Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Moscone65]

I don’t think there’s some secret powerhouse in buffalo. Probably a couple of crews doing low key things like gambling, loansharking, ect., and a few old timers as the hierarchy. The Luppinos joined up with buffalo back in the day when they were much bigger and more powerful for the same reasons like the musitanos fell in with the rizzutos. The Luppinos got that la cosa nostra connection. Now the buffalo side is smaller, but their Canadian crew(s) stick with them because they still offer a connection to lcn, and any other valuable opportunities/perks the us may offer. They probably send some kick up once in a while over the border, talk once in a while, ask them before doing anything too major, but for the most part the Luppinos did their own thing. With todaro allegedly making violi underboss, he may have been trying to bring the Luppinos/violi faction closer, as they are very active and valuable.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Paul,
Sincere welcome. I hope we can have a mutually beneficial relationship and your tenure here is as rewarding as we find your contributions.

Again, Welcome and thanks mate

[B.]

Looks like Manning interpreted the "30 guys" to mean 30 high-ranking members, but in Cosa Nostra any made member can be promoted to any position at any time (including boss), so it's pretty likely that Violi meant 30 total soldiers.

I don't see how Manning discredited himself by interpreting the info this way. He said himself it would have been an exaggeration anyway, and that he himself doesn't have personal knowledge of the family's size.

i don't know the extent of Manning's investigation but he's the kind of contributor we want on the board and I hope people spend time asking him valid questions (even if they respectfully challenge his perspective) rather than nitpicking for the sake of being "right".

[Ivan]

This thread is going to be like 150 pages in a week.

Anyway, welcome to the board.

[scagghiuni]

Looks like Manning interpreted the "30 guys" to mean 30 high-ranking members, but in Cosa Nostra any made member can be promoted to any position at any time (including boss), so it's pretty likely that Violi meant 30 total soldiers.

he could mean 30 between made and associates, to be viable can be enough 10 made members if recognized by the commission, you neednt 200 like the gambinos

[eboli]

The statement is so vague it can be interpreted in a few different ways. I think the most logical assumption is he meant there are 30 made members viable for the position and he was chosen ahead of them.

[Angelo Santino]

This thread is going to be like 150 pages in a week.

Anyway, welcome to the board.

[AntComello]

He has nothing to lose. Unless he plans on leaving the country why not try to make a statement and hit luppino or someone big shit if I was in his position I’d by out doing hits by myself. Fuck farming out to street gangs he might as well go full Rambo mode and start killing whoever it is he thinks is sending these guys to his house to kill
Him.

[Lupara]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


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So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


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Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



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+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


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Still wonder why you believe Papalia was answering to Rizzuto since he was I believe identified as a Buffalo member by multiple credible sources. Did he somehow switch over to the Bonannos or did he unofficially align himself with Montreal and turned his back at Buffalo? Or was he inducted into the Bonannos from the start? Poster B. discovered that the Bonannos had several members in Ontario during Joe's era, which was possibly another reason why his cousin felt threatened and conspired against him. Magaddino also put Papalia on the same death list as the Aguecis in the early 60s which would be unusual if he was not in his family. Needless to say Papalia somehow talked (or paid) his way out of it.

Also, it's interesting that you mention that Papalia brought over Dominic Musitano as Bonanno according to an old FBI report based on a conversation by Magaddino 'brought over' Paolo Violi and sponsored him into his family. That Bonanno was personally aquainted with members of his old Montreal crew is confirmed by the fact that he sent a wreath to Rocco Violi's funeral to show his sympathy for the family.

[johnny_scootch]

Looks like Manning interpreted the "30 guys" to mean 30 high-ranking members, but in Cosa Nostra any made member can be promoted to any position at any time (including boss), so it's pretty likely that Violi meant 30 total soldiers.

I don't see how Manning discredited himself by interpreting the info this way. He said himself it would have been an exaggeration anyway, and that he himself doesn't have personal knowledge of the family's size.

i don't know the extent of Manning's investigation but he's the kind of contributor we want on the board and I hope people spend time asking him valid questions (even if they respectfully challenge his perspective) rather than nitpicking for the sake of being "right".

Looks like Manning made a mistake and very typical of pogo and wiseguy to jump right on that because we all know how much time and how many key strokes they have invested in the Buffalo is dead theory. Here is someone from a position of authority who may oppose that theory and their campaign to discredit him for the sake of being right has already begun.

[Angelo Santino]

Do we have any other names aside from Todaro and Violi? What about Butch Quarcini, Bobby Panaro or Victor Sansanese?

[mobinfiltrator]

He has nothing to lose. Unless he plans on leaving the country why not try to make a statement and hit luppino or someone big shit if I was in his position I’d by out doing hits by myself. Fuck farming out to street gangs he might as well go full Rambo mode and start killing whoever it is he thinks is sending these guys to his house to kill
Him.

I really though there might be a small chance of getting him to flip.


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[mobinfiltrator]

I see. A poster on gbb giacomo vacari said last year that they had about 5 made guys and 25-30 associates which matches up with what your saying. No clue how he knows that. Another thing I’m hoping you may help me answer is how do the musitanos “make” guys? Is it done with permission from the rizzutos? Did they do that a while ago and therefore don’t have any recent made members? We’re they made by buffalo and then just remained made, or did they just do it themselves and people recognized them as made as well.

