General Mob Questions

[Pogo The Clown]

Great stuff Tony. Thanks.


So while in all likelihood the Northsiders were behind the hit I'm assuming that there is really nothing to support the claim that the shooters were Hymie Weiss, Bugs Moran and Vincent Drucci?


Pogo

[Dwalin2014]

Great stuff Tony. Thanks.


So while in all likelihood the Northsiders were behind the hit I'm assuming that there is really nothing to support the claim that the shooters were Hymie Weiss, Bugs Moran and Vincent Drucci?


Pogo

In the book about Bugs Moran by Rose Keefe it's said there was a witness, Peter Veesaert, who identified Moran as one of the shooters, but there was no corroborating evidence, so they had to let him go.

[B.]

Another Boardwalk Empire question. In the show it is heavily implied that Capone was behind the attempted murder of Johnny Torrio. Was this just artistic license or was there something to this? All accounts have the hit being carried out by the North Side gang in retaliation for the murder of Dion O'Bannion.


Also since Torrio stepped away from the scene in 1925 I'm assuming he never became an inducted member of LCN despite his pivotal role in forming the Chicago mob?


Pogo

The Chicago papers published articles in the ‘20s implicating Capone in the attack on Torrio in order to drive him out of town. I personally doubt that and assume that the attack on Torrio was indeed executed by the O’Bannion gang, but maybe the authors of the show came across one of those accounts. We don’t have an insider account of what happened with Torrio, however, and sometimes these things turn out to have played out differently than we would assume given the info at hand. For example, most accounts have assumed that Joe Aiello had Tony Lombardo clipped, but Nick Gentile claimed that Lombardo was actually whacked by Capone on the orders of Masseria. By all appearances Capone and Lombardo were personally close, so it wouldn’t seem like Capone was behind it, but that’s what Gentile says and we don’t have a better source to discount his claim.

No info specifically indicating that Torrio was a member of the mafia, so far as I know, has ever surfaced. I think that it’s possible that he could’ve been inducted into the Genovese Family at some point, but he may have just remained a highly respected associate of the mafia (I think it’s possible that Colosimo could’ve been a member as well, as we know that Diamond Joe Esposito was made by Chicago. Just a personal speculation and we may never be able to confirm or deny it). The closest that I’ve seen to Torrio being called a member came in Bill Bonanno’s “Last Testament”, where Bill cited Torrio (who attended Bill and Rosalie’s wedding) as an example of a guy who retired from the life, without explicitly stating that he was a member of a particular Borgata.

Since finding out Joe Esposito was made by the early 1920s it def opens more possibilities for some of these guys.

I haven't seen a lot of FBI investigation into Torrio but there's a file where they mention his close association with all of the top Genovese leaders after he moved to NYC. If he wasn't made, he had to have turned it down or they deliberately excluded him. Mainlanders with their own groups were made around the country in the 1920s, including in Chicago, and Torrio had access to the highest levels of the Genovese so I wouldn't rule him out.

[Pogo The Clown]

Great stuff Tony. Thanks.


So while in all likelihood the Northsiders were behind the hit I'm assuming that there is really nothing to support the claim that the shooters were Hymie Weiss, Bugs Moran and Vincent Drucci?


Pogo

In the book about Bugs Moran by Rose Keefe it's said there was a witness, Peter Veesaert, who identified Moran as one of the shooters, but there was no corroborating evidence, so they had to let him go.

Thanks Dwalin. Do we have an idea of how big the Northside gang was at their peak? On Wiki (I know) it says they had around 30 members but I don't know where that info comes from. Seems kind of low considering the territory they controlled and the power they wielded in Chicago.


Pogo

[PolackTony]

Great stuff Tony. Thanks.


So while in all likelihood the Northsiders were behind the hit I'm assuming that there is really nothing to support the claim that the shooters were Hymie Weiss, Bugs Moran and Vincent Drucci?


Pogo

In the book about Bugs Moran by Rose Keefe it's said there was a witness, Peter Veesaert, who identified Moran as one of the shooters, but there was no corroborating evidence, so they had to let him go.

Thanks Dwalin. Do we have an idea of how big the Northside gang was at their peak? On Wiki (I know) it says they had around 30 members but I don't know where that info comes from. Seems kind of low considering the territory they controlled and the power they wielded in Chicago.


Pogo

Not sure. Not sure what a claim as to their “membership” would even mean, as I don’t think that it was a formally organized entity like the mafia with a clear definition of “member”.

[Pogo The Clown]

Larry Gallo was also made. I think Joseph "Joe Jelly" Gioeli was another one. If I remember right Henry Fontana was another made member that was part of the faction but he quickly defected to the Profaci side.


Pogo

There you go, I read it was only Mooney & Crazy Joey. Also I think I heard about Gioeli as well. Larry I didn’t know. Harry Fontana, wasn’t he given his own crew after the war?

Fontana was a Capo before the war. John "Mooney" Cutrone was another made member who was part of the Gallo faction.


Pogo

[heve23]

After the death of Joe Zerilli, who represented the Detroit family on the Commission? I know Lonardo said it was Chicago, but I've also heard it was the Genovese?

[Rat]

The Cali cartel had pretty extensive operations in New York specifically Queens in the mid 80s till the late 90s, is there any info on interactions between the Cali Cartel and LCN?

[Rat]

Also I know the Genovese are referred to as the westside, do any of the other four families have a nickname?

[Ivan]

Also I know the Genovese are referred to as the westside, do any of the other four families have a nickname?

I've heard "the Lukes" for the Luccheses but rumor has it that if you actually say this you turn gay

[JeremyTheJew]

The Cali cartel had pretty extensive operations in New York specifically Queens in the mid 80s till the late 90s, is there any info on interactions between the Cali Cartel and LCN?

Griselda blanco started out In nyc but I think it was before the eighties

John Richie roberts who I think is really Italian was also a associate for the binos I believe

[Shellackhead]

I’ve been reading LCNBios page. And I started to wonder, what happens when a guy migrates to the US, he becomes a made man but then gets deported? Does he need to be formerly introduced to other mafiosi (let’s say he’s from Palermo) from the Sicilian mafia or that third party introduction tule only applies to the American LCN?

[Sullycantwell]

Do you guys think that Guiseppe Fontana was a boss of what we would now call the Colombo family?

[Antiliar]

Do you guys think that Guiseppe Fontana was a boss of what we would now call the Colombo family?

If you're talking about the one killed in 1913, then no. He was ID'd as a D'Aquila member. Manfredi Mineo was apparently running what became the Colombo Family.

[Sullycantwell]

Was Joe Kennedy seriously a bootlegger? If so, how involved was he with the mob. I thought I heard somewhere the claim he was a bootlegger wasn’t true.