Current Chicago Players 2020

[Antiliar]

Richard Cain may have been made. Many thought he was Italian or at least Italian on his father's side, but he was only Italian on his mother's side.

[PolackTony]

Richard Cain may have been made. Many thought he was Italian or at least Italian on his father's side, but he was only Italian on his mother's side.

The story I've always read was that he was only Italian on his mother's side and would sometimes go by her surname of Scalzitti. From what I've been able to gather, however, he seems to have been full Italian. He was born and attended school as Richard Scalzitti (Lane Tech HS). His mother was Molly Dolores Scalzitti, born in Chicago to parents from L'Aquila, Abruzzo. Confusingly though, it seems that Cain's father was Giuseppe Scalzitti, born in L'Aquila. I assume that his parents must've been cousins or something from back in the old country. Not sure when and where he picked up the "Cain" (some people in his mother's family went by the Anglicized "Skully" in some records, bit no Cain that I can see).

[PolackTony]

Maybe this has been discussed somewhere else already, but do we have any reason to believe that Panozzo Sr was made?

I ask because he's only Italian on his father's side, and on top of that his father's family were all from the North (Veneto). We know that at least back in the day one had to be full Italian to be made in Chicago. The only example I can think of where a guy was made who was only Italian on his dad's side was Jimmy Marcello. And while I don't know if there was ever any explicit barrier to making a guy of Northern ancestry in Chicago, I haven't yet seen an example of a made guy who didn't have ancestry from the South (though there were at least a couple from other families, Greg Scarpa being the most prominent Northerner. Tony Senter as well, if I'm not mistaken?).

Obviously this is just a guess, as no one can really know who is made these days. My assumption would be that he was a made guy in the grand Avenue crew. He certainly had the Street credit, as well as time put into the organization. It sounds like he came up under Lombardo in his early days, which would be a pretty good connection to get yourself made at some point in time. More than anything, it’s very clear that he was fully committed to the life.

My own assumption has always been that he was made. No evidence of course, but if Grand Ave was making anyone it would've been him. It would be nice to have something firmer for this though, as it would be useful to know if the Outfit made a guy in recent years who was half Italian (and Northern at that).

[Antiliar]

Richard Cain's father was John Cain, of Irish heritage. This is per his half-brother Michael J. Cain.

[PolackTony]

Richard Cain's father was John Cain, of Irish heritage. This is per his half-brother Michael J. Cain.

Thanks Antilliar. I forgot about Michael J Cain and was thrown off by another Richard Scalzitti who was around the same age as Cain. They were quite possibly cousins, as Cain's mother's (Lydia Scalzitti) parents were also from L'Aquila, Abruzzo.

I haven't read Michael J Cain's book, but my understanding is that he claims that Richard was made in the 1950's by Giancana, due to Giancana having a longstanding acquaintance with Lydia Scalzitti. Are there other sources that point to this as well? Did the feds have any CIs who claimed that Cain was made?

I

[Villain]

Thanks for the confirmation guys, and again, this confirms the info that by the mid 50s Cain was brought in and later sponsored by Marcy and since this guy was under Ferraro and Alex..the two mightve also additionally sponsored Cain into the Outfit, especially Ferraro. I dont remember but i think Alex was seen yelling at Cain the day before his murder or something like that....Cain was a valuable and intellectual individual, by knowing several languages and having many international connections

Btw, how many confirmations do we have regarding guys being made during the Giancana era or from 57 until 64? Cain, Cordovano, Allegretti...? Spilotro?

[SolarSolano]

IF theres still some top admin, then i bet my money that Cicero kept/keeps the number 1 spot, while Grand/EP comes second in line...that is obviously pure speculation, and as for guys like Solly D or Cataudella, IF they are still contacted regarding certain matters...and thats a big "if"...then they are probably senior advisors of sort

Few days ago i watched one old documentary regarding the commission trial and how the feds managed to bug their targets, and they also said that its not illegal to be a member of the Mafia unless that same individual did something wrong, like being involved in conspiracy. So later some goverment sources from the 90s said that the Mob (on national level) is slowly becoming a semi-legit enterprise that operates in a closed circle and its involved mostly in corruption...and to tell you the truth thats how i see todays Outfit

Agreed on this all the way. I know it's all speculation, but in the last ten years I believe we have enough indictments and cases to at least believe there is a smaller, streamlined outfit still in existence. If you take it to it's logical conclusion, most of these guys would be legit businessman, but that doesn't mean there can't be an outfit. Business still need financing and loans to get off the ground. Guys lending to other guys, utilizing political and law enforcement contacts to benefit when possible. That's the way any smart person would have gone in the last 30 years. On the fringes you still have all the old school street stuff happening with gambling, loansharking, burglary, all that stuff. Hell, we have enough cases with Grand Ave and Cicero in the past 5-10 years to prove that shit is still going on.

