Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[mobinfiltrator]

Welcome aboard detective ,

Did you ever deal with any of the American side Familes Detroit Cleveland Pittsburgh Detroit ?

Met some of the Buffalo wiseguys when they came over, but no ‘business’ dealins or even talk of business. That was all done in private and way above my standing.


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[John W]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



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Your saying Vito Rizzuto at one time answered to Buffalo?

[NickleCity]

WOW Papalia under Rizzuto who answered to Buffalo. Musitano offs Pops with Buffalo’s blessing. They kill Barilllaro... Buffalo will never give the a button. So they go to Rizzuto and get made. That means the 99 CISC report was right... that Buffalo controlled Hamilton, Toronto, and Montreal (I am assuming via proxy) through a shaking alliance. I take it that alliance fell apart as the Rizzutos grew in power. Coppola a Buffalo news reported was saying the family was decimated after the 210 union thing and they had no power in Canada that is why Pops got hit. How could journalist and LE on this side of the border have been that wrong and I guess continue to be today?

[mobinfiltrator]

WOW Papalia under Rizzuto who answered to Buffalo. Musitano offs Pops with Buffalo’s blessing. They kill Barilllaro... Buffalo will never give the a button. So they go to Rizzuto and get made. That means the 99 CISC report was right... that Buffalo controlled Hamilton, Toronto, and Montreal (I am assuming via proxy) through a shaking alliance. I take it that alliance fell apart as the Rizzutos grew in power. Coppola a Buffalo news reported was saying the family was decimated after the 210 union thing and they had no power in Canada that is why Pops got hit. How could journalist and LE on this side of the border have been that wrong and I guess continue to be today?

What 99 CISC report? I’m very interested if you would be kind enough.

The thing I will add is my CI was also, I strongly believe, involved in Papalia’s homicide.


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[Lupara]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo at the time for various reasons.

[John W]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



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Your saying Vito Rizzuto at one time answered to Buffalo?

+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Iv never seen that mentioned anywhere before or even considered the possibility of it, Iv always considered Montreal a New York satellite which gradually started to become more independent and eventually started doing it own thing

[mobinfiltrator]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Lupara]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, then it makes sense. Thank you for your generosity of sharing your insight here. Means a great deal.

[John W]

I thought that had to be a mistake, I just couldn’t see the Rizzutos answering to Buffalo and it never being mentioned anywhere

[mobinfiltrator]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, then it makes sense. Thank you for your generosity of sharing your insight here. Means a great deal.

You know, I really think Im going to learn far more about TOC than what I already know, so Im the one who’s greatful to be here.

I also know Jack Garcia, but I don’t think I’ll get him on a forum like this. He was a hang around with the Gambino’s for years, and probably more knowledgable than anyone else when it comes to wiseguys. Even more so than Pistone. Jack was Undercover FBI, went by the name ‘Jack Falcone’. So any Gambino related questions I’ll put to Jackie.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[John W]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



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+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


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Okay, then it makes sense. Thank you for your generosity of sharing your insight here. Means a great deal.

You know, I really think Im going to learn far more about TOC than what I already know, so Im the one who’s greatful to be here.

I also know Jack Garcia, but I don’t think I’ll get him on a forum like this. He was a hang around with the Gambino’s for years, and probably more knowledgable than anyone else when it comes to wiseguys. Even more so than Pistone. Jack was Undercover FBI, went by the name ‘Jack Falcone’. So any Gambino related questions I’ll put to Jackie.


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We all know who Jack Garcia/Falcone is, he almost got made into the Gambinos and put Greg DePalma away

[mobinfiltrator]

[quote="Moscone65"]I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


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So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


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Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, then it makes sense. Thank you for your generosity of sharing your insight here. Means a great deal.

You know, I really think Im going to learn far more about TOC than what I already know, so Im the one who’s greatful to be here.

I also know Jack Garcia, but I don’t think I’ll get him on a forum like this. He was a hang around with the Gambino’s for years, and probably more knowledgable than anyone else when it comes to wiseguys. Even more so than Pistone. Jack was Undercover FBI, went by the name ‘Jack Falcone’. So any Gambino related questions I’ll put to Jackie.


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We all know who Jack Garcia/Falcone is, he almost got made into the Gambinos and put Greg DePalma away[/quote]

Thats Jackie.


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[John W]

[quote=mobinfiltrator post_id=116386 time=1564259924 user_id=6191]
[quote="Moscone65"]I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Okay, then it makes sense. Thank you for your generosity of sharing your insight here. Means a great deal.

You know, I really think Im going to learn far more about TOC than what I already know, so Im the one who’s greatful to be here.

I also know Jack Garcia, but I don’t think I’ll get him on a forum like this. He was a hang around with the Gambino’s for years, and probably more knowledgable than anyone else when it comes to wiseguys. Even more so than Pistone. Jack was Undercover FBI, went by the name ‘Jack Falcone’. So any Gambino related questions I’ll put to Jackie.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

We all know who Jack Garcia/Falcone is, he almost got made into the Gambinos and put Greg DePalma away[/quote]

Thats Jackie.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
[/quote]

He actually mentions in his book that he joined the Real Deal forum and leaned a lot about the mob from us which was the forerunner to this forum and where lots of the members here came from

[NickleCity]

WOW Papalia under Rizzuto who answered to Buffalo. Musitano offs Pops with Buffalo’s blessing. They kill Barilllaro... Buffalo will never give the a button. So they go to Rizzuto and get made. That means the 99 CISC report was right... that Buffalo controlled Hamilton, Toronto, and Montreal (I am assuming via proxy) through a shaking alliance. I take it that alliance fell apart as the Rizzutos grew in power. Coppola a Buffalo news reported was saying the family was decimated after the 210 union thing and they had no power in Canada that is why Pops got hit. How could journalist and LE on this side of the border have been that wrong and I guess continue to be today?

What 99 CISC report? I’m very interested if you would be kind enough.

The thing I will add is my CI was also, I strongly believe, involved in Papalia’s homicide.


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It was posted by antimafia on the Buffalo Toronto thread:

Link farther below is to an Evernote item containing a ProQuest article I saved just a couple of years ago, but the article itself is dated August 21, 1999. The initialism CISC, which stands for Criminal Intelligence Service Canada, is elaborated in the article. I've never known what to make of this story and I've never asked anyone's opinion about this intelligence -- whether the intelligence was way off base, had at least a little bit of merit, was a CISC brain fart, and so on.

Please feel free to save the article to your own Evernote account or locally on your laptop/notebook, tablet, smartphone, desktop PC, etc. However, please refrain from publicly sharing the article on the Net, and this includes sharing it on another forum. I recommend you save the article ASAP, as any edit I make to this Evernote item in the future will result in the link below no longer working.

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s229/sh/ ... c350b448f1

[Moscone65]

So the papalias paid up to the rizzutos and not buffalo?