Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Newyorkempire]

Something funny, and I've mentioned her before, I'm friends with someone going on 15 years, we dated back in the day but have been friends longer. She's from Buffalo but has lived in both Cleveland and Elizabeth, NJ and she only knows there were Crime Families there because I told her. She's not juiced in so that's not a surprise. She did however date a local Italian from Elizabeth who never heard of it either. Granted these people never did a search for Mafia online but the point is, it's not widely felt to people not like us who aren't looking for it.

She's been to La Nova infrequently, loves the wings. Told her the Todaro backstory and she said "that's crazy" and that's it. I never asked her about the strip club, what's the name and I'll ask.

Wait a minute. According to several people here simply living in a city gives one insights into the inner working of the local crime family that people who don't live in said city can't possibly have. How can this be?


Pogo

If someone's saying that I don't know, but I wasn't saying that. I was mentioning that a non-affiliated and non-Italian citizen lived in all three cities and from her perspective these groups were not visible. Cleveland's no surprise and Buffalo is the topic, but the DeCavs aren't up for argument. And even someone, a mainland Italian who lived in Elizabeth his entire life had no idea.

Aimed and me and Rooster. We caught grief for it on GBB and still get it in here. Problem is I don’t use it to win a debate, but to make a point that sometimes people in WNY know and here things that make it easier to find information and keep track of what is happening. I am not going to discount my experience just because a couple people on these board don’t like me using it. My kids went to school and played ball with members and associated kids. I have talked with federal LE and journalist. People don’t have to believe me, but I don’t have to discount my experience because people say I shouldn’t use it.

+1

[Angelo Santino]

Well there's truth to that. Due to my close proximity to Detroit city I encountered Carlo Bommarito at a car show and sat in his car while he showed off the speakers. I found out from online years later that he became a member. I can say, from experience, that he was known as the son of a rich kid. I never heard mafia. At the same time, it doesn't give me insight as to who's who or who holds what in the Detroit Family.

Every vantage point has its limitations, same goes for made members.

[Newyorkempire]

Well, mofos, I've been to La Nova and let me tell you guys living in Arizona or Montana the real deal.. it's nothing special. There's some fresh street talk for youse.

Its good quality. Try Mattinas next time or Molinaras

[NickleCity]

Well, mofos, I've been to La Nova and let me tell you guys living in Arizona or Montana the real deal.. it's nothing special. There's some fresh street talk for youse.

Its good quality. Try Mattinas next time or Molinaras

Is Molinaras Mike Molinaros place on Sheridan? Not been to that one but his place in Lockport is the bomb.

[Newyorkempire]

Well, mofos, I've been to La Nova and let me tell you guys living in Arizona or Montana the real deal.. it's nothing special. There's some fresh street talk for youse.

Its good quality. Try Mattinas next time or Molinaras

Is Molinaras Mike Molinaros place on Sheridan? Not been to that one but his place in Lockport is the bomb.

Yes

[Angelo Santino]

Well, mofos, I've been to La Nova and let me tell you guys living in Arizona or Montana the real deal.. it's nothing special. There's some fresh street talk for youse.

Its good quality. Try Mattinas next time or Molinaras

Honestly, I'm not good but fucking great at making Italian dishes and pizza that I never go. With the exception of invites and gatherings, I never go to Ital places, unless its something I can't make myself and when I encounter such an establishment I tip about 50-100%.

Here's what I made today-

[NickleCity]

Well, mofos, I've been to La Nova and let me tell you guys living in Arizona or Montana the real deal.. it's nothing special. There's some fresh street talk for youse.

Its good quality. Try Mattinas next time or Molinaras

Honestly, I'm not good but fucking great at making Italian dishes and pizza that I never go. With the exception of invites and gatherings, I never go to Ital places, unless its something I can't make myself and when I encounter such an establishment I tip about 50-100%.

Here's what I made today-

OMG that looks amazing!

[Newyorkempire]

Yum

[Angelo Santino]

Here is what we’ve got:

Mob Associates
Militello
Serio
Masecchia
Bella

Possible Made Man
Masecchia (If yes, when did it happen? Could there have been more who were made? Could there have been other making ceremonies?

