Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Dave65827]

Here we go boys.....get one to flip and we'll know the whole sha bang.

According to the article one of the Divorced wives who was apparently involved/has knowledge of the activities is cooperating while being sued by her husband

[Wiseguy]

Of all the mob related accounts I follow on social media, Buffalo is the talk of the town today because of this article.

That's part of the problem. The extension of many people's knowledge about the mob, including some who consider themselves mob followers, doesn't go beyond the next news headline.

Whether there’s a buffalo mob or not I’m interested on what Todaro’s been doing.

D0CmLlbX4AA_Jgt.jpg

Wiretaps are enough and we have that. The mafia does things illegally, but maybe we're looking too hard for a criminal operation as opposed to an organization that is open to criminality. The former suggests a Wire/Chris kicking up weekly to Paulie while the latter suggests a group that goes outside the law to protect the economic interests of its members.

Again, where is the organization? And what members are we talking about?

[Angelo Santino]

The organization appears to be HQ'd in Florida, with a stated 30 members in Buffalo and Ontario. The wiretaps picked up its underboss Violi as well as Bonanno members discussing it.

I can't have this debate again with you. We're at 261 pages and we've been over this ad nauseum at least three times.

[Wiseguy]

The organization appears to be HQ'd in Florida, with a stated 30 members in Buffalo and Ontario. The wiretaps picked up its underboss Violi as well as Bonanno members discussing it.

I can't have this debate again with you. We're at 261 pages and we've been over this ad nauseum at least three times.

I didn't exactly start my day wanting to tread old ground again either. That said, if such a 30 member, 1,300 mile-spanning organization exists, it's something apart from the Buffalo LCN.

[Angelo Santino]

The organization appears to be HQ'd in Florida, with a stated 30 members in Buffalo and Ontario. The wiretaps picked up its underboss Violi as well as Bonanno members discussing it.

I can't have this debate again with you. We're at 261 pages and we've been over this ad nauseum at least three times.

I didn't exactly start my day wanting to tread old ground again either. That said, if such a 30 member, 1,300 mile-spanning organization exists, it's something apart from the Buffalo LCN.

Not really, not anymore than NY having crews in LA made them 2000 mile orgs or Merlino living in FL makes Philadelphia a 1400 mile org, counting Boston to West Palm. Now you will respond along the lines of: Great! So now we're comparing Buffalo to NY and Philadelphia are we!????? Yeah we are. It's the same organization and they adhere to a shared set of protocol and operandi.

[SantoClaus]

The organization appears to be HQ'd in Florida, with a stated 30 members in Buffalo and Ontario. The wiretaps picked up its underboss Violi as well as Bonanno members discussing it.

I can't have this debate again with you. We're at 261 pages and we've been over this ad nauseum at least three times.

I didn't exactly start my day wanting to tread old ground again either. That said, if such a 30 member, 1,300 mile-spanning organization exists, it's something apart from the Buffalo LCN.

Commission? has that been mentioned in recent times?

[Grouchy Sinatra]

Of all the mob related accounts I follow on social media, Buffalo is the talk of the town today because of this article.

That's part of the problem. The extension of many people's knowledge about the mob, including some who consider themselves mob followers, doesn't go beyond the next news headline.

Whether there’s a buffalo mob or not I’m interested on what Todaro’s been doing.

D0CmLlbX4AA_Jgt.jpg

Wiretaps are enough and we have that. The mafia does things illegally, but maybe we're looking too hard for a criminal operation as opposed to an organization that is open to criminality. The former suggests a Wire/Chris kicking up weekly to Paulie while the latter suggests a group that goes outside the law to protect the economic interests of its members.

Again, where is the organization? And what members are we talking about?

Stop being a hater, Wiseguy!

Buffalo's back!

[Wiseguy]

Not saying I completely adhere to or understand it, but I'll repost this since it seems fitting...

figure-fig1 (1).jpg

So I emailed Anna Sergi, who most will remember came out with that report on the New York families not long ago, and asked her why she characterized the Todaro family of Buffalo as once being a part of La Cosa Nostra.


