Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Wiseguy]

Once enough time passes we will be able to say the same about the Genovese’s.
Who’s arguing Buffalo will be around forever? Or even viable in 10years, or 5? Nobody here that I’ve read.

Whether they have a structure and were functional in a capacity in 2017 is the dispute.

So, hypothetically, if we see little or nothing from the Buffalo LCN (on either side of the border) over the next 5 or 10 years, you'll still adhere to the idea they were briefly viable rather than consider that what activity we've seen recently was just some residual activity by remnants of a family?

[scagghiuni]

So, hypothetically, if we see little or nothing from the Buffalo LCN (on either side of the border) over the next 5 or 10 years, you'll still adhere to the idea they were briefly viable rather than consider that what activity we've seen recently was just some residual activity by remnants of a family?

what we are seeing here is something much more than a couple of associates involved in gambling like it happened in kansas city or a single man made by marotta in rochester... here we have wiretaps, people made (the violi's for sure, probaby others), other asked to be (cece luppino), a man made underbooss, another captain, joe todaro jr as boss

[Wiseguy]

So, hypothetically, if we see little or nothing from the Buffalo LCN (on either side of the border) over the next 5 or 10 years, you'll still adhere to the idea they were briefly viable rather than consider that what activity we've seen recently was just some residual activity by remnants of a family?

what we are seeing here is something much more than a couple of associates involved in gambling like it happened in kansas city or a single man made by marotta in rochester... here we have wiretaps, people made (the violi's for sure, probaby others), other asked to be (cece luppino), a man made underbooss, another captain, joe todaro jr as boss

So we should definitely expect more from this revitalized family in the coming years, correct? And if it doesn't happen?

[gohnjotti]

So, hypothetically, if we see little or nothing from the Buffalo LCN (on either side of the border) over the next 5 or 10 years, you'll still adhere to the idea they were briefly viable rather than consider that what activity we've seen recently was just some residual activity by remnants of a family?

what we are seeing here is something much more than a couple of associates involved in gambling like it happened in kansas city or a single man made by marotta in rochester... here we have wiretaps, people made (the violi's for sure, probaby others), other asked to be (cece luppino), a man made underbooss, another captain, joe todaro jr as boss

So we should definitely expect more from this revitalized family in the coming years, correct? And if it doesn't happen?

Even you have to acknowledge, Wiseguy, that it's hard to see how any of this could be "remnants" or residual activity given that we have a promotion to underboss, induction ceremonies, and a named capo. With the Detroit, Kansas City, Tampa debates, we never saw anything of that scope.

[Wiseguy]

Even you have to acknowledge, Wiseguy, that it's hard to see how any of this could be "remnants" or residual activity given that we have a promotion to underboss, induction ceremonies, and a named capo. With the Detroit, Kansas City, Tampa debates, we never saw anything of that scope.

While they seem to be conveniently ignored, Pogo has - several times now - given examples where there have been promotions, induction ceremonies, and guys with titles in families that were no longer considered active.

I realize you guys are impressed with it but, looking at precedence and general trends, I see no reason to expect Buffalo will prove the exception to the rule.

But we've established that. At this point, I'm just wondering what has to happen (or not happen) for the Buffalo believers to rethink their position. Assuming there's anything.

[Pogo The Clown]

Even you have to acknowledge, Wiseguy, that it's hard to see how any of this could be "remnants" or residual activity given that we have a promotion to underboss, induction ceremonies, and a named capo. With the Detroit, Kansas City, Tampa debates, we never saw anything of that scope.

Back in the late 90s/early 2000s Tommy Gambino was promoted to UnderBoss of the LA family. They also had 2 named Capos (Caci and Caruso). In addition Milano inducted about half a dozen new members during the 90s. Looking at things in retrospect I don't think anyone would say now that LA was a resurging family or even a viable family. More like the last remnants going through the motions. There was no real organization to speak of and very little criminal activity with only a few members involved in very minimal activities.


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

Where did the info come from that Rocco Luppino is a captain?

I can add DiFulco and Capiano (?), Sansanese and Panaro as members.

Chris, here's the list on confirmed living members we did a couple of days ago, if you missed it.