My bet...still a top admin. Just a different business model. Also...no way Solly D does all that time, is mentioned by Paulie K on wiretap in 2012, and spends all this time promoting a legit business (a front in my opinion), just to not get a taste of something nowadays. Senior Advisor/Top Boss, whatever you want to call it, makes sense to me. I guess Joe the Builder is still alive too...so he could be up there as well. Just like Johnny the Nose was "meeting old friends for pizza" during that ABC news piece in 2009. Yea freaking right. These dudes may mostly retire...but they are gangsters from a different time. This is their thing.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will say Solly lives very well he’s got a big black jaguar and the rolly on the wrist. But he also owns an entire block of businesses in island lake besides the carpet cleaning he has a bar as well as other stuff. Maybe he keeps it very low key but the only thing he talks about all the time is spending time with his kids and grandkids. He’s 80 something he’s not out and about he’s home at nights. He will talk openly about being in the gambling business and casinos he had etc but it all seems to be telling old stories

Would the expectation be that he'd talk openly about Outfit shit to you or people that you know?

Of course not but he will talk old stories. Your guessing something based on something you read in some article. I said it’s possible he is but if he is he keeps it very low key. Your saying he’s the boss he wouldn’t get out after doing his time etc do you know him? What do you base your opinions besides gangster report? My guess based on factually based stuff is he is probably in some kind of adviser role very removed from day to day who’s consulted from time to time. His old running buddies are dead or very old. I challenge anyone to show one single thing of proof he’s the boss. And carparelli was a braggart throwing his name. And all he said was Solly was partners with Mickey and that was 8 years ago. Solly has tons of dough and is not Interested in going back to the can again I’m assuming that but based on facts. He’s like a typical grandpa talking about his grandkids etc. believe what you want tho some people wanna live in a fantasy world. Do you know island lake? It’s a little tiny town in lake county that’s where he lives and owns various businesses and properties. If gangster report was true and Dino mArino drives him around wouldn’t there be some proof of that? Go to his business any day I promise there’s a black jag in front and he’s in there working. The people who know, know, that’s good enough for me

Do you know if Solly still pals around with Bobby DeDomenico?

[funkster]

Hate to do the "anyone with a vowel at the end of their name", but caught this release in the Trib last week. Given the names and the city as well as the scheme, anyone have a clue about the names involved here? Any connections that anyone may know about?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndil/press ... 6/download

[funkster]

Damn, broken link.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/cri ... story.html

[Villain]

Damn, broken link.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/cri ... story.html

Thanks

[Pete]

IF theres still some top admin, then i bet my money that Cicero kept/keeps the number 1 spot, while Grand/EP comes second in line...that is obviously pure speculation, and as for guys like Solly D or Cataudella, IF they are still contacted regarding certain matters...and thats a big "if"...then they are probably senior advisors of sort

Few days ago i watched one old documentary regarding the commission trial and how the feds managed to bug their targets, and they also said that its not illegal to be a member of the Mafia unless that same individual did something wrong, like being involved in conspiracy. So later some goverment sources from the 90s said that the Mob (on national level) is slowly becoming a semi-legit enterprise that operates in a closed circle and its involved mostly in corruption...and to tell you the truth thats how i see todays Outfit

Agreed on this all the way. I know it's all speculation, but in the last ten years I believe we have enough indictments and cases to at least believe there is a smaller, streamlined outfit still in existence. If you take it to it's logical conclusion, most of these guys would be legit businessman, but that doesn't mean there can't be an outfit. Business still need financing and loans to get off the ground. Guys lending to other guys, utilizing political and law enforcement contacts to benefit when possible. That's the way any smart person would have gone in the last 30 years. On the fringes you still have all the old school street stuff happening with gambling, loansharking, burglary, all that stuff. Hell, we have enough cases with Grand Ave and Cicero in the past 5-10 years to prove that shit is still going on.

