Capone took over. For example I have one Sam Scaletta who was killed in 1914 near a house which was owned by one Joe or Joseph Drago. The address was 1119 Townsend St, which is near Polk St I think or maybe Im wrong. Before Scaletta was killed, he and his wife also lived in that same house and talked to Drago and then one or two shooters attacked. And you know how many examples are there with a point man who usually talked to the victim or stalked him, just saying. I also think that some important addresses are renamed as time passed by

http://homicide.northwestern.edu/databa ... /?page=362

I don't mean to take over this Maggadino thread with discussion on the Carlisis but I'll make one more post on it because it's somewhat relative to the Buffalo/Maggadino family and Roy Carlisi. I'm going off of memory here but Joseph/Giuseppe Carlisi was born in Italy and immigrated to New York. They stayed there until roughly the late 1930s before moving to Chicago. Roy obviously stayed in the Buffalo area. I believe the Carlisis briefly returned to New York before permanently returning by the early 1940s, at the latest. Al Tornabene's mother was married to Joseph Carlisi's brother. Tornabene and the Carlisis all handled bookmaking for Aiuppa out of Villa Nova in the sixties and early seventies. Carmen died in the early seventies and Al Carlisi seemed to cease his involvement with the Outfit, at least on any sort of prominent scale. Sam Carlisi and Tornabene, as we know, both rose to positions of importance by the end of the decade.

[Villain]

I believe that is referring to Samuel Carlisi. 4737 Polk Street was the address of Sam's father's tavern and I believe Sam and his parents lived in the flat above it. Sam also got a deferment from the draft in WWII because he claimed his parents were both dependent on him as his father was suffering from some ailments at the time. Sam enlisted in the Coast Guard at the end of WWII and served a couple of years before being honorably discharged. Sam was using Carlisi by this time but it appears that Carmen continued to use "Sam Drago" at the same time, which led to some confusion among investigating agents.

Roy was the only one living in Buffalo from at least the 1940s on. Carmen, Al, Sam, and both of their parents had all relocated to the Chicago area by then. It's interesting to note that Carmen and Al were alleged to be higher in the organization in the mid-sixties but Sam was the one described by informants as being "groomed" to take over Cicero for Joey Aiuppa at some point.

Thanks again man, I needed that info

Its interesting that the Carlisis started on the west side and I wonder if they had ties all the way to the old Sicilian Mafia organization, before Capone took over. For example I have one Sam Scaletta who was killed in 1914 near a house which was owned by one Joe or Joseph Drago. The address was 1119 Townsend St, which is near Polk St I think or maybe Im wrong. Before Scaletta was killed, he and his wife also lived in that same house and talked to Drago and then one or two shooters attacked. And you know how many examples are there with a point man who usually talked to the victim or stalked him, just saying. I also think that some important addresses are renamed as time passed by

http://homicide.northwestern.edu/databa ... /?page=362

I don't mean to take over this Maggadino thread with discussion on the Carlisis but I'll make one more post on it because it's somewhat relative to the Buffalo/Maggadino family and Roy Carlisi. I'm going off of memory here but Joseph/Giuseppe Carlisi was born in Italy and immigrated to New York. They stayed there until roughly the late 1930s before moving to Chicago. Roy obviously stayed in the Buffalo area. I believe the Carlisis briefly returned to New York before permanently returning by the early 1940s, at the latest. Al Tornabene's mother was married to Joseph Carlisi's brother. Tornabene and the Carlisis all handled bookmaking for Aiuppa out of Villa Nova in the sixties and early seventies. Carmen died in the early seventies and Al Carlisi seemed to cease his involvement with the Outfit, at least on any sort of prominent scale. Sam Carlisi and Tornabene, as we know, both rose to positions of importance by the end of the decade.

Nice

@B sorry for me and Snakes going a little bit off topic here

[B.]

No worries here. I've been more interested in the Carlisis recently as well. Roy Carlisi was asked to replace Fred Randaccio as underboss in 1968 but refused as he didn't want the heat it would bring. Magaddino had reportedly wanted to demote Randaccio for years, as he suspected him of withholding money, but waited until Randaccio's 1968 incarceration. Because Carlisi wouldn't take the position, it was given to Joe Fina. Randaccio had by all accounts been the "street boss" of the family and 1968 is when the family further broke into different factions. 1968 is also when top capodecina Pasquale Natarelli went to prison and was demoted, being replaced by Michael Perna.

[Pogo The Clown]

No worries here. I've been more interested in the Carlisis recently as well. Roy Carlisi was asked to replace Fred Randaccio as underboss in 1968 but refused as he didn't want the heat it would bring. Magaddino had reportedly wanted to demote Randaccio for years, as he suspected him of withholding money, but waited until Randaccio's 1968 incarceration. Because Carlisi wouldn't take the position, it was given to Joe Fina. Randaccio had by all accounts been the "street boss" of the family and 1968 is when the family further broke into different factions. 1968 is also when top capodecina Pasquale Natarelli went to prison and was demoted, being replaced by Michael Perna.

I have Peter Maggadino replacing Randaccio in 1968 before both Maggadinos were demoted in 1969. Do you happen to know who the first Consigliere was post Maggadino? As we know Maggadino didn't have one but the family was using the rank by the 1980s.


Pogo