Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Moscone65]

Seems almost all hits as of late are at gyms... if you know there’s a target on your head, work out at home, pushups!

[Wiseguy]

I dont see why both parties can’t be right. Maybe there is an ongoing effort to establish/ re establish a functioning crime family in buffalo/Canada. They could also be taken apart by one indictment (possibly have been already by the violi bust). There is a scenario in which both sides points have grounds on the truth.

I said before that a plausible theory is the Hamilton faction having something of a resurgence. Well, unless the drug bust put an end to that. But that shouldn't necessarily be attributed to the whole family, especially considering what we know about the state of things on the U.S. side of the border. In fact, lumping "Buffalo mob activity" with "Ontario mob activity" in the title of this thread is part of what leads to the confusion about Buffalo bouncing back.

[Lupara]

I dont see why both parties can’t be right. Maybe there is an ongoing effort to establish/ re establish a functioning crime family in buffalo/Canada. They could also be taken apart by one indictment (possibly have been already by the violi bust). There is a scenario in which both sides points have grounds on the truth.

I said before that a plausible theory is the Hamilton faction having something of a resurgence. Well, unless the drug bust put an end to that. But that shouldn't necessarily be attributed to the whole family, especially considering what we know about the state of things on the U.S. side of the border. In fact, lumping "Buffalo mob activity" with "Ontario mob activity" in the title of this thread is part of what leads to the confusion about Buffalo bouncing back.

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

[Moscone65]

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

[B.]

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

[Wiseguy]

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

It's a technicality within the world of LCN. Being made and having a formal affiliation with Buffalo/Todaro gives Violi legitimacy. But, as has been pointed out with other examples, that doesn't change the overall state of the Buffalo family.

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

That's a fairly good example.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

I don't think there's much chance of a bunch of identified members up there. Especially today. And, as I've shown ad nauseum, there's no way they could even come close to replacing the number of guys who've died in recent years. You're looking at two guys who are an underboss and a captain, and likely a very small crew.

But even with this resurgence of sorts, though to even call it that is somewhat of a stretch, the majority of the members are in Buffalo. And the majority of activity over the past 20 years, as sparse and disjointed as it's been, has been in Buffalo. Hamilton just had these recent - and I'm thinking last - hurrah.

[AntComello]

What if buffalo is just a crew of 10 or so guys moving large amounts of drugs back and fourth through the US Canada border and making a lot of money doing it under the radar. Not too many made guys but large amounts of profit

[Lupara]

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

Speculation. We don't have intel on all the made members in Canada.

[maxiestern11]

You take it to literally. The Hamilton faction is effectively the Buffalo family. And I think it is quite likely that some of those 13 members left in Buffalo are still involved.

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

If it was just the Hamilton faction making a resurgence then it wouldn’t be the buffalo mafia, rather just the Luppinos. Clearly violi has respect for todaro, with all the way he was talking about him. Buffalo must have something to offer and be active to an extent. No ifs ands or buts. Your arguments don’t make much sense wiseguy, I get what your saying about people jumping the gun and saying they are some huge powerhouse of a family, but the fact of the matter is there are guys in buffalo that are still respected by powerful and violent, active Canadian mafiosi.

It's a technicality within the world of LCN. Being made and having a formal affiliation with Buffalo/Todaro gives Violi legitimacy. But, as has been pointed out with other examples, that doesn't change the overall state of the Buffalo family.

It's like referring to the Newark crew under Joe Licata as members of the Philadelphia family, which is done without controversy.

The situation could be comparable to the Philly family in 1990: the (acting) boss was in Philadelphia where the family's operations and size were greatly diminished and they promoted a Newark member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

From the info we currently have, the Buffalo family has a boss in Buffalo where their operations and size are greatly diminished and they promoted a Hamilton member to underboss and tried to boost the membership up there.

The comparison ends there, as I don't expect Buffalo to have a resurgence today like Philly had in the mid-1990s and it's a different organization with a different history, but we have seen families lean on an outlying crew in an effort to hang on.

That's a fairly good example.