My bet...still a top admin. Just a different business model. Also...no way Solly D does all that time, is mentioned by Paulie K on wiretap in 2012, and spends all this time promoting a legit business (a front in my opinion), just to not get a taste of something nowadays. Senior Advisor/Top Boss, whatever you want to call it, makes sense to me. I guess Joe the Builder is still alive too...so he could be up there as well. Just like Johnny the Nose was "meeting old friends for pizza" during that ABC news piece in 2009. Yea freaking right. These dudes may mostly retire...but they are gangsters from a different time. This is their thing.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will say Solly lives very well he’s got a big black jaguar and the rolly on the wrist. But he also owns an entire block of businesses in island lake besides the carpet cleaning he has a bar as well as other stuff. Maybe he keeps it very low key but the only thing he talks about all the time is spending time with his kids and grandkids. He’s 80 something he’s not out and about he’s home at nights. He will talk openly about being in the gambling business and casinos he had etc but it all seems to be telling old stories

Would the expectation be that he'd talk openly about Outfit shit to you or people that you know?

Of course not but he will talk old stories. Your guessing something based on something you read in some article. I said it’s possible he is but if he is he keeps it very low key. Your saying he’s the boss he wouldn’t get out after doing his time etc do you know him? What do you base your opinions besides gangster report? My guess based on factually based stuff is he is probably in some kind of adviser role very removed from day to day who’s consulted from time to time. His old running buddies are dead or very old. I challenge anyone to show one single thing of proof he’s the boss. And carparelli was a braggart throwing his name. And all he said was Solly was partners with Mickey and that was 8 years ago. Solly has tons of dough and is not Interested in going back to the can again I’m assuming that but based on facts. He’s like a typical grandpa talking about his grandkids etc. believe what you want tho some people wanna live in a fantasy world. Do you know island lake? It’s a little tiny town in lake county that’s where he lives and owns various businesses and properties. If gangster report was true and Dino mArino drives him around wouldn’t there be some proof of that? Go to his business any day I promise there’s a black jag in front and he’s in there working. The people who know, know, that’s good enough for me

Do you know if Solly still pals around with Bobby DeDomenico?

Nope I can’t say one way or another. I know during the day he’s at his business and I’ve never seen any outfit guys there. Also based on a few things it seems like he stays home at night but he’s worried about covid. Funny thing he was smoking like a chimney and said these cigarettes are gonna kill me well before this fucking corona lol. Maybe he’s just been laying low cuz he’s old and corona I don’t know. I only knew him since all this shit started so maybe I’m completely wrong and the only reason he doesn’t meet now is cuz of covid couldn’t say. I’ll never claim to know something I don’t. Again I have no inside info I know him casually and the only stuff he’s mentioned is old stuff. He’s just like you’d imagine tho he’s always hey pal how are you etc

[Pete]

IF theres still some top admin, then i bet my money that Cicero kept/keeps the number 1 spot, while Grand/EP comes second in line...that is obviously pure speculation, and as for guys like Solly D or Cataudella, IF they are still contacted regarding certain matters...and thats a big "if"...then they are probably senior advisors of sort

Few days ago i watched one old documentary regarding the commission trial and how the feds managed to bug their targets, and they also said that its not illegal to be a member of the Mafia unless that same individual did something wrong, like being involved in conspiracy. So later some goverment sources from the 90s said that the Mob (on national level) is slowly becoming a semi-legit enterprise that operates in a closed circle and its involved mostly in corruption...and to tell you the truth thats how i see todays Outfit

Agreed on this all the way. I know it's all speculation, but in the last ten years I believe we have enough indictments and cases to at least believe there is a smaller, streamlined outfit still in existence. If you take it to it's logical conclusion, most of these guys would be legit businessman, but that doesn't mean there can't be an outfit. Business still need financing and loans to get off the ground. Guys lending to other guys, utilizing political and law enforcement contacts to benefit when possible. That's the way any smart person would have gone in the last 30 years. On the fringes you still have all the old school street stuff happening with gambling, loansharking, burglary, all that stuff. Hell, we have enough cases with Grand Ave and Cicero in the past 5-10 years to prove that shit is still going on.

My bet...still a top admin. Just a different business model. Also...no way Solly D does all that time, is mentioned by Paulie K on wiretap in 2012, and spends all this time promoting a legit business (a front in my opinion), just to not get a taste of something nowadays. Senior Advisor/Top Boss, whatever you want to call it, makes sense to me. I guess Joe the Builder is still alive too...so he could be up there as well. Just like Johnny the Nose was "meeting old friends for pizza" during that ABC news piece in 2009. Yea freaking right. These dudes may mostly retire...but they are gangsters from a different time. This is their thing.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will say Solly lives very well he’s got a big black jaguar and the rolly on the wrist. But he also owns an entire block of businesses in island lake besides the carpet cleaning he has a bar as well as other stuff. Maybe he keeps it very low key but the only thing he talks about all the time is spending time with his kids and grandkids. He’s 80 something he’s not out and about he’s home at nights. He will talk openly about being in the gambling business and casinos he had etc but it all seems to be telling old stories

Would the expectation be that he'd talk openly about Outfit shit to you or people that you know?