This was her response -

(Edit by CC - Ms. Sergi doesn't want her responses posted verbatim.)

1 It's a broad subject.
2 The local phenomenon is a "social construction."
3 What exists today in Buffalo is a "new hybrid" between the Mafia and Ndrangheta and is "more fluid these days."

[elasticman]

Not saying I completely adhere to or understand it, but I'll repost this since it seems fitting...



figure-fig1 (1).jpg



So I emailed Anna Sergi, who most will remember came out with that report on the New York families not long ago, and asked her why she characterized the Todaro family of Buffalo as once being a part of La Cosa Nostra.


This was her response -

"Sorry the question is way too broad and would require a lot more background. LCN is a social construction these days - it has changed from what it used to be - the mafia families such as the Todaro were once allied to what used to be LCN and today are engrained in the new hybrid order between LCN ‘ndrangheta and whoever else - things are way more fluid these days."

This is my first comment here, so be gentle! And from what I've seen lurking you're far more knowledgeable about Italian organized crime than I am!

That being said, this seems like a kind of strange distinction to make. I think when people say the Buffalo crime family is active, they mean that there is a group of Italian American criminals active in Buffalo, with a hierarchical structure, "made" members, and so on. It seems the weight of the evidence suggests this is what we have, correct?

[Wiseguy]

That being said, this seems like a kind of strange distinction to make. I think when people say the Buffalo crime family is active, they mean that there is a group of Italian American criminals active in Buffalo, with a hierarchical structure, "made" members, and so on. It seems the weight of the evidence suggests this is what we have, correct?

Remember what I said about adding 1+1+1 and saying it equals 10?

Yes, we have Italian criminals. A couple are nephews of Todaro but there actually being any real connection between their drug trafficking and him is speculative. A couple others guys, also Italian, are alleged to be Buffalo mob associates. Of course, "associate" can be a pretty broad term in how it's applied. And their drug trafficking being a part of a structured, active family - especially considering the past 20 years - is also speculative.

That's the first 1.

You mentioned a hierarchical structure. I'll ask again, where's the hierarchy? In mob cases in New York and some other places, you can see a clear, functioning hierarchy. Where do we really see this in Buffalo? While bosses get put away left and right, Todaro is really overseeing his own criminal organization from La Nova all these years with nary a scrape beyond some bad press? Nobody denies he is the titular boss. But there's little evidence it goes beyond that.

Then we have Violi. He gets made and then, two seconds later, gets made underboss. What's more likely? That he really beat out 30 other guys, presumably with more seniority; or that he didn't have much competition to begin with, considering just about everyone else was old and inactive?

Working our way down this hierarchy, who are the captains? Surely a 30+ member organization must have a few? The only guy identified as one is 82 year old Rocco Luppino, who lives in Hamilton - not Buffalo - and doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. There's your hierarchy.

That's the second 1.

You mentioned "made members." You said this is your first post so let's review the known facts. In 1989 the FBI had the family at 45 made members. In 1997 the Hamilton PD at the family at 34 made members. In 2006 the FBI had the family at 23 made members. See a pattern there?

The list of known living made members is now at 12. If we take Violi's taped conversation at face value, there's 20 other members floating around out there. Why haven't any of them been identified? Moreover, at what point did this organization - all but moribund for 20 years - suddenly start making guys in droves? And, if the recruitment pool is there, why weren't they doing so all along? Let's not forget that there's been past examples of mob guys citing inflated figures.

That's the third 1.

[Patrickgold]

That being said, this seems like a kind of strange distinction to make. I think when people say the Buffalo crime family is active, they mean that there is a group of Italian American criminals active in Buffalo, with a hierarchical structure, "made" members, and so on. It seems the weight of the evidence suggests this is what we have, correct?

Remember what I said about adding 1+1+1 and saying it equals 10?

Yes, we have Italian criminals. A couple are nephews of Todaro but there actually being any real connection between their drug trafficking and him is speculative. A couple others guys, also Italian, are alleged to be Buffalo mob associates. Of course, "associate" can be a pretty broad term in how it's applied. And their drug trafficking being a part of a structured, active family - especially considering the past 20 years - is also speculative.

