Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[TommyNoto]

Morena actually was supposed to be in charge of transport, I'm guessing getting the coke from NY, or wherever it was supposed to land to Hamilton....

So yeah, drugs played a big factor....


https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2018/0 ... -case.html

What’s very interesting is the Buffalo crew had the ability to buy 300 kilos on consignment direct from Columbia so this wasn’t their first major purchase. Who in NYC could pull that off ? Combine that with the potential to have a DEA agent on payroll ( almost no org can pull that off ) and one can start to see the value they could provide to drug distribution. At $10k profit per kilo just a handful of these deals would have them up and running with substantial financial resources to grow quickly ( and fall quickly lol ) ( note Guiseppe bragging about paying guys $150K to take the fall, buying judges )

Also interesting from that article is 6 different countries were involved in Project OTremens ( US, Canada, Mexico, Italy, Columbia , Netherlands ) and they kept the local Hamilton PD out of it . Why go thru all this trouble/ expense for Mickey Mouse drug operators ?

That’s an excellent article that I never saw

[Pogo The Clown]

You guys are doing it again. You are lumping different operations and different groups spanning years all into one huge Todaro operation. The Violi ring also involved Bonanno, Gambino, Montreal and, from the wording in that article, possibly other groups.
The figures for the Bongiovanni busts were were different non-IOC dealers/groups and Toronto dealers/groups.


Pogo

[gohnjotti]

^^^ @Wiseguy, that profile pic = priceless^^^

There's a new sheriff in town.

I like it. Embrace the meme.

We keep going in circles here and nobody is really moving their opinions. While you and I disagree (on something?) regarding Buffalo, I always respect your position and admire your ability to hold your ground.

That being said, are you sure you're not fighting a battle that has already ended? I'm referring to the old days when people could say anything and have it taken with equal measure. I don't know how to put it but you've won. You're evidence-based approach is now the main route people take, we just don't always agree with the evidence people draw from. But the days of someone coming on here as a former involved guy with info or inflated family numbers and being taken serious beyond a handful of people are over. I get the impression that you view Buffalo as a final frontier that if broken, next week we'll be hearing about 300 member LA, Kansas City still controlling Casinos etc. I don't think you have to worry about it, the equilibrium has shifted that these type of claims are quickly discredited. You and Pogo both played a part in this evolution.

Because as it relates to Buffalo:
1 Everyone I've seen in this thread are basing their beliefs on sources, I'm not seeing anyone giddy or excited or stating they've "known all along."
2 Believing it has a structure with 30 members does not equate to the belief that its growing exponentially. It just it is what it is to those interested.
3 If Violi came out and said he made the whole thing up and law enforcement concurred I don't think you'd encounter any conspiracy theories from people here.

Human wheels, go round, down, around, while the clock, keeps the pace.

I agree, the argument has definitely changed from what it used to be. Before, it was Wiseguy & Pogo arguing the facts with certain insiders who claimed the Buffalo Mob is a low key powerhouse, the FBI are crooks, etc.

I’m glad that things changed. Now, the people arguing with each other are not arguing the facts. We all know the facts, but it’s the conclusions we draw from those facts that are in dispute. And I have to admit, Wiseguy & Pogo have done a great job of presenting the argument that this was a one-off from a dead family. I tried making parallels to the DeCavs, they pointed out a bunch of DeCav busts I didn’t know about. So yeah. I guess time will tell, and the truth is probably light years away from what we were arguing on the forums.

Canadian guys are the only people in the so-called Todaro family who actually had a viable criminal platform, so to speak, since all that is gone in Buffalo.

[Pogo The Clown]

You guys are doing it again. You are lumping different operations and different groups spanning years all into one huge Todaro operation. The Violi ring also involved Bonanno, Gambino, Montreal and, from the wording in that article, possibly other groups.
The figures for the Bongiovanni busts were were different non-IOC dealers/groups and Toronto dealers/groups.

To add to this it is like saying Philly was running a 157 million dollar insurance scam because Joey Merlino was involved in the pain cream scam with the Genovese, Gambinos, Bonannos, Luccheses and whoever else was involved.


Pogo

[TommyNoto]

You guys are doing it again. You are lumping different operations and different groups spanning years all into one huge Todaro operation. The Violi ring also involved Bonanno, Gambino, Montreal and, from the wording in that article, possibly other groups.
The figures for the Bongiovanni busts were were different non-IOC dealers/groups and Toronto dealers/groups.