Of course not but he will talk old stories. Your guessing something based on something you read in some article. I said it’s possible he is but if he is he keeps it very low key. Your saying he’s the boss he wouldn’t get out after doing his time etc do you know him? What do you base your opinions besides gangster report? My guess based on factually based stuff is he is probably in some kind of adviser role very removed from day to day who’s consulted from time to time. His old running buddies are dead or very old. I challenge anyone to show one single thing of proof he’s the boss. And carparelli was a braggart throwing his name. And all he said was Solly was partners with Mickey and that was 8 years ago. Solly has tons of dough and is not Interested in going back to the can again I’m assuming that but based on facts. He’s like a typical grandpa talking about his grandkids etc. believe what you want tho some people wanna live in a fantasy world. Do you know island lake? It’s a little tiny town in lake county that’s where he lives and owns various businesses and properties. If gangster report was true and Dino mArino drives him around wouldn’t there be some proof of that? Go to his business any day I promise there’s a black jag in front and he’s in there working. The people who know, know, that’s good enough for me

What exactly am I guessing? Quote me where I say he's not retired and running things. I don't know, I don't pretend to have first hand knowledge.

If you can't see a difference with him shooting the shit telling old stories and talking about being an OC chieftain right now I don't know what else to tell you.

Your dodging a question, wouldn’t him talking about being in the gambling business and running casinos be talking outfit business? Of course he’s never gonna admit there is an outfit or he’s a member but if he’s talking about outfit operations ie gambling he’s talking outfit business. Or am I incorrect? And most people wouldn’t discuss being in illegal activities with someone they know casually unless they are out, that’s common sense or maybe I’m reading too much into it I don’t wanna argue my underlying theme and the reason for all this is the outfit that is written about on certain in news articles doesn’t exist. We did a list not that long ago there’s less than 10 confirmed members who are still active. That’s confirmed guys, I think there are made guys like Dino mArino who’s active but he isn’t confirmed made at least to us as that’s never been revealed by le. The majority of outfit activity by far is associates. Solly d retired, spano out, Joey a retired, matassa retired, Pete difronzo, the list goes on. The only heavyweights mentioned that are still in are vena and Jimmy I and Carusos although I didn’t see much mention of them.

I'm not sure what your anecdotal story proves one way or the other. But you keep us updated on your daily conversations with Solly message board Pete.

Again as I said I have no inside info and I don’t wanna come off as pretending I do so if that’s the vibe I apologize. My point was just I don’t see the things mentioned on gangster report etc. I’m just making observations from seeing him around. He very well could be the boss and he just stays super low key who knows? Definitely not me. Once again the only point I’ve been trying to make is all these old timers identified as being in leadership seem retired to me and I think the younger associates are the really active ones. Another point I was trying to make is I don’t necessarily think someone who doesn’t know him or has been around him is the best source for info. I just see such a difference between certain reports and the real world. But once again maybe I’m 100% wrong and If I am I’m cool with that I’m not trying to prove anything

[SolarSolano]

I think its logical that Solly may have stepped back but keeps an interest in things or maybe just has a little money on the street that other guys are working for him. Jahoda had said that Solly was very observant of the mafia in NYC (he even reached out to Gravano to get Gotti's lawyer during the goodship lollipop indictments). I have to assume he read about Steve Crea, Matt Madona - all these old guys who have already lost decades behind bars now going back.

I also heard from a very reliable source that Solly blew his stack at his kid Vince over the Outfit facebook group a while back.

[funkster]

IF theres still some top admin, then i bet my money that Cicero kept/keeps the number 1 spot, while Grand/EP comes second in line...that is obviously pure speculation, and as for guys like Solly D or Cataudella, IF they are still contacted regarding certain matters...and thats a big "if"...then they are probably senior advisors of sort

Few days ago i watched one old documentary regarding the commission trial and how the feds managed to bug their targets, and they also said that its not illegal to be a member of the Mafia unless that same individual did something wrong, like being involved in conspiracy. So later some goverment sources from the 90s said that the Mob (on national level) is slowly becoming a semi-legit enterprise that operates in a closed circle and its involved mostly in corruption...and to tell you the truth thats how i see todays Outfit

Agreed on this all the way. I know it's all speculation, but in the last ten years I believe we have enough indictments and cases to at least believe there is a smaller, streamlined outfit still in existence. If you take it to it's logical conclusion, most of these guys would be legit businessman, but that doesn't mean there can't be an outfit. Business still need financing and loans to get off the ground. Guys lending to other guys, utilizing political and law enforcement contacts to benefit when possible. That's the way any smart person would have gone in the last 30 years. On the fringes you still have all the old school street stuff happening with gambling, loansharking, burglary, all that stuff. Hell, we have enough cases with Grand Ave and Cicero in the past 5-10 years to prove that shit is still going on.