Boss
Todaro (Jr)

Add what we learned about Canada in 2017
Underboss
Violi (Made in 2015? Promoted early 2017?)

Capo
Rocco Luppino

Soldier
Nat Luppino
Joe Violi given option to be made in Buffalo or Bonanno

LOL. That's more than the prosecutor has done, I'll give you that. But does this look like a formally structured, cohesive LCN family to you or simply the scattered remnants of a family that once was?

You know it's really hard to tell since the info was pieced together from different sources and not a singular entity such as a Gravano spilling the beans. But each source, when put together, points to the existence of a formal Buffalo Family- Boss, Under, Captains, Soldiers, Associates and activity, so labeling them "remnants" is like labeling Bellomo and what's going on with him today the remnants of the Chin Gigante Organization.

And now the argument has drifted towards these low-level dealers being wannabes which I don't really get. No one is saying that the Mafia is a monolithic group of supercriminals. Quite the opposite in fact.

And all that aside, the NY Bonannos recognize them, that should be enough even for the most fervent skeptic. Would there be any member who looked at this forum and the arguments against them made go running to Mancuso: "Noooo. Todaro doesn't even have a consigliere, and there's only one captain listed, we need to blacklist these buncha remnants." Answer is no. We as outsiders aren't seeing all that's there and stating that is a big difference from jumping to conclusions and implying Todaro is a criminal mastermind who evaded law enforcement.

[Clark]

One piece of information that I always found interesting is that according to Joe Violi, Cece Luppino was offered the opportunity to be made:

According to an excerpt of a police-recorded conversation between Cece's cousin, Giuseppe (Joey) Violi, and a police agent in February 2015, Violi says Cece was asked if he wanted to be "made," but thought it wasn't worth the aggravation.
"Cece told his dad if could make money, then he would be involved; if no money, then he doesn't want to be involved; that there are too many headaches," the court document says.
"Cece told his father he watched his father struggle for 30 years, and that Cece does not want to struggle for 30 years; and if he does have to, then he doesn't want it."

I don't want to comment on how valid the statement is/was (ie. the infamous Dom Violi "thirty guys" line), but this was obviously mentioned to the police informer before Cece's death. I have always wondered about it because, according to sources, Cece was not heavily involved in the life, had no serious criminal record etc. We all know that the fastest way into the mob is often your family connections though, so who knows? It also makes you wonder who else may have been proposed and if they were ever made, or if this was just talk?

The fact we have seen Dom Violi made relatively recently, a young family member of his maybe proposed etc. means that there is someone still making people into this family, which I think might be the huge difference between some of the other dying/dead families that Buffalo rightfully gets discussed with.

Now, it could all be related to the Canadian side of the border, as I think it is safe to say things are pretty alive and well in Hamilton because you don't see bodies dropping unless there is some more serious criminal activity occurring, but someone in the US is either making these people or providing their blessing to have them made.

Without going into the whole "I live here so I know it," I think most of us can acknowledge that there are more than just Nat and Rocco Luppino and Dom Violi made into the Buffalo family on the Canadian side of the border. And I am not trying to blow things up in the sense of "there are dozens of made guys on the Canadian side of the border," but rather there is another small handful of names that have been viewed as strong candidates for years or implied in the newspaper without explicitly naming their names (ie. the person that was reported to be succeeding Barillaro after his murder). Unfortunately, Canada just does not get the same sort of law enforcement/court releases that the US does (ie. you look at the information that was withheld and then never came out after Violi pled guilty).

Either way, always an interesting debate to read. I think everyone gets caught up in the way Wiseguy defines what he is looking at, where I think it is valid for him to look at things in the factual way that he does, and instead it turns into this argument about if Buffalo a resurging mob superpower-type thing. My personal guess is that it is like any remaining LCN family in the US that is naturally declining and will continue to decline, albeit all at different speeds. Where I find it is interesting is that Buffalo probably doesn't yet fall into the same category as families like Cleveland etc., and that it may even have a little more life left than everyone once thought. How strong though? I think the only indicator of that will be cases, and my bet is that once Todaro dies things really wind down as a lot of the activity still seems to be related to his close relations and long-time family connections/friends etc., with him still somehow at the center of it, nominal or not.