That's the first 1.

You mentioned a hierarchical structure. I'll ask again, where's the hierarchy? In mob cases in New York and some other places, you can see a clear, functioning hierarchy. Where do we really see this in Buffalo? While bosses get put away left and right, Todaro is really overseeing his own criminal organization from La Nova all these years with nary a scrape beyond some bad press? Nobody denies he is the titular boss. But there's little evidence it goes beyond that.

Then we have Violi. He gets made and then, two seconds later, gets made underboss. What's more likely? That he really beat out 30 other guys, presumably with more seniority; or that he didn't have much competition to begin with, considering just about everyone else was old and inactive?

Working our way down this hierarchy, who are the captains? Surely a 30+ member organization must have a few? The only guy identified as one is 82 year old Rocco Luppino, who lives in Hamilton - not Buffalo - and doesn't seem to be doing much of anything. There's your hierarchy.

That's the second 1.

You mentioned "made members." You said this is your first post so let's review the known facts. In 1989 the FBI had the family at 45 made members. In 1997 the Hamilton PD at the family at 34 made members. In 2006 the FBI had the family at 23 made members. See a pattern there?

The list of known living made members is now at 12. If we take Violi's taped conversation at face value, there's 20 other members floating around out there. Why haven't any of them been identified? Moreover, at what point did this organization - all but moribund for 20 years - suddenly start making guys in droves? And, if the recruitment pool is there, why weren't they doing so all along? Let's not forget that there's been past examples of mob guys citing inflated figures.

That's the third 1.

It’s not the first time someone was made and was given a high position in a family. If i remember correctly, Ralph Natale was made right before he was made boss of the Philly organization. I’m sure there are other examples that I can’t seem to pinpoint right now.

[Angelo Santino]

Not saying I completely adhere to or understand it, but I'll repost this since it seems fitting...



figure-fig1 (1).jpg



So I emailed Anna Sergi, who most will remember came out with that report on the New York families not long ago, and asked her why she characterized the Todaro family of Buffalo as once being a part of La Cosa Nostra.


This was her response -

"Sorry the question is way too broad and would require a lot more background. LCN is a social construction these days - it has changed from what it used to be - the mafia families such as the Todaro were once allied to what used to be LCN and today are engrained in the new hybrid order between LCN ‘ndrangheta and whoever else - things are way more fluid these days."

Thank you for posting this. Yeah, I had to read it several times as well. It sounds like she's saying the Todaros are part of a new hybrid mafia-ndrangheta, hence the "former LCN." It's the same argument people make in regards to US groups before 1931. What she is not saying is that the Todaros no longer view themselves as LCN.

I see this argument as limited, much like Lee LaMothe's the 6th Family that argued in very vague terms, the Rizzuto's "true" place in the world. Without informants, outsiders are left to fill in the narrative based on what they observe which isn't very accurate. The limits of academia.

In my opinion, the simplest explanation is likely the most accurate: Mafia and 'Ndrangheta groups work together, and the Todaros/Buffalo are still a factor in that.

Again, thanks for posting that.

Also, here's Todaro's hotel in Florida- the Diplomat. Not too shabby:
https://www.diplomatresort.com/

[CabriniGreen]

Not saying I completely adhere to or understand it, but I'll repost this since it seems fitting...



figure-fig1 (1).jpg



So I emailed Anna Sergi, who most will remember came out with that report on the New York families not long ago, and asked her why she characterized the Todaro family of Buffalo as once being a part of La Cosa Nostra.


This was her response -

"Sorry the question is way too broad and would require a lot more background. LCN is a social construction these days - it has changed from what it used to be - the mafia families such as the Todaro were once allied to what used to be LCN and today are engrained in the new hybrid order between LCN ‘ndrangheta and whoever else - things are way more fluid these days."

Thank you for posting this. Yeah, I had to read it several times as well. It sounds like she's saying the Todaros are part of a new hybrid mafia-ndrangheta, hence the "former LCN." It's the same argument people make in regards to US groups before 1931. What she is not saying is that the Todaros no longer view themselves as LCN.