Domenico Violi
Giuseppe Violi
Rocco Lupino
Salvatore Agro
Joseph Albano
Frank Bifulco
Victor Cannarozzo Jr
Louis Manzo
Alfonso Napoli
Robert Panaro
Frank Perna
Victor Sansonese
Joseph Todaro Jr
Natale Luppino
FNU Brindinsi

1 Do we have photos of any of these men?

2 What's the source on Rocco Luppino being captain?

3 Same for Sansanese and Bifulco alledgedly holding ranks, what's the sources?

[Cheech]

There’s a wiretap of an underboss talking about made members. Porky is up there from fuckin Staten Island for a reason. Who knows what’s going on but evidently something.

[Cheech]

Even you have to acknowledge, Wiseguy, that it's hard to see how any of this could be "remnants" or residual activity given that we have a promotion to underboss, induction ceremonies, and a named capo. With the Detroit, Kansas City, Tampa debates, we never saw anything of that scope.

Back in the late 90s/early 2000s Tommy Gambino was promoted to UnderBoss of the LA family. They also had 2 named Capos (Caci and Caruso). In addition Milano inducted about half a dozen new members during the 90s. Looking at things in retrospect I don't think anyone would say now that LA was a resurging family or even a viable family. More like the last remnants going through the motions. There was no real organization to speak of and very little criminal activity with only a few members involved in very minimal activities.


Pogo

Ya but that’s 20 years ago now. If LA had an underboss on tape talking made guys and ceremonies I’d say the same thing. Who knows what’s going on ( I’m not an investigator) but evidently something.

[johnny_scootch]

Where did the info come from that Rocco Luppino is a captain?

I can add DiFulco and Capiano (?), Sansanese and Panaro as members.

From the Adrian Humphreys article



The reorganization seemed to begin in 2014.

Violi himself said he was inducted into the Buffalo Family as a “made” member in January 2015, according to the documents, and around the same time, Rocco Luppino, Giacomo Luppino’s son, was allegedly named “captain” of the group’s outpost in Canada; a younger Luppino relative was asked if he wished to also be “made.”

Violi said he beat out 30 other guys to become Underboss, the documents claim. All would have to be “made members” of the Buffalo Family to be considered for the post.

The mobsters, the documents allege, were clear that Todaro held the reigns of power within the re-emergent Buffalo organization; the men said that nobody became a member without going through Todaro first. They said a mobster in the area was either under Todaro or they needed to pack their bags and leave.

In keeping with mob tradition, in an attempt to protect the boss, Violi and the informant sometimes made a hand gesture instead of speaking Todaro’s name: they would put their fingers to their mouth as if puffing a cigar or cigarette, the documents allege.

There was debate, according to the informant’s alleged conversations with Violi’s younger brother, Giuseppe (Joe or Joey) Violi, on whether he should be “made” by the Bonanno Family, to which their father belonged, or by Buffalo.

[gohnjotti]

Even you have to acknowledge, Wiseguy, that it's hard to see how any of this could be "remnants" or residual activity given that we have a promotion to underboss, induction ceremonies, and a named capo. With the Detroit, Kansas City, Tampa debates, we never saw anything of that scope.

Back in the late 90s/early 2000s Tommy Gambino was promoted to UnderBoss of the LA family. They also had 2 named Capos (Caci and Caruso). In addition Milano inducted about half a dozen new members during the 90s. Looking at things in retrospect I don't think anyone would say now that LA was a resurging family or even a viable family. More like the last remnants going through the motions. There was no real organization to speak of and very little criminal activity with only a few members involved in very minimal activities.


Pogo

The Los Angeles family was, by my definition, an active family during the 1990s. Yes they were small, and yes they were dying, but they were very much “active”. If Violi’s wiretap is anything to go by, then Buffalo is in the same boat as the Los Angeles family.

At what point, approximately, did the Los Angeles Mafia go from being active to inactive? Milano and Caruso were more “legitimate” than most mobsters, but they were still committing crimes under the banner of LCN? They were still inducting members for the furtherance of a criminal enterprise, right? Jimmy Caci was a career criminal operating under the flag of the Los Angeles Mafia, right?

Yet you characterise the Los Angeles Mafia’s operations during the 1990s as “last remnants going through the motions.” That, to me, implies that the induction of new members, promotions to administrative positions, adherence of LCN rules, is just something that happens on its own, even when a Mafia family is not “viable,” whatever that means. I would argue that multiple induction ceremonies, sitdowns, meetings with capos, “claiming” associates, operating rackets and kicking upstairs is a lot more than “going through the motions.” I would argue that the activity listed is evidence of an ongoing criminal enterprise. These LA mobsters we’re making a conceited effort to upkeep a criminal enterprise. And yes, the Los Angeles Mafia ended up dying out, and even if Violi’s statements are admissible of anything, then the Buffalo Mafia will likely suffer the same fate. But for now, if the Buffalo Mafia is operating in the same capacity as the 1990s LA Mafia, then they’re active as of 2017.

