Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[B.]

Do you happen to recall the names of any Buffalo figures that met with the Ontario group? Thank you.

[Wiseguy]

@Wiseguy and Pogo: Would you two children grow the fuck up.

We’ve got a Detective with the Hamilton Police Department who worked fucking undercover with italian OC patiently answering all questions posed to him and you two idiots are responding with childish sarcastic responses.

You don’t like the answers, fine, don’t want to believe him, fine, but treat the guy with some respect and engage in an adult manner. I believe he’s earned it, at least more than you two schmucks.

Wow, where did this newfound respect for law enforcement come from? Could it be you guys really give a flying rat's ass about who he is or what he did? Or is it more likely you guys only care because what he's saying is what you want to hear?

Once again, sarcasm aside, is there anyone else on this forum who defers to law enforcement more than we do?
And the irony of your post is that we constantly have to be the adults who tell some of you there is no Santa Claus.

[NickleCity]

Curious why the FBI haven't declared the New England, Philly, Chicago, NJ families dead for PR or budget purposes? Why does Buffalo get this special treatment of being declared defunct and ignored by the FBI when in reality they know still are still going strong?


Pogo

although he didn't said it, i bet they have some strong political connections over there, that's could be a reason they even denied they exist

+1 No strong evidence but circumstantial evidence they have political connections (Grisanti, Panepinto, and others) local experience and my gut says this... I've outlined circumstantial evidence why in great detail on another BB. Yes, I know I have and will continue catch heat for the circumstantial nature of what I've said and for using that "childish, wet-dream of a BB." I've admitted it so as to save Pogo, Wiseguy, and Confederate the trouble of pointing it out.

[Wiseguy]

I have to say though that despite our disagreements that is very a good chart you posted. Thanks for contributing it. Do you happen to have the one from 2006 or any from earlier periods? Thanks.


Pogo

Wasn't this the 2006 chart below? Obviously heavily redacted. The FBI one anyway.

What we need to do is look at those names on the 1997 chart and determine how many have died.

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah that is the one. It is redacted all to hell though and it is hard to make out the structure. The article talking about the chart mentions 4 Capos listed but looking at the layout of the chart there may not be any. It looks like it goes from administration to Soldiers. Have to see the full version to be sure though.


Pogo

[mobinfiltrator]

I’ll speak to the topic of Buffalo and the FBI’s constant denial they’re still an active organization.

In 2006 my Project (Scopa) an undercover operation in the Traditional Organized Crime in the Golden Horseshoe was compromise by corrupt police officers. Contracts were taken out by (allegedly) TOC and the Hamilton Chapter of Hells Angels.

I was sent as a Detective to work at the RCMP Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit. We were working a job on the Albanian mob. It was a cross border operation with both the FBI Detroit and Buffalo/ Niagara field offices.

In chatting with one of the FBI agents after a debrief he asked my name, so I told him. He knew me, and so did a few other of the officers. They’d worked TOC out of Buffalo for years and he told me they were still a very active crew and increasingly so in Canada.

He went on to tell me because of something that happened in Sept 2001 90% of all Organized Crime funding had been diverted to anti-terrorism.

This lack of funding showed as well. We’d follow the Albanians to the border, and hand over to the Feds. Our surveillance crew would run about 9 strong, 9 different vehicles. The feds would be lucky if they had 3 surveillance guys and 2 vehicles, because , and I quote “We’re on a gas budget.”

In the end we took the Albanians down on their way to do a hit just outside of Toronto, and even extradited one who was wanted by NYPD for an attempt murder on an NYPD Detective.

My point is, from a law enforcement perspective, when you’re this short handed that you can’t cover your most basic units, you enter into PR mode and tell everyone concerned that there’s no crime. Nothing to see here. And of course the Todaro’s aren’t going to dispute this.

2006/ 2007 the FBI told me directly TOC are operational and stronger than ever in Buffalo.

I speak with one ‘retired’ mobster on this side of the border. Every year he still has to cross and present himself to the Todaro’s to prove his loyalty, and every year he doe’s so expecting this will be the time he gets clipped.

The Buffalo TOC are still alive and well and anyone who tells you any different is delusional to the facts.

These guys rarely retire.

Its a lifestyle for them, not about the money. They don’t know or want to do anything else.

Two made guys from Buffalo attended Ang Musitanos funeral.

We have them active and about 30 strong in 2006.

You really think they’re gone because the FBI and Todaro say so?

Just my humble opinion.




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Well hell, going with that argument, one could make the same claims about any family where there is a clear, steady decline in numbers and little in the way of mob cases. Maybe the Smaldone family in Denver has been
"alive and well" right under our noses this whole time. Sarcasm aside, it's true that a lot of federal resources were diverted after 9/11 but that excuse can only go so far for so long in explaining away lack of indictments.

As Pogo pointed out, over the past 20 years we've still seen ongoing cases with the New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago families. To say nothing of the five New York families. And these are the same 9 families that we've consistently seen listed by the feds as still being viable. I'm guessing that's not just a coincidence.

But we're supposed to believe Buffalo and Detroit are somehow different and the exception to the rule despite relatively little in the way of mob cases over an extended period of time, as well as clear declines in membership?

Buffalo and Detroit lasted longer into the 1990s than many other families did after the Mafia-busting 1980s. But we haven't seen a truly major case involving either family since 1996 - LIUNA Local 210 for Buffalo and GamTax for Detroit. It's 2019, people. If the few families left outside New York, which the FBI actually does still recognize, are small and weak, what are the chances Buffalo or Detroit are still alive and well?

I know very little to nothing about the Detroit OC scene, in all honesty. I just do know Detroit FBI field office had exactly the same issues as Buffalo/ Niagara.