My bet...still a top admin. Just a different business model. Also...no way Solly D does all that time, is mentioned by Paulie K on wiretap in 2012, and spends all this time promoting a legit business (a front in my opinion), just to not get a taste of something nowadays. Senior Advisor/Top Boss, whatever you want to call it, makes sense to me. I guess Joe the Builder is still alive too...so he could be up there as well. Just like Johnny the Nose was "meeting old friends for pizza" during that ABC news piece in 2009. Yea freaking right. These dudes may mostly retire...but they are gangsters from a different time. This is their thing.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I will say Solly lives very well he’s got a big black jaguar and the rolly on the wrist. But he also owns an entire block of businesses in island lake besides the carpet cleaning he has a bar as well as other stuff. Maybe he keeps it very low key but the only thing he talks about all the time is spending time with his kids and grandkids. He’s 80 something he’s not out and about he’s home at nights. He will talk openly about being in the gambling business and casinos he had etc but it all seems to be telling old stories

Would the expectation be that he'd talk openly about Outfit shit to you or people that you know?

Of course not but he will talk old stories. Your guessing something based on something you read in some article. I said it’s possible he is but if he is he keeps it very low key. Your saying he’s the boss he wouldn’t get out after doing his time etc do you know him? What do you base your opinions besides gangster report? My guess based on factually based stuff is he is probably in some kind of adviser role very removed from day to day who’s consulted from time to time. His old running buddies are dead or very old. I challenge anyone to show one single thing of proof he’s the boss. And carparelli was a braggart throwing his name. And all he said was Solly was partners with Mickey and that was 8 years ago. Solly has tons of dough and is not Interested in going back to the can again I’m assuming that but based on facts. He’s like a typical grandpa talking about his grandkids etc. believe what you want tho some people wanna live in a fantasy world. Do you know island lake? It’s a little tiny town in lake county that’s where he lives and owns various businesses and properties. If gangster report was true and Dino mArino drives him around wouldn’t there be some proof of that? Go to his business any day I promise there’s a black jag in front and he’s in there working. The people who know, know, that’s good enough for me

What exactly am I guessing? Quote me where I say he's not retired and running things. I don't know, I don't pretend to have first hand knowledge.

If you can't see a difference with him shooting the shit telling old stories and talking about being an OC chieftain right now I don't know what else to tell you.

Your dodging a question, wouldn’t him talking about being in the gambling business and running casinos be talking outfit business? Of course he’s never gonna admit there is an outfit or he’s a member but if he’s talking about outfit operations ie gambling he’s talking outfit business. Or am I incorrect? And most people wouldn’t discuss being in illegal activities with someone they know casually unless they are out, that’s common sense or maybe I’m reading too much into it I don’t wanna argue my underlying theme and the reason for all this is the outfit that is written about on certain in news articles doesn’t exist. We did a list not that long ago there’s less than 10 confirmed members who are still active. That’s confirmed guys, I think there are made guys like Dino mArino who’s active but he isn’t confirmed made at least to us as that’s never been revealed by le. The majority of outfit activity by far is associates. Solly d retired, spano out, Joey a retired, matassa retired, Pete difronzo, the list goes on. The only heavyweights mentioned that are still in are vena and Jimmy I and Carusos although I didn’t see much mention of them.

I'm not sure what your anecdotal story proves one way or the other. But you keep us updated on your daily conversations with Solly message board Pete.

Again as I said I have no inside info and I don’t wanna come off as pretending I do so if that’s the vibe I apologize. My point was just I don’t see the things mentioned on gangster report etc. I’m just making observations from seeing him around. He very well could be the boss and he just stays super low key who knows? Definitely not me. Once again the only point I’ve been trying to make is all these old timers identified as being in leadership seem retired to me and I think the younger associates are the really active ones. Another point I was trying to make is I don’t necessarily think someone who doesn’t know him or has been around him is the best source for info. I just see such a difference between certain reports and the real world. But once again maybe I’m 100% wrong and If I am I’m cool with that I’m not trying to prove anything

Fair enough.

[funkster]

As an aside to the earlier convo about Panozzo jr, I was over by HSAC yesterday and it appears someone spray painted some Cnote graffiti on the street next to it.