To add to this it is like saying Philly was running a 157 million dollar insurance scam because Joey Merlino was involved in the pain cream scam with the Genovese, Gambinos, Bonannos, Luccheses and whoever else was involved.


Pogo

Nah

I only stated what Hamilton guys copped to . Importation from Columbia but i agree Gambinos and Bonnanos are likely very involved. Wish we knew the whole arrangement

[CabriniGreen]

You guys are doing it again. You are lumping different operations and different groups spanning years all into one huge Todaro operation. The Violi ring also involved Bonanno, Gambino, Montreal and, from the wording in that article, possibly other groups.
The figures for the Bongiovanni busts were were different non-IOC dealers/groups and Toronto dealers/groups.


Pogo

No one is lumping in Bongiovanni, is he even proven to be connected to the Violi bros? Where are getting this?

The Gambino involvement was Semplice and his loans, and him meeting with a " Crime family from Italy, a Father and Son boss tandem", or some shit.. And it was a PARALLEL investigation from what I understand, Morena was meeting with whomever he could. What did the Gambinos have to do with the Violis?

You doing major mental gymnastics just trying to paint the Violis as NOT major narcotics dealers, even though the article shows they have been at it since the 90s... And they wernt getting their shit through the Bonnanos or Gambinos, so how are they the Violi suppliers?

What did Montreal have to do with the indictment exactly?

[CabriniGreen]

I mean correct me if I'm wrong, but LE was sharing the same coperator/ informant, and THATS what made it a parallel operation. The criminal operations wernt the same, or one big thing, we DID NOT see Gambinos at the ceremony. Semplice didnt get his loan seed money from the Violis. And the Violis, as far as we know didnt make thec ntro to the Crime Family from Italy....

[Pogo The Clown]

Again you are attributing it all to Violi. Read the case. This ring involved multiple groups in several cities and countries.

This investigation unearthed and dug up the roots of a partnership extending from New York City to Buffalo and Toronto to Montreal, proving once again that Italian organized crime groups have evolved far beyond the neighborhood cliques of days gone by,” Michael McGarrity of the FBI

Project OTremens was assisted by the FBI, Homeland Security from the U.S., the Colombian National Police and Italian police departments as well as RCMP liaison officers in Colombia, Mexico, Italy and the Netherlands.

[Fughedaboutit]

Damn when Pogo and WG are proven wrong yet again they really grasp desperately, it is actually sad.

[Pogo The Clown]

Oh piss of asshole. If you are not going to discuss the topic take your bullshit to the graveyard.


Pogo

[CabriniGreen]

You guys are doing it again. You are lumping different operations and different groups spanning years all into one huge Todaro operation. The Violi ring also involved Bonanno, Gambino, Montreal and, from the wording in that article, possibly other groups.
The figures for the Bongiovanni busts were were different non-IOC dealers/groups and Toronto dealers/groups.


Pogo

I dont know what Bongiovanni has to do with Otremens...... nothing right?

Project OTremens was also assisted by U.S. Homeland Security, Italian police departments, the Colombian National Police and RCMP liaison officers in Colombia, Mexico, Italy and the Netherlands.

The FBI in New York City conducted what the RCMP called "a parallel, but separate" investigation into the Sicilian Mafia in that city, focusing on members of the Bonanno and Gambino families. Several "members and associates" of those crime families were charged with cocaine trafficking, loan sharking, extortion and money laundering

The investigation th investigations shared the same coperator/informant, Morena.

If you are saying we shouldn't lump Bongiovanni in with the Otremens thing, then I understand.....

[Pogo The Clown]

I'm saying you shouldn't lump all these different cases (OTremens and Bongiovanni) and their figures into one huge Buffalo-Todaro operation since they both inolved several separate operations involving several different groups (including non-IOC groups).


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

SonnyBlackstein wrote: “I do find it interesting how Wiseguy, the feds are unquestionable, yet the RCMP should be 100% dismissed with zero credibility.
Cognitive dissidence at its finest.”

When it comes to the overall state of a U.S. crime family, who's going to know better? Hmmm...tough one.

Hmmm... it’s actually embarrassing to be so condescending and so... incorrect. Fyi.

It’s NOT the FBI’s word vs the RCMP’s.

What IT IS is a dated position of the FBI which was made BEFORE an abundance of evidence has surfaced which a similar specialist Law enforcement agency, the RCMP HAS incorporated and made statements reflecting such incorporation, into its understanding of the areas LCN landscape.