[Newyorkempire]

One piece of information that I always found interesting is that according to Joe Violi, Cece Luppino was offered the opportunity to be made:

According to an excerpt of a police-recorded conversation between Cece's cousin, Giuseppe (Joey) Violi, and a police agent in February 2015, Violi says Cece was asked if he wanted to be "made," but thought it wasn't worth the aggravation.
"Cece told his dad if could make money, then he would be involved; if no money, then he doesn't want to be involved; that there are too many headaches," the court document says.
"Cece told his father he watched his father struggle for 30 years, and that Cece does not want to struggle for 30 years; and if he does have to, then he doesn't want it."

I don't want to comment on how valid the statement is/was (ie. the infamous Dom Violi "thirty guys" line), but this was obviously mentioned to the police informer before Cece's death. I have always wondered about it because, according to sources, Cece was not heavily involved in the life, had no serious criminal record etc. We all know that the fastest way into the mob is often your family connections though, so who knows? It also makes you wonder who else may have been proposed and if they were ever made, or if this was just talk?

The fact we have seen Dom Violi made relatively recently, a young family member of his maybe proposed etc. means that there is someone still making people into this family, which I think might be the huge difference between some of the other dying/dead families that Buffalo rightfully gets discussed with.

Now, it could all be related to the Canadian side of the border, as I think it is safe to say things are pretty alive and well in Hamilton because you don't see bodies dropping unless there is some more serious criminal activity occurring, but someone in the US is either making these people or providing their blessing to have them made.

Without going into the whole "I live here so I know it," I think most of us can acknowledge that there are more than just Nat and Rocco Luppino and Dom Violi made into the Buffalo family on the Canadian side of the border. And I am not trying to blow things up in the sense of "there are dozens of made guys on the Canadian side of the border," but rather there is another small handful of names that have been viewed as strong candidates for years or implied in the newspaper without explicitly naming their names (ie. the person that was reported to be succeeding Barillaro after his murder). Unfortunately, Canada just does not get the same sort of law enforcement/court releases that the US does (ie. you look at the information that was withheld and then never came out after Violi pled guilty).

Either way, always an interesting debate to read. I think everyone gets caught up in the way Wiseguy defines what he is looking at, where I think it is valid for him to look at things in the factual way that he does, and instead it turns into this argument about if Buffalo a resurging mob superpower-type thing. My personal guess is that it is like any remaining LCN family in the US that is naturally declining and will continue to decline, albeit all at different speeds. Where I find it is interesting is that Buffalo probably doesn't yet fall into the same category as families like Cleveland etc., and that it may even have a little more life left then everyone once thought. How strong though? I think the only indicator of that will be cases, and my bet is that once Todaro dies things really wind down as a lot of the activity still seems to be related to his close relations and long-time family connections/friends etc., with him still somehow at the center of it, nominal or not.

+1

[Angelo Santino]

One piece of information that I always found interesting is that according to Joe Violi, Cece Luppino was offered the opportunity to be made:

According to an excerpt of a police-recorded conversation between Cece's cousin, Giuseppe (Joey) Violi, and a police agent in February 2015, Violi says Cece was asked if he wanted to be "made," but thought it wasn't worth the aggravation.
"Cece told his dad if could make money, then he would be involved; if no money, then he doesn't want to be involved; that there are too many headaches," the court document says.
"Cece told his father he watched his father struggle for 30 years, and that Cece does not want to struggle for 30 years; and if he does have to, then he doesn't want it."

I don't want to comment on how valid the statement is/was (ie. the infamous Dom Violi "thirty guys" line), but this was obviously mentioned to the police informer before Cece's death. I have always wondered about it because, according to sources, Cece was not heavily involved in the life, had no serious criminal record etc. We all know that the fastest way into the mob is often your family connections though, so who knows? It also makes you wonder who else may have been proposed and if they were ever made, or if this was just talk?

