Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Angelo Santino]

Very good points. You'd think something would have come out if there was a relationship during that time between Buffalo and any of the NYC families who had high-ranking turncoats in the 90s or 2000s. There could be information that we just haven't seen, though. Consider DiLeonardo's story in the Q&A about meeting with LA boss Pete Milano in California. We might not know about that if he never did a Q&A with the board.

This is the first I've been made aware of that. Very interesting. I wonder if its coincidental or something more to it that the Frank and Tony Milano were linked with early Gambino member Salvatore De Leo of New York City, who I believe was Agrigentesi. Could be coincidental, could be something more to it.

[B.]

On the subject of Cleveland and precedent / protocol, Todaro allegedly sending word to New York City about Violi's promotion is in line with Lonardo's testimony about his own promotion. When Lonardo was made underboss over Cleveland, they informed Tony Salerno of the appointment out of respect, as this was proper protocol. Recall too that Nicky Scarfo formally informed NYC about Chucky Merlino's demotion and Phil Leonetti's promotion to underboss. What Violi described involves the same position and protocol.

[Stroccos]

On the subject of Cleveland and precedent / protocol, Todaro allegedly sending word to New York City about Violi's promotion is in line with Lonardo's testimony about his own promotion. When Lonardo was made underboss over Cleveland, they informed Tony Salerno of the appointment out of respect, as this was proper protocol. Recall too that Nicky Scarfo formally informed NYC about Chucky Merlino's demotion and Phil Leonetti's promotion to underboss. What Violi described involves the same position and protocol.

Lawrence lupo a capo and possibly coisinglere for lonarod was from buffalo as well

[B.]

Zancocchio telling Buffalo about Morena's induction indicates that the John LNU on the induction tape might very well be Zancocchio. Telling Buffalo about the induction would have been a formality, as Buffalo would have most likely known about and approved of Morena's presence in Ontario prior to induction, hence the Buffalo Ontario leader attending the ceremony. It would make sense, in the spirit of formality, for Zancocchio to have had direct knowledge of the Morena induction given that he was said to have brought the message to Buffalo. If Zancocchio was in Ontario and passed back into the US via Niagara Falls, that would make for an easy stop on the way back but we're getting far into speculation here.

When Zancocchio was mentioned before, I believe I mentioned that he should have been introduced as consigliere if he had the position at the time as believed. Now that it's come out he may not have been a sanctioned consigliere, that changes things a bit.

[Angelo Santino]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.

Do you have the link for that? Thank you.

Correction. It was from a different article. Translated from this French article.


https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/11 ... ppe-drogue

As number two in the organization, some 30 Mafiosi are now under his command, mainly in the United States, but also in Hamilton, says Domenico Violi.

Wow. I never seen this article before. First, regarding Domenico Violi, I really wish it would have included the direct quote, or even something about the headaches including him having to cross into Buffalo. But there's no direct quote. I'm not pushing anything into place, I put it in the same category as "the resurgence happening when Falzone was boss," without a direct quote from Violi explaining what happened, I'm not sure if what is being paraphrased is what he was saying.

Now going through the article further, it goes into Buffalo's connections to Montreal:

In September 2016, Domenico Violi says that the situation is stabilizing in the Quebec metropolis. Everyone is working together nowadays, the old barriers are gone, he said, according to the double agent.

Domenico Violi invited him to meet Frank Arcadi, Frank Cotroni Jr. and Antonio "Tony" Mucci.

This is telling. Further reconfirms that Buffalo has been reconstituted.

And given that Buffalo offerd Gius. Violi membership who was weighing them or the Bonannos is again, interesting. When did the Bonannos start making members in Ontario? But given G. Violi quote "introduced crack to Hamilton" in the 80's, further raises suspicions that whatever the American LCN is going in Ontario is more than likely drug related.

[B.]

The first references I've seen to the Bonanno Ontario presence is the early-mid 1960s. Paolo Violi was in Ontario before Montreal but not sure if he was inducted into the Bonannos before or after he moved.

[Angelo Santino]

The first references I've seen to the Bonanno Ontario presence is the early-mid 1960s. Paolo Violi was in Ontario before Montreal but not sure if he was inducted into the Bonannos before or after he moved.

I'm wondering if about the Scibettas of early Hamilton and how early they were connected to Buffalo as well.

ALSO: created a 97 Buffalo chart, courtesy of mobinfiltrator, stroccos and eboli.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5001

[Wiseguy]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.


Pogo

I've pointed this out to scagghiuni several times but he just ignores inconvenient facts.

Buffalo making 15 or 20 guys in the space of a few years? What planet are some of these guys living on?

[Angelo Santino]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.


Pogo

I've pointed this out to scagghiuni several times but he just ignores inconvenient facts.

Buffalo making 15 or 20 guys in the space of a few years? What planet are some of these guys living on?

I believe in the possibility of that as well. Which would mean they were largely defunct between 1997 and 2014 and not "under the radar" so to speak. Which would fit with what you've said for years about no one escaping scrutiny.