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[mobinfiltrator]

Do you happen to recall the names of any Buffalo figures that met with the Ontario group? Thank you.

Ill ask Adrian Humphries. He’s written a couple of books about this. He has the names. Never really been of interest too me until I found this forum, I’ll be honest.


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[Pogo The Clown]

Wow, where did this newfound respect for law enforcement come from? Could it be you guys really give a flying rat's ass about who he is or what he did? Or is it more likely you guys only care because what he's saying is what you want to hear?

Once again, sarcasm aside, is there anyone else on this forum who defers to law enforcement more than we do?
And the irony of your post is that we constantly have to be the adults who tell some of you there is no Santa Claus.

Yeah it is rich coming from the same people that regularly disregard LE when they say what they don't want to hear. That and they regularly bash LE and act as cheerleaders for the mob to win (not saying SB does this part but many here do).

[quote=scagghiuni post_id=116538 time=<a href="tel:1564333522">1564333522</a> user_id=138]
although he didn't said it, i bet they have some strong political connections over there, that's could be a reason they even denied they exist

+1 No strong evidence but circumstantial evidence they have political connections (Grisanti, Panepinto, and others) local experience and my gut says this... I've outlined circumstantial evidence why in great detail on another BB. Yes, I know I have and will continue catch heat for the circumstantial nature of what I've said and for using that "childish, wet-dream of a BB." I've admitted it so as to save Pogo, Wiseguy, and Confederate the trouble of pointing it out.
[/quote]


Funny how all these supposed political connections to the highest levels of government that would be necessary for a cover up like this only kicked in in the mid-2000s? The Buffalo wiseguys sure could have used all that political protection during the 1960s-early 2000s when they were getting busted.


Pogo

[mobinfiltrator]

Took the name of the Govr out. But here’s your connections from the Musitano’s to Buffalo.




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[Frank]

He has nothing to lose. Unless he plans on leaving the country why not try to make a statement and hit luppino or someone big shit if I was in his position I’d by out doing hits by myself. Fuck farming out to street gangs he might as well go full Rambo mode and start killing whoever it is he thinks is sending these guys to his house to kill
Him.

I really though there might be a small chance of getting him to flip.


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Is Musitano considered a made Bonanno?

[Wiseguy]

So how many of these 34 guys listed in 1997 are still living?


1. Ignazio "Iggy" Agro - dead
2. Salvatore Agro ?
3. Vito Agueci - dead
4. Joseph Albano - ?
5. Frank Bifulco - living
6. Albert Billiteri - dead
7. Victor Cannarozzo Jr - ?
8. Felix Borelli - dead
9. Salvatore Cardinale - dead
10. John Catanzaro - dead
11. Salvatore "Sam" Frangiamore - dead
12. Frank Inserra - dead
13. Louis Manzo - ?
14. Nicholas Mauro - dead
15. Bart Mazarra - dead
16. Gaetano Miceli - dead
17. Alfonso Napoli - ?
18. Benjamin "Sonny" Nicoletti - dead
19. Robert Panaro - living
20. Frank Papalia - dead
21. Donald Penepinto - dead
22. Frank Perna - ?
23. Joseph Pieri - dead
24. Pasquale Politano - dead
25. Fred Randaccio - dead
26. Joseph Rosato - dead
27. Daniel Sansonese Jr - dead
28. Victor Sansonese - living
29. Vincent Scro - dead
30. Louis Sicurella - dead
31. Vincent Sicurella - dead
32. Joseph Todaro Sr. - dead
33. Joseph Todaro Jr - living
34. Rocco Vaccaro - dead



Not sure why Leonard Falzone wasn't on the list. He's also dead.

And we can obviously include Domenico Violi and Rocco Luppino among the living members.

[Lupara]

He has nothing to lose. Unless he plans on leaving the country why not try to make a statement and hit luppino or someone big shit if I was in his position I’d by out doing hits by myself. Fuck farming out to street gangs he might as well go full Rambo mode and start killing whoever it is he thinks is sending these guys to his house to kill
Him.

I really though there might be a small chance of getting him to flip.


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Is Musitano considered a made Bonanno?

It's an interesting subject. Technically he would belong to the Bonannos if he was made by Rizzuto. But the mid 2000s were the height of Montreal's subtle rebellion. Lorenzo Giordano was made too at that time and he was criticizing the Bonannos, the family he was supposed to be made in since so far there is no evidence that Montreal had been sanctioned/recognised as their own family. Montagna's coup proved as much. So it raises an interesting question indeed. It does very much seem that the people loyal to Rizzuto considered themselves as their own group.

Coincidentally or not, basically all the old Rizzuto allies have been murdered and now Musitano is targeted too. If you look at it that way it seems like a housecleaning. Who knows what's going on.

[faffy444]

Felix Borelli passed away in 1998.

[scagghiuni]

It does very much seem that the people loyal to Rizzuto considered themselves as their own group.

Coincidentally or not, basically all the old Rizzuto allies have been murdered and now Musitano is targeted too. If you look at it that way it seems like a housecleaning. Who knows what's going on.

maybe the rizzuto's wanted to form an own family and when sal montagna was deported in montreal he tried to get them out of the way or maybe it's just a war between two bonanno's faction in canada, in this case the rizzuto's are still bonanno members

[slimshady_007]

I doubt the Buffalo mob is prospering but it seems that the family is still active in some sense. Just 2 yrs ago, they were hit with an indictment so the family doesn’t appear to be dead. I doubt the family has any political connections since shit like that just doesn’t happen anymore in Buffalo. The mob in Buffalo has lost a lot of it’s clout and in 2019 it seems to be a glorified crew.