Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Cheech]

Apparently you're more impressed with the Buffalo media's regurgitation of old articles, and the arrest of a strip club owner pushing drugs and underage girls, than I am.

Honestly, at this point I couldn't care any less.

Fuckin A...Seriously

Cabrini....I wouldt engage him any longer on the subject. i know im not. you have already said the truest statement in the whole thread about him

you dont debate in good faith.

[Cheech]

Todaro is regional representative of the network. This is why Morena's cooperation revealed that Todaro was bothered nobody told him Iavarone was a made member of the LA family operating in his region. Not so he can demand tribute, but so he knows what is going on.

completely agree

[NickleCity]

Gerace is addicted to Facebook. His last post was on February 28 and was simply this photo from Florida:

Also funny that Matt Ricchiazzi from the Buffalo Chronicle has offered to help Gerace tell his story"




La Nova has always been one of the big advertisers along with Smokin' Joe on the reservation in Niagara County. Matt has a habit of defending the family. I wrote this a few months ago:

Interesting^^

Matt Ricchiazzi is quite the character in Buffalo. It’s, also, interesting to see the history of advertisers on his site. Until recently one of the advertisers on all the subpages was prominent on the front for years as well. Matt has regularly defended that family and their business against OC connections on social media and in reply to news articles.

[Cheech]

good stuff nicklecity but it all seems so loosely connected.

[Cheech]

You get the feeling if we end up with a list of 28 confirmed members, the argument becomes "But it's not 30!"

you aint the only one getting that feeling.

[Angelo Santino]

There's a reason, he feels that if this turns out to be true then his activity-viability argument will have been discredited and everyone will jump out of the woodwork to argue that their local crime families are still up and running. I don't agree with the theory as measuring tool of a group's existance but feel its a good way to measure an LCN group's activity.. But he could turn it around and argue that "once Buffalo was reconstituted, the feds were on them in several years" which would confirm his argument.

In the end, the mob doesn't care what we think of it, they do what they do and we as researchers, observers and whatnot follow along.

[Angelo Santino]

There's no Mafia quota for crime, no prerequisite that they have to leave bodies in the street. Granted it's usually a byproduct of their operations but not always. Chances are Buffalo was never dead. Made members thrive on connections and congregation. We on the board that looked at Todaro's businesses and concluded he "wouldn't want the headache" fail to recognize the Mafia as a subculture and not just an organization made popular by Godfather and the Sopranos. These aren't so much Crime Families as they are Families willing to resort to Crime. What's the difference? Unlike other OC groups that specialize and are joined together for a criminal endeavor, Sicilians have a 200-year old Tradition or confraternity that they are carrying on that involves kinship, intermarriages and hometown origins. This is so much more than just a gang or a highly organized criminal outfit that hierarchies and "criminal viability" misses the whole point.

[Wiseguy]

It has been established. By the FBI who have an indictment and are investigating the Buffalo Family. These are your rules I'm quoting, broheim. To argue that this is all circumstantial is quite a Dan-like argument to make.

How many times do I (or others) have to repeat that we've seen several examples of residual mob activity (cases, new members inducted, etc.) after a family is defunct? How...many...times? Other than perhaps the media hype around it, how has Buffalo proven to be any different? People in this thread have incorrectly stated that "nothing was happening up until 2014" or whenever in an effort to show a contrast between then and now. That's not entirely correct. As in other places, we still saw minor, ad-hoc residual activity in Buffalo. Much of it, as the FBI stated, "loosely connected individuals committing Mafia-style crimes." I have a list going back to 2000. When we honestly consider this, there simply being an investigation or even an indictment no more automatically establishes what you guys or the media are alleging - the existence of a reestablished formally structured, active LCN family in Buffalo - than similar investigations and even indictments have elsewhere. This is not me "not debating in good faith" or trying to move the goal posts in a vain effort to save my ego. It's what I've been saying from the start.

