Chicago Making Ceremonies

[Confederate]

That's true, and "boss" was more prevalent in Chicago. But to state that they "never" used capo is disingenuous. Frank Sr. also uses it on the Jr. recordings.

I never said they didn't use the word "Capo" in addition to "Boss. I said that Rodgers never called Lombardo a "Caporegime" and the word "Caporegime is different than the word "Capo".

[Snakes]

Semantics.

[NothingNew44]

Keep it going

[Villain]

According to one document from 1974 all three bosses including Lombardo, Torello and Pilotto were labeled as capos by the feds who allegedly tried to keep the Outfit in one piece under Accardo. They obviously received the info from informant who possibly used the same term. In addition, this mid-level administration also included DiBella from the North Side who in turn constantly had meetings with the top guys such as Accardo, Aiuppa and Alex during the same time period

[aleksandrored]

I was confused, is there any difference in the term "boss" and "capo" from NY to Chicago?

[B.]

Historically, "capo" was used for the boss/rappresentante in the Sicilian and early US-Sicilian mafia. Capodecina was a term for captains. At some point, the US adopted the term caporegime/caporegima as a variation of capodecina while "capo" went out of use for boss, with capodecina/caporegime being shortened to "capo".

The area bosses of Chicago are equivalent to capodecina/caporegime. It seems in Chicago it became more common even within the organization to refer to capodecina as "boss". In New York you will occasionally see captains and even soldiers referred to as bosses, as they are the bosses of their crews/soldiers/associates, but it is used far less often and informally, not within the organization like in Chicago.

For the record, capodecina isn't a "New York term". It's a Sicilian mafia term that was used throughout the entire United States and Canada and is universally the same rank no matter which family we're referring to regardless of the word used. Of course not all captains are the same or even have crews, etc. but the rank itself is equivalent in the organization.

Great thread, by the way -- cool to see the known Chicago ceremonies broken down.

[Pete]

Historically, "capo" was used for the boss/rappresentante in the Sicilian and early US-Sicilian mafia. Capodecina was a term for captains. At some point, the US adopted the term caporegime/caporegima as a variation of capodecina while "capo" went out of use for boss, with capodecina/caporegime being shortened to "capo".

The area bosses of Chicago are equivalent to capodecina/caporegime. It seems in Chicago it became more common even within the organization to refer to capodecina as "boss". In New York you will occasionally see captains and even soldiers referred to as bosses, as they are the bosses of their crews/soldiers/associates, but it is used far less often and informally, not within the organization like in Chicago.

For the record, capodecina isn't a "New York term". It's a Sicilian mafia term that was used throughout the entire United States and Canada and is universally the same rank no matter which family we're referring to regardless of the word used. Of course not all captains are the same or even have crews, etc. but the rank itself is equivalent in the organization.

Great thread, by the way -- cool to see the known Chicago ceremonies broken down.

Chicago was using capo same as ny at least from the 80’s on. That’s the term Nick Calabrese used in his testimony. Outfit had boss underboss and capos no consigliere as confederate said

[aleksandrored]

Historically, "capo" was used for the boss/rappresentante in the Sicilian and early US-Sicilian mafia. Capodecina was a term for captains. At some point, the US adopted the term caporegime/caporegima as a variation of capodecina while "capo" went out of use for boss, with capodecina/caporegime being shortened to "capo".

The area bosses of Chicago are equivalent to capodecina/caporegime. It seems in Chicago it became more common even within the organization to refer to capodecina as "boss". In New York you will occasionally see captains and even soldiers referred to as bosses, as they are the bosses of their crews/soldiers/associates, but it is used far less often and informally, not within the organization like in Chicago.

For the record, capodecina isn't a "New York term". It's a Sicilian mafia term that was used throughout the entire United States and Canada and is universally the same rank no matter which family we're referring to regardless of the word used. Of course not all captains are the same or even have crews, etc. but the rank itself is equivalent in the organization.

Great thread, by the way -- cool to see the known Chicago ceremonies broken down.

Thanks for the explanation, I found it interesting to be the Sicilian Mafia and the use of "boss" is more common in Chicago to indicate capodecima.

[B.]

Jimmy Fratianno (who transferred to Chicago at one point) and Frank Bompensiero also referred to Chicago crew leaders as captains (or the equivalent "capo-").

[Antiliar]

Joseph Lombardo wasn't made in 1973, that's when he was promoted to caporegime to succeed Battaglia. Alva Johnson Rogers testified to this. It's suspected that he was made after the Manny Skar killing.

All that is true except Alva Johnson Rogers never referred to Lombardo as a "Caporegime". That is a New York term. Lombardo was referred to as a "Boss", meaning that he was one of the 4 big Territory Bosses. In the same way that Accardo was never called a "Consigliere". Those are New York terms being applied to these people according to Villain and my research.

I didn't say Alva Johnson Rogers used the word "caporegime," but that's the position he was promoted to and is the label that the feds use, so I used it for simplicity and not for semantic nit-picking.

As for the use of the word "caporegime," it was not commonly used but it was used sometimes: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... caporegime

The terms boss (of a crew), group leader, caporegime, capodecina, capo (of a crew), skipper, captain and lieutenant are all used interchangeably by the different Families. If someone from Chicago was telling a New York leader that someone was promoted to boss of a crew in the 1970s or earlier, he probably would use a term that New York used to explain. Some Families probably also had a preference whether to use the term "regime" or "decina" over "crew" or "group."