I think it differs from family to family.

As for getting their button. That is NEVER discussed, at least not in front of me. I know as much as you know.

I once asked one of the Papalias to ‘make’ me. It was an interesting, and funny conversation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So are the Musitano’s made Buffalo members, how did they get their start with them, through there father or uncle?

Angelo was never made and Pat wasn’t a made guy when he plugged Papalia. He got his button when he got out of jail and that will have come from Montreal I believe. Pat’s old man was a boss, old school Calabrase brought over in the 50s by the Papalias believe it or not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Papalia was under Buffalo so how does Montreal have the authority to make them, since they were at the time officially with the Bonannos. Does that make the Musitanos Bonanno members? What about the Luppinos?

Right, this came from a really tight CI, who is still deeply involved in TOC. I’ve also corroborated with police statements and Murdocks account.

Papalia was under Rizzuto, who at the time answered to Buffalo.

Pat and Ang are two smart assed cugines who want to get made. They go to Papalia, cap in hand and ask for spread. (An area where Papalia collects gambling dues).

Papalia still very familiar with their father, gives them an area and they do fantastic. The boys have already got a rep and everyone pays up. They give the money to Papalia, he gives them some back and he pays up the chain to Rizzuto. You all know how this works.

So one day, Pat has an idea. He’ll go directly to Rizzuto and pay him. That way Rizzuto knows exactly where the money is coming from. So he does that. Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from and takes the cash, knowing this will be a problem, but not his problem.

When Papalia finds out he instructs the boys to give him his cash back, the full amount, with juice. (Interest)

Dumb and dumber tell him he’ll get it on the next collection day. They go collect, then head down to the Fallsview Casino to double the money, so they can pay back Papalia.

Well wouldn’t you know it. They lose everything. CBP have them crossing to Buffalo shortly after leaving the casino. Two days later Murdock offs Papalia right in front of my CI.

Then Barillaro starts up, knowing full well who was behind the murder, but not knowing it was authorized. Before Buffalo can tell him to calm it down he starts to make threats against the Musitanos.

The Musitano send Murdock round to his house and he whacks Barillaro. They were 300 meters away in a Waffle House.

Again a couple of days after this CBP have the Musitanos crossing the border and coming back. But I’ll bet Buffalo was pissed. No chance they’re getting made now states side.

Couple of months after that, surveillance catch Musitano at a meeting in Ontario with Vito Rizzuto. Thats when he aligned himself with Montreal. Guys an earner and like I said, Rizzuto doesn’t give a fuck where it comes from. Musitano inherited all Johnny’s book.

Oh, Dom Musitano, Pat’s father answered to Italy. Not to anyone in North America. Pat aligned himself with Montreal out of self preservation.

Now though, I’m starting to believe they all want him dead, like with Papalia. Johnny became such a problem for everyone, he had to go.

In answer to Q in my humble opinion, Pat made in/ by Montreal. Angelo never got his button.



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+10

Although can't help being sceptic about Rizzuto being under Buffalo for the documented fact that he was listed as a Bonanno soldier under Sciascia (who was still alive).

Sorry, my bad...I meant Bonanno. He answered to New York, not Buffalo. Thx for the correction.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Still wonder why you believe Papalia was answering to Rizzuto since he was I believe identified as a Buffalo member by multiple credible sources. Did he somehow switch over to the Bonannos or did he unofficially align himself with Montreal and turned his back at Buffalo? Or was he inducted into the Bonannos from the start? Poster B. discovered that the Bonannos had several members in Ontario during Joe's era, which was possibly another reason why his cousin felt threatened and conspired against him. Magaddino also put Papalia on the same death list as the Aguecis in the early 60s which would be unusual if he was not in his family. Needless to say Papalia somehow talked (or paid) his way out of it.

Also, it's interesting that you mention that Papalia brought over Dominic Musitano as Bonanno according to an old FBI report based on a conversation by Magaddino 'brought over' Paolo Violi and sponsored him into his family. That Bonanno was personally aquainted with members of his old Montreal crew is confirmed by the fact that he sent a wreath to Rocco Violi's funeral to show his sympathy for the family.

It was actually Johnny Pops father who brought over Dom Musitano, not Johnny. I meant the Papalia family. Johnnys father was a driver and fixer for Rocco Perri. As for Buffalo/ Montreal I’ll do a complete posting on it. And I’ll evidence where my thought process comes from. I know for a fact money from gaming went to Rizzuto, because I know one of the guys who used to drive it up there. And I also know Barillaro (who was Johnnys guy) answered to Buffalo. I have police interview reports from after Carmens murder. Im starting to wonder if, to keep the peace, the territory was divided. Rizzuto/ Bannano got gaming, which would be the lions share and Todaro got drugs/ protection? Would that be unheard of? Familes share a patch so they don’t go to war over it?


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[mobinfiltrator]

Except that is the opposite of what he said. Read his post.

No idea. If Dom beat out 30 capos, that means theres at least 150 soldiers. Possible I suppose but also possible (and very likely) for wise guys to exaggerate.

Pogo

Nope, I never said he had 30 capos. Another poster said that what Violi said on wire tape. It’s more than likely an exaggeration on Violis part was my response.


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[mobinfiltrator]

This thread is going to be like 150 pages in a week.

Anyway, welcome to the board.

Thank you [emoji6]


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