While I didn't agree it amounted to what some allege, at least with Violi we could establish a real connection to the Buffalo LCN. What we've seen so far in the cases revolving around Bongiovanni is the very definition of circumstantial. For those who need a reminder, circumstantial evidence "relies on an inference to connect it to a conclusion of fact." People see two of Todaro's nephews and a few other associates busted as part of an investigation into "Italian Organized Crime" in Western New York, and infer this must mean their and the media's theories of a resurgent, reorganized Buffalo LCN family must be true.

I'm happy to let the prosecution make their case. Don't forget, 99.9% of the time, I'm right there with the prosecution. But it's a high bar if they want to take this to the next level. It's going to take more than vague references to "Italian Organized Crime" in Western New York. For example, we know the Geraces are Todaro's nephews. But is their blood relation to him the extent of the connection to the Buffalo LCN or is there more? Show evidence they (and the others identified as "associates") were conducting their crimes sponsored by, and in behalf of, a larger criminal enterprise. Not simply criminals, with some loose connection to the LCN, committing their own crimes.

Some people here, perhaps in a desire to prematurely claim a victory of sorts, seem all to happy to rush into believing the media hype surrounding this. And, in the long run, it's going to bite them in the ass.

It’s an ego thing and not worth arguing about lol but we do have it from Canada and now the Feds that there is active Italian Organized Crime in WNY. That’s all that matters. The next 12-24 mo could he interesting as it seems the Feds have committed real resources to this case. This is just the beginning of learning more.

Pretty incredible how on the $ Nickle was , same with CC and B, nice work guys.

There's always been active "Italian organized crime" in Western New York. Because of the geographic proximity, Italian OC groups from Canada moving drugs across the border through the region. Also some remnants of the Buffalo LCN engaging in residual crimes. But that doesn't automatically equate to a defunct Buffalo LCN family reorganizing/reactivating itself back into existence.

Apparently you're more impressed with the Buffalo media's regurgitation of old articles, and the arrest of a strip club owner pushing drugs and underage girls, than I am.

Honestly, at this point I couldn't care any less.

Fuckin A...Seriously

Cabrini....I wouldt engage him any longer on the subject. i know im not. you have already said the truest statement in the whole thread about him

you dont debate in good faith.

Maybe if you guys learned to friggin' read. Seriously, I wonder how closely you guys have actually read my posts, or Pogo's posts, explaining all this. Do you guys actually take the time to read them or do you just briefly scan? I ask because we've had to repeat the same points so many times in this thread that you guys either aren't reading them or your reading comprehension sucks. Or you conveniently ignore them because that's easier to do than responding to them.

You get the feeling if we end up with a list of 28 confirmed members, the argument becomes "But it's not 30!"

you aint the only one getting that feeling.

Not at all. The difference between the confirmed members we can identify and the 30+ members cited by Violi is about 20 members. I've never asked that every last one of them be named. But it's only fair we get a sizeable list like we have with any other viable family, no? Especially if people want to allege the highly improbable - that the family has reestablished itself and made new members in large numbers.

But, just so there's no confusion, I'm talking positively identified. The same with any other family. The prosecution alleges someone is a "made" or formally inducted member, I'll believe it. But the media throwing around the the term generically, as it tends to do, isn't going to cut it. A law enforcement memo alleging a guy as "an associate or possible member" isn't going to but it. Especially when we're only talking about a single guy.

There's no Mafia quota for crime, no prerequisite that they have to leave bodies in the street. Granted it's usually a byproduct of their operations but not always. Chances are Buffalo was never dead. Made members thrive on connections and congregation. We on the board that looked at Todaro's businesses and concluded he "wouldn't want the headache" fail to recognize the Mafia as a subculture and not just an organization made popular by Godfather and the Sopranos. These aren't so much Crime Families as they are Families willing to resort to Crime. What's the difference? Unlike other OC groups that specialize and are joined together for a criminal endeavor, Sicilians have a 200-year old Tradition or confraternity that they are carrying on that involves kinship, intermarriages and hometown origins. This is so much more than just a gang or a highly organized criminal outfit that hierarchies and "criminal viability" misses the whole point.

