Interestingly Buffalo didn't have a single member source cooperating during that period. The best source the FBI had was the Magaddino bug, but aside from identifying the leadership and Magaddino's inner circle, relatively few members were identified in what was then a large, sprawling family. It's true some families were thoroughly compromised, but others like Buffalo had no member CIs.Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:05 pm As for member sources we only recently learned that back in the 1960s and early 1970s about half the members in SF and SJ were cooperating, including the former SF Boss. Same for the member informants in all the other families across the country including some pretty surprising names. We only know this stuff now because files from the 1960s were finally made available. We have yet to see a similar document dump for the 1980s-2010s. Though we can safely say that this period too would be riddled with confidential member informants across the country. We recently just learned, by accident, that the recent Chicago Boss John DiFronzo was most likely cooperating.
So we can safely assume that LE's public statments on the Buffalo membership and overall state from the 1980s-present is based on equally credible sources.
It would be great news if we eventually find out the FBI's info on Buffalo from recent decades has been reinforced by a longtime member CI. Without knowing that for sure, we can't "safely" assume anything, though.
Right now we have the Buffalo underboss on tape with a Bonanno member implying the family had around 30 people when he was promoted. If more information surfaces later (and I sincerely hope it does) that conflicts or confirms Violi's comment, I will be happy either way because all I'm interested in is the truth of the situation, or as close as we can get to it.
Very little has been made publicly available from the Morena investigation. We've seen only a few snippets of a deep investigation and those few snippets have already turned the entire Buffalo-Ontario discussion upside down and raised interesting questions about the Bonanno family and Montreal. Another snippet about an Ontario guy being "straightened out" by another US family came out and it had similar impact. We don't know who and what else was identified during the investigation.
Do you mean when NYC didn't make guys for nearly 15 years beginning in 1931 and eventually held mass inductions in the 1950s, resulting in internal controversy for the entire mafia that had to be addressed at a national meeting of all families?
Or when they didn't make guys for 19 years between 1957 and 1976 and held mass inductions throughout the 1970s and 80s?
Or when Valachi said the NYC families closed the books for a substantial period of time before he was made pre-1930?
Or when the Colombo family wasn't allowed to make any members from 1991-2000 and made up for lost time afterward?
Or when Philadelphia members complained that Angelo Bruno barely inducted any members from the mid-1960s until his 1980 death, to be followed by Scarfo holding mass inductions?
Or when Dallas didn't make any members for almost forty years then finally made a new group right when they were on the verge of dying out?
Or when New Orleans didn't induct many members for decades and decided to open their books in 1968 when they were down to 5 members?
"That's ancient history!"
The mafia has a long tradition of closing its books for substantial periods of time and letting its membership thin out only to resume inductions, assuming that's what happened in this case. I'd just as well believe they made a few members here and there all along and inside sources haven't been available to confirm.
I'm comfortable not knowing the exact reason Buffalo might have had 30 members in the mid-2010s and hope someday we find out more that confirms or conflicts with Violi's claim.
I don't see you doing much discussion at all aside from trying to shut other people down when they try to discuss publicly available information.
What you're saying, and are constantly saying, is much more like the radical leftists you hate who need to control and demean to get their way. Except in this case you don't get your way. You don't achieve any goal, which is why I asked what yours is.