The big question is what the full membership is like in Canada, as LE has had difficulty confirming Canadian Cosa Nostra members, at least publicly. Is it like the old DeCavalcante Connecticut crew, where they had an underboss and a captain, but only a few soldiers under them? Or are some of these other well-known Canadian figures made members of the Buffalo family like Violi and the Luppinos turned out to be?

I don't think there's much chance of a bunch of identified members up there. Especially today. And, as I've shown ad nauseum, there's no way they could even come close to replacing the number of guys who've died in recent years. You're looking at two guys who are an underboss and a captain, and likely a very small crew.

But even with this resurgence of sorts, though to even call it that is somewhat of a stretch, the majority of the members are in Buffalo. And the majority of activity over the past 20 years, as sparse and disjointed as it's been, has been in Buffalo. Hamilton just had these recent - and I'm thinking last - hurrah.

The fact is that regardless of the size of the American based family, being a “member” or leader of an American LCN faction carries a lot of weight among Canadian based OC, regardless of whether its the Genovese mob or small fractured Buffalo mob. From day one, Canada was always subservient to America (NYC specifically), and I don’t imagine that’s changed much over the decades. And although N’drangheta is a massive entity in and of itself, I would think they have reverence for NY and by extension ALL of LCN, wherever they may operate.
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The same way American guys if/when in Italy or Sicily show proper decorum to Italian based “cosca’s”. Nobody is doing a head count to see how strong an American crew is. They just show respect.
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This is MY opinion anyway.

[Hired_Goonz]

That has to be the first Mafia-related murder in Ottawa's history, no?

[Wiseguy]

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

Speculation. We don't have intel on all the made members in Canada.

We know there are 13 identifiable made members in U.S. and Canada.

We know 3 of those 13 members are in their 90s or will be within a year.

We know at least 10 members have died since the FBI identified 23 remaining members in 2006.

If anything, the speculation is on the part of those arguing a Buffalo resurgance. Speculation that, despite the clear and consistent decline in membership, enough members have been made in Canada to counterbalance that.

[Lupara]

13 members in Buffalo and Hamilton. There isn't some army flying under the radar north of the border.

Speculation. We don't have intel on all the made members in Canada.

We know there are 13 identifiable made members in U.S. and Canada.

We know 3 of those 13 members are in their 90s or will be within a year.

We know at least 10 members have died since the FBI identified 23 remaining members in 2006.

If anything, the speculation is on the part of those arguing a Buffalo resurgance. Speculation that, despite the clear and consistent decline in membership, enough members have been made in Canada to counterbalance that.

Somehow you don't seem or simply refuse to realise that you aren't going to change the minds of those who have a different pov on this subject than you. Let me ask you a simple question: why are you keep on doing this and want are you still expecting to gain with it at this point?

(Personally I think you live for this kind of shit but that's just me.)

[cavita]

13 identifiable members in the U.S. and Canada....what about the unidentifiable ones?

[scagghiuni]

13 identifiable members in the U.S. and Canada....what about the unidentifiable ones?

yeah, according to violi wiretaps there are 30 made members, honestly it's not so fiction that with the help of the bonanno's there is a viable family again, 30 members (not 300), especially in canada where there is a big italian community and mafia presence

[Wiseguy]

Somehow you don't seem or simply refuse to realise that you aren't going to change the minds of those who have a different pov on this subject than you. Let me ask you a simple question: why are you keep on doing this and want are you still expecting to gain with it at this point?

(Personally I think you live for this kind of shit but that's just me.)

So, much like the Detroit arguments from a decade ago, I can point to these when we're 10 years from now and these Buffalo theories have fallen apart

13 identifiable members in the U.S. and Canada....what about the unidentifiable ones?

How many members do you think are able to fly under the radar today? Better yet, where did the Hamilton faction find the wherewithal and resources to start making guys in big numbers? And why weren't they doing it all along?

yeah, according to violi wiretaps there are 30 made members, honestly it's not so fiction that with the help of the bonanno's there is a viable family again, 30 members (not 300), especially in canada where there is a big italian community and mafia presence

The Bonannos have a lot bigger concerns than helping Buffalo get back on it's feet.

But you keep believing that. Like I said above, what are you going to say 10 years from now when all these theories have gone to pot? Probably much like those who argued for Detroit 10 years ago. Crickets.