[Wiseguy]

There’s a wiretap of an underboss talking about made members. Porky is up there from fuckin Staten Island for a reason. Who knows what’s going on but evidently something.

In 1994, Anthony Carollo (identified as the boss of New Orleans) was overheard on wiretap talking about made guys, as well as the video poker machines scam they had going. Not only that, but members and associates from two NY families were involved in the operation. 17 people, including Corallo and one of Carlos Marcello's brothers, were subsequently indicted.

Of course, the feds had already written the family off. And although there was "something going on" at that point, the overall picture hasn't changed.

[johnny_scootch]

I noticed Todaro uses a lot of the same tactics as other bosses such as having members make hand gestures instead of saying his name a la Gigante and he took Violi down to Florida for an important meeting like Joe Massino would do with his top guys. Also it was mentioned but theres no evidence for it that Falzone was a front boss. It's clear he goes to great lengths to avoid exposure.

[Lupara]

Even you have to acknowledge, Wiseguy, that it's hard to see how any of this could be "remnants" or residual activity given that we have a promotion to underboss, induction ceremonies, and a named capo. With the Detroit, Kansas City, Tampa debates, we never saw anything of that scope.

Back in the late 90s/early 2000s Tommy Gambino was promoted to UnderBoss of the LA family. They also had 2 named Capos (Caci and Caruso). In addition Milano inducted about half a dozen new members during the 90s. Looking at things in retrospect I don't think anyone would say now that LA was a resurging family or even a viable family. More like the last remnants going through the motions. There was no real organization to speak of and very little criminal activity with only a few members involved in very minimal activities.


Pogo

From the American pov it's a good argument, but you simply ignore the Canadian angle. As you know, Buffalo has had a historical presence in Ontario and still has to some degree, which has been proven. None of these other families had activity in Canada so were solely dependent on American circumstances. When they feds went at them with full force, that was it, but their jurisdiction stops at the border. In Canada things are quite different for organized crime and a part of the family there is still active. Couple that with Violi's statements that have been used in court that confirm interaction with their homebase and you still have activity in the family as a whole. It's as simple as that. Not that this would matter to the two of you but this is were our opinion differs conclusively.

[Lupara]

Even you have to acknowledge, Wiseguy, that it's hard to see how any of this could be "remnants" or residual activity given that we have a promotion to underboss, induction ceremonies, and a named capo. With the Detroit, Kansas City, Tampa debates, we never saw anything of that scope.

Back in the late 90s/early 2000s Tommy Gambino was promoted to UnderBoss of the LA family. They also had 2 named Capos (Caci and Caruso). In addition Milano inducted about half a dozen new members during the 90s. Looking at things in retrospect I don't think anyone would say now that LA was a resurging family or even a viable family. More like the last remnants going through the motions. There was no real organization to speak of and very little criminal activity with only a few members involved in very minimal activities.


Pogo

The Los Angeles family was, by my definition, an active family during the 1990s. Yes they were small, and yes they were dying, but they were very much “active”. If Violi’s wiretap is anything to go by, then Buffalo is in the same boat as the Los Angeles family.

At what point, approximately, did the Los Angeles Mafia go from being active to inactive? Milano and Caruso were more “legitimate” than most mobsters, but they were still committing crimes under the banner of LCN? They were still inducting members for the furtherance of a criminal enterprise, right? Jimmy Caci was a career criminal operating under the flag of the Los Angeles Mafia, right?

Yet you characterise the Los Angeles Mafia’s operations during the 1990s as “last remnants going through the motions.” That, to me, implies that the induction of new members, promotions to administrative positions, adherence of LCN rules, is just something that happens on its own, even when a Mafia family is not “viable,” whatever that means. I would argue that multiple induction ceremonies, sitdowns, meetings with capos, “claiming” associates, operating rackets and kicking upstairs is a lot more than “going through the motions.” I would argue that the activity listed is evidence of an ongoing criminal enterprise. These LA mobsters we’re making a conceited effort to upkeep a criminal enterprise. And yes, the Los Angeles Mafia ended up dying out, and even if Violi’s statements are admissible of anything, then the Buffalo Mafia will likely suffer the same fate. But for now, if the Buffalo Mafia is operating in the same capacity as the 1990s LA Mafia, then they’re active as of 2017.

Far better arguments than I used.