I see this argument as limited, much like Lee LaMothe's the 6th Family that argued in very vague terms, the Rizzuto's "true" place in the world. Without informants, outsiders are left to fill in the narrative based on what they observe which isn't very accurate. The limits of academia.

In my opinion, the simplest explanation is likely the most accurate: Mafia and 'Ndrangheta groups work together, and the Todaros/Buffalo are still a factor in that.

Again, thanks for posting that.

Also, here's Todaro's hotel in Florida- the Diplomat. Not too shabby:
https://www.diplomatresort.com/

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. The great debate was what were the Violis; Mafia or Ndrangheta.

I originally thought they gravitated towards Ndrangheta based off their extensive narcotics trafficking, relations to the Commissos, and the history of the Luppinos. Many pegged them Bonnanos based on their pressence at the Bonnano ceremony. But my thinking was, Massino or Violi, or SOMEONE would have mentioned these guys. I mean JDs notes, all the rats n wires, all the made guys clocked and placed in charts, these kids were nowhere to be seen anywhere.

I always thought if they were LCN, it would have been through Buffalo based on their family, but the collective thoughts on the board was there wasnt any Buffalo family anymore. So I dismissed that idea, and I was thinking, ok, they must be Ndrangheta........

They had the Cosa Nostra part right, what NO ONE saw coming was that they were made by Buffalo, but it really should have been the first guess.

No one BUT Massino could have made them into the Bonnanos, he didnt or hasn't mentioned them, that I know of....same with Cicale....or Vitale when he visited Canada ... .

The burning question for me is WHY NOW? What's special about the Violis? What's special about Hamilton?
They let the Musitanos run roughshod all over their regime.... why try to fix it NOW?

Taking it further, why didnt they make the Musitanos? Did they try, and the Luppinos knocked it down? Did the Bonnanos allow or sanction this Musitano incursion? Hootie on that Button n MBA pod had a quick reference to the "Maggadino" and how they were with the Bonnanos. Was the Violi pressence at a Bonnano ceremony a kind of formal reconciliation? An acknowledgment of a past mistake, that they were attempting to rectify? Solidified through a ceremonial tie in, as well as a new joint narcotics venture, serving as a foundation to RE-BUILD on, ties to bikers, other mobsters and crime groups, with the glue between Canada and New York being Morena?

I wonder how the Violis felt about the Scoppas... hell I wonder how the Bonnanos felt about the Scoppas.....

[CabriniGreen]

Not saying I completely adhere to or understand it, but I'll repost this since it seems fitting...



figure-fig1 (1).jpg



So I emailed Anna Sergi, who most will remember came out with that report on the New York families not long ago, and asked her why she characterized the Todaro family of Buffalo as once being a part of La Cosa Nostra.


This was her response -

"Sorry the question is way too broad and would require a lot more background. LCN is a social construction these days - it has changed from what it used to be - the mafia families such as the Todaro were once allied to what used to be LCN and today are engrained in the new hybrid order between LCN ‘ndrangheta and whoever else - things are way more fluid these days."

I dont know why you have such a hard on for this lady. She doesnt pretend to BE an LCN expert. Her expertise is Ndrangheta, specifically Australia.

I'm pretty sure she spoke to the FBI and they told her, theres no Buffalo mafia. Then she spoke to the RCMP and they told her, theres a Buffalo mafia. Because she covets these contacts, she split the baby, played a little politics, so as not to embarrass anyone, and called it a crime family, no longer LCN. What the fuck else COULD you call it? The Violi-Luppino family/clan? What does that even mean? Narco-clan like the Scoppas? But Independent? Its basically indistinguishable from an Ndrine, but this mere comparison actually BOTHERS people, lol.....

This is the shit she was trying to provide an explanation for.

I think it telling the journalist finally felt comfortable to make this front page news.... they must feel where theres smike, there might be a LITTLE fire, just a spark, lol

[NickleCity]

From today’s front page below the fold in The Buffalo News:

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4th story in the Buffalo Mob in two days.