The fact we have seen Dom Violi made relatively recently, a young family member of his maybe proposed etc. means that there is someone still making people into this family, which I think might be the huge difference between some of the other dying/dead families that Buffalo rightfully gets discussed with.

Now, it could all be related to the Canadian side of the border, as I think it is safe to say things are pretty alive and well in Hamilton because you don't see bodies dropping unless there is some more serious criminal activity occurring, but someone in the US is either making these people or providing their blessing to have them made.

Without going into the whole "I live here so I know it," I think most of us can acknowledge that there are more than just Nat and Rocco Luppino and Dom Violi made into the Buffalo family on the Canadian side of the border. And I am not trying to blow things up in the sense of "there are dozens of made guys on the Canadian side of the border," but rather there is another small handful of names that have been viewed as strong candidates for years or implied in the newspaper without explicitly naming their names (ie. the person that was reported to be succeeding Barillaro after his murder). Unfortunately, Canada just does not get the same sort of law enforcement/court releases that the US does (ie. you look at the information that was withheld and then never came out after Violi pled guilty).

Either way, always an interesting debate to read. I think everyone gets caught up in the way Wiseguy defines what he is looking at, where I think it is valid for him to look at things in the factual way that he does, and instead it turns into this argument about if Buffalo a resurging mob superpower-type thing. My personal guess is that it is like any remaining LCN family in the US that is naturally declining and will continue to decline, albeit all at different speeds. Where I find it is interesting is that Buffalo probably doesn't yet fall into the same category as families like Cleveland etc., and that it may even have a little more life left than everyone once thought. How strong though? I think the only indicator of that will be cases, and my bet is that once Todaro dies things really wind down as a lot of the activity still seems to be related to his close relations and long-time family connections/friends etc., with him still somehow at the center of it, nominal or not.

Well that's the ongoing argument. There isn't a family in Buffalo because there's no formal structure. Oh, Dom Violi claims he's underboss who ID'd Joe Toadaro as boss well he's just bragging. Cece Luppino is called a Capo by Canadian press well that's just hype. Where's the criminal activity? Oh those drug dealers don't matter they're just wannabes who happen to be related. We've reached a point where a making ceremony could recorded and someone would claim they were simply roleplaying and that it's nothing but fanboys buying into hype.

No one's claiming to know everything, but we are being asked to overlook what's come out and to not do so is to be a someone hoping against hope that the family exists.

One question I have is, when has a member ever went to a member of another family and lied about his position? It will come back and there will be repercussions for such a lie. Violi likes to talk? No shit, for god sakes he had Soprano replica in his office. But for him to go to the Bonannos and lie about being Underboss? Doesn't happen. It would be like me stating Soliai made me Acting Boss of the forum, it would would one PM away from being debunked and me losing serious face in the eyes of our members once Soliai replied: "Huh? I have no idea WTF CC is talking about."

[Newyorkempire]

One piece of information that I always found interesting is that according to Joe Violi, Cece Luppino was offered the opportunity to be made:

According to an excerpt of a police-recorded conversation between Cece's cousin, Giuseppe (Joey) Violi, and a police agent in February 2015, Violi says Cece was asked if he wanted to be "made," but thought it wasn't worth the aggravation.
"Cece told his dad if could make money, then he would be involved; if no money, then he doesn't want to be involved; that there are too many headaches," the court document says.
"Cece told his father he watched his father struggle for 30 years, and that Cece does not want to struggle for 30 years; and if he does have to, then he doesn't want it."

I don't want to comment on how valid the statement is/was (ie. the infamous Dom Violi "thirty guys" line), but this was obviously mentioned to the police informer before Cece's death. I have always wondered about it because, according to sources, Cece was not heavily involved in the life, had no serious criminal record etc. We all know that the fastest way into the mob is often your family connections though, so who knows? It also makes you wonder who else may have been proposed and if they were ever made, or if this was just talk?

The fact we have seen Dom Violi made relatively recently, a young family member of his maybe proposed etc. means that there is someone still making people into this family, which I think might be the huge difference between some of the other dying/dead families that Buffalo rightfully gets discussed with.