[SonnyBlackstein]

Joseph Lombardo wasn't made in 1973, that's when he was promoted to caporegime to succeed Battaglia. Alva Johnson Rogers testified to this. It's suspected that he was made after the Manny Skar killing.

All that is true except Alva Johnson Rogers never referred to Lombardo as a "Caporegime". That is a New York term. Lombardo was referred to as a "Boss", meaning that he was one of the 4 big Territory Bosses. In the same way that Accardo was never called a "Consigliere". Those are New York terms being applied to these people according to Villain and my research.

I didn't say Alva Johnson Rogers used the word "caporegime," but that's the position he was promoted to and is the label that the feds use, so I used it for simplicity and not for semantic nit-picking.

As for the use of the word "caporegime," it was not commonly used but it was used sometimes: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... caporegime

The terms boss (of a crew), group leader, caporegime, capodecina, capo (of a crew), skipper, captain and lieutenant are all used interchangeably by the different Families. If someone from Chicago was telling a New York leader that someone was promoted to boss of a crew in the 1970s or earlier, he probably would use a term that New York used to explain. Some Families probably also had a preference whether to use the term "regime" or "decina" over "crew" or "group."

Confed's point was well worth making and the opposite of 'nit-picking'.

The term boss vs Capodecina in the LCN world contains a world if difference in fact and implication.
Chicago is the bastard child and uses otherwise commonly know and understood terms in a very different fashion.
This deserves attention and his point is worth making.
Capo, Capodecina, Caporegime, skipper, lieutenant are interchangeable. Boss is not. Not one button in NYC has ever referred to his Capo as Boss, the same as not one associate has ever refereed to a button that way (when both using correct LCN parlance).
And he was right in making that distinction.
My opinion.

[Snakes]

If someone wants to make a thread about that, go right ahead. Try and keep your comments on the subject of Chicago guys and when they were made; these threads have a habit of deviating very quickly.

[Antiliar]

Confed's point was well worth making and the opposite of 'nit-picking'.

The term boss vs Capodecina in the LCN world contains a world if difference in fact and implication.
Chicago is the bastard child and uses otherwise commonly know and understood terms in a very different fashion.
This deserves attention and his point is worth making.
Capo, Capodecina, Caporegime, skipper, lieutenant are interchangeable. Boss is not. Not one button in NYC has ever referred to his Capo as Boss, the same as not one associate has ever refereed to a button that way (when both using correct LCN parlance).
And he was right in making that distinction.
My opinion.

"Not one button in NYC has ever referred to his Capo as Boss" <-- And you know this how?

On top of my head I can recall an informant calling Thomas "Tommy Palmer" Greco a boss even though he was not a head of a borgata, but you are free to believe what you want to believe.

[Villain]

And dont forget the capo squadrone term

In addition to the thread which was made by Snakes...

In 1928 Al Capone became a made member and instantly was elevated to capo decina and his sponsor was possibly Joe Masseria

In 1939 Sam Giancana became member before he went to prison. His sponsors were Louie Campagna and Frank Nitto. It is possible that Giancana had a similar faith as Capone, meaning after his release from prison, he was in charge of several areas or districts which in fact was the power of a capo or crew boss

In 1945 Butch Blasi allegedly became a made member and his sponsor was James Belcastro

Also heres something about the type of rituals or ceremonies which took place during the 60s. Ive already made a post about this some time ago but still here we go again...

This document is from 1963, and one secret informant known only as T-4 indicates that he wasn’t aware of any ritual or taking an oath regarding the membership for the Chicago “family”. He also indicates that one member is sponsored by a district boss or someone from higher stature and then, the new member was simply placed under the payroll of the same boss from whom he worked for. Another interesting thing is that this same informant was aware of all the money flow within the syndicate, especially that one half of the proceedings went “out West”, meaning the top administration from the West Side, and the rest went to the made guy and his district boss.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 9&tab=page

Another document and informant from 1963, states the same thing, meaning he wasn’t aware of any oaths or rituals during making ceremonies. Even though this might be the same previous informant, here we can see that he was close to Chuck English and that the informant’s father was a member of the old Capone organization and possible member of Cosa Nostra. The informant was also aware that his father wasn’t telling him everything, still he felt that with his childhood and current association with Chicago’s criminal element, he would’ve heard regarding some rituals or oaths.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 3&tab=page (page 3 and 4)


Now, here comes one detailed information from 1964 and another informant, named T-1, regarding the induction of new members within Chicago’s family and this time, he describes a detailed induction ceremony, where again the future member is usually sponsored by his boss or maybe few couple of friend who were already in “The Life”, also he talks about that same candidate being told a month earlier on where and which time he will be picked up and he also talks about a ceremony where a banquet was held and the new member took an oath of secrecy which included from that same moment, no outsider, nor mother or sister or brother can come before his colleagues in “The Life”. The informant also gave an example which occurred previous of 1963, or should I say in 1956. So, on the next page the informant gives us as an example the induction ceremony of two Outfit members which occurred in 1956, and later he also explains that for one to be member needs to be primary Italian, not Sicilian. In the end he talks about the non-Italians and their stature within the Chicago “family”.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 0&tab=page (page 10 and 11)

[CabriniGreen]

On the Boss or capo thing...

I would add that in Chicago, the politicians are like, another species of gangster. And in Chicago, the political bosses, are/ were, called bosses.

It was probably just adapted from the heavy interaction with politics.... just a thought...