I have to say, I do get the sense that there's something larger going on in this disagreement, some carryover, call it shell-shock from the old forum days where 30 assholes competed for the most interesting take on their preferred Family. The forums have matured since then and I'd say all of us involved in this discussion- me, B., Eboli, Nicklecity etc are keeping it within the realm of possibility completely guided by sources stemming from a Canadian law enforcement investigation which resulted in convictions.I'm sorry the FBI hasn't commented and we'll have to wait and see what happens down the road. If it comes out it was BS and Violi was drunk and Porky was trout fishing I'll form my conclusion on that. But if the latter occurs and American cases are made, are you willing to then revisit your conclusions on Buffalo?

[johnny_scootch]

Out of all the arguments against Violi's taped words I've seen, the one I find the most baffling is that the Buffalo-Ontario organization wouldn't be able to find enough associates to induct ~15 members over an undetermined span of time.

Especially considering they had men like the Violi Brothers waiting in the wings into their mid to late 40's for a button.

[Fughedaboutit]

No, Buffalo isn't Philadephia. And, while a lot of things are "possible," it's about what's probable. How likely is it?

A steady, uninterrupted decline in membership for years and then, in 2014 or whenever, the family decides to ramp things up again and starts making guys in droves? Where did all these new recruits come from? More to the point, when has something like this ever happened before? There is no precedent.

i doubt the mafia has recruitment problems in canada, they seem to have tons of associates, several young, over there both in montreal and ontario, it's not so impossibile the made several people, 10, 15 or even 20, from 2015 to present

You keep repeating that but it is not accurate. The majority of the membership is on the US side of the border. Even that sensationalist article about the resurgence you guys keep going by plainly said the majority of the Buffalo membership is in the US. So the majority of these 20 new members that have flown under everyone's noses that you guys talk about would be operating in the US.


Pogo

I've pointed this out to scagghiuni several times but he just ignores inconvenient facts.

Buffalo making 15 or 20 guys in the space of a few years? What planet are some of these guys living on?

I believe in the possibility of that as well. Which would mean they were largely defunct between 1997 and 2014 and not "under the radar" so to speak. Which would fit with what you've said for years about no one escaping scrutiny.

I have to say, I do get the sense that there's something larger going on in this disagreement, some carryover, call it shell-shock from the old forum days where 30 assholes competed for the most interesting take on their preferred Family. The forums have matured since then and I'd say all of us involved in this discussion- me, B., Eboli, Nicklecity etc are keeping it within the realm of possibility completely guided by sources stemming from a Canadian law enforcement investigation which resulted in convictions.I'm sorry the FBI hasn't commented and we'll have to wait and see what happens down the road. If it comes out it was BS and Violi was drunk and Porky was trout fishing I'll form my conclusion on that. But if the latter occurs and American cases are made, are you willing to then revisit your conclusions on Buffalo?

It is possible and there are the tapes of a member saying so, but these guys just keep saying shit like "it isn't possible that this happened, are you out of your mind" over and over based solely off their feelings on the subject.

[Pogo The Clown]

It is possible and there are the tapes of a member saying so, but these guys just keep saying shit like "it isn't possible that this happened, are you out of your mind" over and over based solely off their feelings on the subject.

Rich coming from the same guy who just a few weeks ago was so convinced that Ron Previte was not a made member based solely on your feelings on the subject.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

... and Porky was trout fishing

. Enjoyed.

The frustration your feeling is inconsistency. We have evidence, Law Enforcement, a trial, key, taped verbatim and the ‘opposing side’ does not even cede an inch in ground in recognition of the possibility that any of the above holds weight.

The frustration emanates that these exact criteria are what the aforementioned usually trumpet as the gold standards in credibility.

We now understand that it’s not ‘Law Enforcement’ which has credibility, only one very specific agency in that umbrella.

[SonnyBlackstein]

It is possible and there are the tapes of a member saying so, but these guys just keep saying shit like "it isn't possible that this happened, are you out of your mind" over and over based solely off their feelings on the subject.

Rich coming from the same guy who just a few weeks ago was so convinced that Ron Previte was not a made member based solely on your feelings on the subject.


Pogo

You’re allowed to question, anything. Based on goodwill.

The wheels fall off when you blindly ignore evidence to adhere to a preconceived belief and maintain a line regardless of changes in information or evidence.

[Angelo Santino]

... and Porky was trout fishing

. Enjoyed.

The frustration your feeling is inconsistency. We have evidence, Law Enforcement, a trial, key, taped verbatim and the ‘opposing side’ does not even cede an inch in ground in recognition of the possibility that any of the above holds weight.

The frustration emanates that these exact criteria are what the aforementioned usually trumpet as the gold standards in credibility.

We now understand that it’s not ‘Law Enforcement’ which has credibility, only one very specific agency in that umbrella.

I don't have any frustration, I'm not going to lose any sleep over this. I like and respect Pogo/Wiseguy's opposing view and can appreciate its presence here. I know they're coming from a good place with honest intentions and hopefully they can say the same about me. It's never personal.

But in regards to the mafia at the end of the day, it is their organization and we don't get to decide what they do. We take in the information second and third hand and do our best to make sense out of it. I remember some people confounded in disbelief- including Anastasia himself- over the revelation that drunk fuck Angelina was Ligambi's Under and not smart make-money-not-headlines Staino, and how they couldn't take Uncle Joe "serious" any longer, as if Ligambi could give a fuck what they think in the first place.