Now, it could all be related to the Canadian side of the border, as I think it is safe to say things are pretty alive and well in Hamilton because you don't see bodies dropping unless there is some more serious criminal activity occurring, but someone in the US is either making these people or providing their blessing to have them made.

Without going into the whole "I live here so I know it," I think most of us can acknowledge that there are more than just Nat and Rocco Luppino and Dom Violi made into the Buffalo family on the Canadian side of the border. And I am not trying to blow things up in the sense of "there are dozens of made guys on the Canadian side of the border," but rather there is another small handful of names that have been viewed as strong candidates for years or implied in the newspaper without explicitly naming their names (ie. the person that was reported to be succeeding Barillaro after his murder). Unfortunately, Canada just does not get the same sort of law enforcement/court releases that the US does (ie. you look at the information that was withheld and then never came out after Violi pled guilty).

Either way, always an interesting debate to read. I think everyone gets caught up in the way Wiseguy defines what he is looking at, where I think it is valid for him to look at things in the factual way that he does, and instead it turns into this argument about if Buffalo a resurging mob superpower-type thing. My personal guess is that it is like any remaining LCN family in the US that is naturally declining and will continue to decline, albeit all at different speeds. Where I find it is interesting is that Buffalo probably doesn't yet fall into the same category as families like Cleveland etc., and that it may even have a little more life left than everyone once thought. How strong though? I think the only indicator of that will be cases, and my bet is that once Todaro dies things really wind down as a lot of the activity still seems to be related to his close relations and long-time family connections/friends etc., with him still somehow at the center of it, nominal or not.

Well that's the ongoing argument. There isn't a family in Buffalo because there's no formal structure. Oh, Dom Violi claims he's underboss who ID'd Joe Toadaro as boss well he's just bragging. Cece Luppino is called a Capo by Canadian press well that's just hype. Where's the criminal activity? Oh those drug dealers doesn't matter they're just wannabes who happen to be related. I swear a fucking making ceremony would recorded and someone would claim they were roleplaying and that it's nothing but fanboys buying into hype.

No one's claiming to know everything, but we are being asked to overlook what's come out and to not do so is to be a fanboy hoping the family exists.
H
One question I have is, when has a member every went to a member of another family and lied about his rank? It will come back and there will be repercussions for such a lie. Violi likes to talk? No shit, for god sakes he had Soprano replica in his office. But for him to go to the Bonannos and lie about being Underboss? Doesn't happen. It would be like me stating Solai put me in charge of the forum, it would would one PM away from being debunked and me losing serious face in the eyes of our members.

That was the original push by certain posters, that he was lying and that he was puffing up to look important.

[Clark]

I am with you on that. I think that is the problem with the whole debate is the implication that you are a fanboy if you want to believe that Buffalo is still alive; however, there is more than enough information out there that the conversation is completely relevant to what we discuss here. I also acknowledge though that Wiseguy has been one of the key people that has always prevented this board from turning into GBB.

My personal opinion is that Dom Violi wasn't lying. He has one of the strongest mafia pedigrees in Canada, was raised into the life, and is a logical candidate to rise to the position given his family's long-standing ties to Buffalo. I also think he will be out soon and straight back into the life. That is what makes the conversation about Buffalo so interesting, as we wouldn't be having the same discussion concerning Cleveland, Northeast PA etc.

[Newyorkempire]

I am with you on that. I think that is the problem with the whole debate is the implication that you are a fanboy if you want to believe that Buffalo is still alive; however, there is more than enough information out there that the conversation is completely relevant to what we discuss here. I also acknowledge though that Wiseguy has been one of the key people that has always prevented this board from turning into GBB.

My personal opinion is that Dom Violi wasn't lying. He has one of the strongest mafia pedigrees in Canada, was raised into the life, and is a logical candidate to rise to the position given his family's long-standing ties to Buffalo. I also think he will be out soon and straight back into the life. That is what makes the conversation about Buffalo so interesting, as we wouldn't be having the same discussion concerning Cleveland, Northeast PA etc.

+1

Hes been out for a bit. He may even have left the halfway house by now.