Can you understand that?

You’re comparing the Feds dated position and SILENCE with the RCMP’s fully informed and stated opinion.

Does that make sense to you?

I’ll rephrase, if the Feds came out tomorrow and stated Buffalo was gone, I’d be first to say you’re right. I’d eat humble pie, happily. But the Feds aren’t saying anything and the position, your position is based on dated, very dated, information. And there’s are highly respected specialist law agency which is stating that due the emergence of said evidence it conclusively points to an active Buffalo family.

How can you honestly and logically dismiss one agency incorporating new evidences position, over another agencies dated position (who knows if that even IS there bloody position today!) which doesn’t include the new evidence?

Your baseless dismissal of a Federal agencies evidentially based position by the silence and dated position of another’s is as narrow minded as all those mafia fan boys you think you’re dismissing. Again, the FBI has in no way come out and denied or contradicted the statements of the RCMP. Yet you yourself will dismiss RCMP statements and evidence on the silence of the FBI. Wow.

You’ve become what you hated mate. Ignoring evidence to fulfill a narrative.

[Angelo Santino]

....Crickets. Chirp, chirp, chirp.
SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑
“I do find it interesting how Wiseguy, the feds are unquestionable, yet the RCMP should be 100% dismissed with zero credibility.

Cognitive dissidence at its finest.”

When it comes to the overall state of a U.S. crime family, who's going to know better? Hmmm...tough one.

Hmmm... it’s actually embarrassing to be so condescending and so... incorrect. Fyi.

It’s NOT the FBI’s word vs the RCMP’s.

What IT IS is a dated position of the FBI which was made BEFORE an abundance of evidence has surfaced which a similar specialist Law enforcement agency, the RCMP HAS incorporated and made statements reflecting such incorporation, into its understanding of the areas LCN landscape.

Can you understand that?

You’re comparing the Feds dated position and SILENCE with the RCMP’s fully informed and stated opinion.

Does that make sense to you?

I’ll rephrase, if the Feds came out tomorrow and stated Buffalo was gone, I’d be first to say you’re right. I’d eat humble pie, happily. But the Feds aren’t saying anything and the position, your position is based on dated, very dated, information. And there’s are highly respected specialist law agency which is stating that due the emergence of said evidence it conclusively points to an active Buffalo family.

How can you honestly and logically dismiss one agency incorporating new evidences position, over another agencies dated position (who knows if that even IS there bloody position today!) which doesn’t include the new evidence?

Your baseless dismissal of a Federal agencies evidentially based position by the silence and dated position of another’s is as narrow minded as all those mafia fan boys you think you’re dismissing. Again, the FBI has in no way come out and denied or contradicted the statements of the RCMP. Yet you yourself will dismiss RCMP statements and evidence on the silence of the FBI. Wow.

You’ve become what you hated mate. Ignoring evidence to fulfill a narrative.

Good points.

[Lupara]

^^^ [emoji38] @Wiseguy, that profile pic = priceless^^^ [emoji38]

There's a new sheriff in town.

I like it. Embrace the meme.

We keep going in circles here and nobody is really moving their opinions. While you and I disagree (on something?) regarding Buffalo, I always respect your position and admire your ability to hold your ground.

That being said, are you sure you're not fighting a battle that has already ended? I'm referring to the old days when people could say anything and have it taken with equal measure. I don't know how to put it but you've won.

This is not true. Me, Sonnyblackstein, Gohnjotti, Nicklecity, Tommynoto and others have beaten Wiseguy to pulp. Sure he keeps standing up but the brain damage inflicted is there, and it's irreversible. He is not the same man he was 10 months ago. He used to win, but just like Ali, the punches have added up and taken its toll. We all admire him for the legendary fights about Chicago and Detroit. Vicious battles with outraged 'guys from the neighborhood' he ultimately suckerpunched to oblivion. Some came back to challenge him, they were knocked out again. But there's an end to everything and his era as the undefeatable forum champion is over. There's indeed a new sheriff in town and his name is Domenico "the usurper of Montreal" Violi. It is time for our old lion to quit while he's still ahead, otherwise he'll only tarnish his legacy. Soon the feds will make a public anouncement on CNN admitting Buffalo is up and running again and if he's still here copypasting his arguments, he will receive a knock-out from which he won't recover.
I don't want to see this happening, I really don't.