We've discussed this before. In a purely theoretical, academic sense, you may be correct. But in more practical, real world terms - especially for the points argued here - the connection between ongoing crimes and a viable Mafia family is undeniable.

[cavita]

If it gets too exasperating to be trumpeting the cause, then don't. You absolutely do not need to have the final say.

[Wiseguy]

If it gets too exasperating to be trumpeting the cause, then don't. You absolutely do not need to have the final say.

At a certain point, that is good advice. Like I said before, with enough time, truth will cut it's own way.

I've explained the criteria that would be needed for me to believe the Buffalo LCN has reactivated and reorganized itself back into a viable criminal organization. To prove that it's not just residual activity from a defunct family that we've seen in several other places.

[Gabagool718]

“At Gerace’s detention hearing Monday, federal prosecutors in New York and Gerace’s defense attorney revealed that they’d struck a deal that would allow the accused mobster to walk free without paying any bond.” Could this be a sign that he is cooperating???

[Wiseguy]

Also, the Todaros are doing more than just selling pizzas:

(It knocked my socks off, TBH. When B. spoke of the Diplomat hotel I had this idea of a 2 or 3 star 3-4 story hotel. I looked it up and goddamn! When's the last time a New York member or boss owned something of this size?)

Should say, it was Ron Fino who said the Diplomat was controlled by the Todaros. They certainly held court and conducted affairs there for many years according to multiple sources. Among those who met with Joe Todaro Sr. there were Bonanno soldier Steve Maruca, Colombo soldier Joe Gorgone, and the Philly administration. Todaro Jr. was there for the Gorgone / Philly meet.

I'm not positive where the ownership sits today, only that the hotel was historically controlled by them and Todaro was overheard in his interview in recent years saying he owns a hotel in Florida. At one point they owned/controlled multiple Florida hotels. Sammy Gravano says he met with both Todaros in their hotel in Florida though not sure he specified Diplomat.

Just want to make sure to keep that point clear since we've all had a little bit of fun in this thread alongside the reality that the Todaros are successful businessmen who run the Buffalo mafia family.

I have no doubt the Todaros are millionaires. Certainly possible they have money invested in hotel property. But owning that hotel outright, LOL, I don't think so.



$800 MILLION SALE OF SECOND LARGEST HOTEL IN SOUTH FLORIDA FALLS THROUGH
ProfileMiami
May 19, 2020

An $800 million deal between Jeffrey Soffer’s Fontainebleau Development and Brookfield Property Partner’s Diplomat Beach Resort Hollywood was called off on May 8 as the effects of COVID-19 on South Florida’s hotel and tourism industries continues to cause havoc. The 1,000 room Diplomat Beach Resort Hollywood, located at 3555 South Ocean Drive in Hollywood, FL, is the second largest hotel in South Florida following Soffer’s 1,600 room Fontainebleau Miami Beach, whose $975 million CMBS loan entered special servicing in March 2020. Fontainebleau Development is reportedly still in discussions with Brookfield Property Partners and may revisit the acquisition in the future.

The Diplomat Beach Resort Hollywood was first marketed for sale in January 2019 asking $1 billion, $1 million per room. Brookfield Property Partners, which is the real estate division of the Toronto-based Brookfield Asset Management, acquired the hotel for $460 million in 2014 and rebranded the flag from a Westin hotel to a Curio Collection by Hilton. In 2017 Brookfield completed a $100 million renovation and in September 2019 led a $168 million refinancing of the hotel with the funding provided by Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan and Wells Fargo.

http://profilemiamire.com/miamirealesta ... ls-through

[Snakes]

Nevermind lol

[Wiseguy]

Incidentally, Nickle posted the superseding indictment against Bongiovanni, Gerace, etc. in the FBI Files section. I'd invite anyone to read it.

viewtopic.php?f=44&t=7385

[calabrianwatch]

Hi all, watching this space for a bit to learn from you all (I am more into the Calabrian stuff over to Canada and Europe) - by the way this could be Sergi's response to the issue discussed here a few days back. https://twitter.com/annasergi/status/13 ... 51392?s=20