General Mob Questions

[slimshady_007]

How has the relationship between the westside and the Gambinos been since Gotti passed away? Is there still tension?

[thekiduknow]

Going through the Scarpa files, and reading "Deal with the Devil", I've become interested in Calogero "Charles the Sidge" LoCicero. Anyone have any good biographical info on him?

As I'm sure most of are aware, he was acting consiglieri to Profaci during the Gallo rebellion, but appeared to have been demoted when Magliocco took over, who he seemed to hate with a passion, and tried to get Scarpa to kill at one point.

Locicero was killed a few years later, Lance argues it was Scarpa who killed him. Scarpa blamed LoCicero's own son Frank, while a few random internet sources as well as one book say his murder was part of the Bonanno war.

Any leads would be great, I love reading about more obscure members.

[Mason_dixon]

Does anyone have a website to stream the sopranos series from?

[aleksandrored]

Does anyone know where I can find this chart with better quality? even with zoom the quality is not good.
https://mafiacharts.wordpress.com/2017/ ... ine-chart/

[Super]

Don't know when he was made but the Bonanno family's books were closed from 1979-1984 by the Commission due to all the turmoil.


Pogo

could they have made a few on the sneak seems a long time

[B.]

Don't know when he was made but the Bonanno family's books were closed from 1979-1984 by the Commission due to all the turmoil.


Pogo

We can't say for certain that this applied to Montreal too. It has been suggested here (I believe it was B. and I hope he chimes in) that in Montreal guys were being made even though in New York the books were closed. The most significant example would be Paolo Violi. He joined the Montreal group years after the books were closed and yet was the number 2 in the group by the early 70s. His participation in the vote for Rastelli as boss makes it a fact that he was made by then. However, I find it unlikely that he was already a member before the 1960s so he would've been most likely made within this period.

As for Vito, I also do not think he was already made by '78 mainly due to the turbulant period and the transition of power from Cotroni to Sciascia and Nicolo Rizzuto, which probably took a few years. But I do believe Vito was next in line to be made by the late 70s and groomed for leadership. Not for nothing he was an invitee at the Bono wedding and I believe that he was rewarded with membership after making his bones by participating in the three capos murder.

If what you guys say is true and no exceptions were allowed (not even in Montreal), perhaps he was basically recognised as a made member until it was made official in the mid 80s? Similar to John Gotti in the early 70s? I'd still find it strange that he wasn't made by the time he was acting on his father's behalf in the early 80s and I'm inclined to believe he was made earlier than '84.

Request for the mods: could this discussion be moved to the Montreal made members thread?

One of the accusations the Commission made against Joe Bonanno in the 1960s was that he inducted members without permission. This was likely outside of NYC, with Montreal being most likely, as one of Magaddino's complaints was that Bonanno expanded the Montreal crew beyond the 10 members he had been allowed. Violi may have been one of these recruits. By the 1970s we know from the Violi wiretaps that the Montreal crew could not make members because the books were closed and they followed the rules. Any earlier inductions that may have taken place seem to have been a product of Joe Bonanno's defiance of the Commission and not typical of Montreal itself.

The Montreal members/associates participation in the three captains murder shows that they were acting in line with the Bonanno leadership and the Commission and would accordingly follow the rules when it came to inductions. Vitale participated in the three captain murders and wasn't made until 1984, so the same would apply to Rizzuto if he hadn't been made before Galante died. Associates can def have stature and respect, but it's a myth that associates were given some kind of "unofficial" membership like Gotti.

[Lupara]

Don't know when he was made but the Bonanno family's books were closed from 1979-1984 by the Commission due to all the turmoil.


Pogo

We can't say for certain that this applied to Montreal too. It has been suggested here (I believe it was B. and I hope he chimes in) that in Montreal guys were being made even though in New York the books were closed. The most significant example would be Paolo Violi. He joined the Montreal group years after the books were closed and yet was the number 2 in the group by the early 70s. His participation in the vote for Rastelli as boss makes it a fact that he was made by then. However, I find it unlikely that he was already a member before the 1960s so he would've been most likely made within this period.

As for Vito, I also do not think he was already made by '78 mainly due to the turbulant period and the transition of power from Cotroni to Sciascia and Nicolo Rizzuto, which probably took a few years. But I do believe Vito was next in line to be made by the late 70s and groomed for leadership. Not for nothing he was an invitee at the Bono wedding and I believe that he was rewarded with membership after making his bones by participating in the three capos murder.

If what you guys say is true and no exceptions were allowed (not even in Montreal), perhaps he was basically recognised as a made member until it was made official in the mid 80s? Similar to John Gotti in the early 70s? I'd still find it strange that he wasn't made by the time he was acting on his father's behalf in the early 80s and I'm inclined to believe he was made earlier than '84.

Request for the mods: could this discussion be moved to the Montreal made members thread?

One of the accusations the Commission made against Joe Bonanno in the 1960s was that he inducted members without permission. This was likely outside of NYC, with Montreal being most likely, as one of Magaddino's complaints was that Bonanno expanded the Montreal crew beyond the 10 members he had been allowed. Violi may have been one of these recruits. By the 1970s we know from the Violi wiretaps that the Montreal crew could not make members because the books were closed and they followed the rules. Any earlier inductions that may have taken place seem to have been a product of Joe Bonanno's defiance of the Commission and not typical of Montreal itself.

The Montreal members/associates participation in the three captains murder shows that they were acting in line with the Bonanno leadership and the Commission and would accordingly follow the rules when it came to inductions. Vitale participated in the three captain murders and wasn't made until 1984, so the same would apply to Rizzuto if he hadn't been made before Galante died. Associates can def have stature and respect, but it's a myth that associates were given some kind of "unofficial" membership like Gotti.

What do you make of his attendance at the Bono wedding? Weren't such events generally for members and their families or were associates invited too?

(Basciano not counting since he was probably not an invitee and was allowed to attend at the last minute because he was with Trinchera.)

[B.]

There were many non-members / associates at the Bono wedding.

[DPG]

When did the term ‘Godfather’ start being used to describe the boss of a mafia family?

Did Puzo start the use of the term or was it being used before his book came out?

[Lupara]

When did the term ‘Godfather’ start being used to describe the boss of a mafia family?

Did Puzo start the use of the term or was it being used before his book came out?

I believe it was Puzo who came up with the term specifically to describe a Mafia boss.

[HairyKnuckles]

When did the term ‘Godfather’ start being used to describe the boss of a mafia family?

Did Puzo start the use of the term or was it being used before his book came out?

I believe it was Puzo who came up with the term specifically to describe a Mafia boss.

Well, Valachi used the term during the Senate Hearings and that was before Puzo´s book came out. This is when the term started to be used in general by the media. After the Puzo book, and especially the motion picture, everybody started to use the term. I´m not sure where Valachi got it from but my guess is that some wiseguys used the term to describe someone who was totering somebody into the Mafia life.

[Lupara]

When did the term ‘Godfather’ start being used to describe the boss of a mafia family?

Did Puzo start the use of the term or was it being used before his book came out?

I believe it was Puzo who came up with the term specifically to describe a Mafia boss.

Well, Valachi used the term during the Senate Hearings and that was before Puzo´s book came out. This is when the term started to be used in general by the media. After the Puzo book, and especially the motion picture, everybody started to use the term. I´m not sure where Valachi got it from but my guess is that some wiseguys used the term to describe someone who was totering somebody into the Mafia life.

Did Valachi specifically state that it was commonly used by wiseguys to describe the boss? Ofcourse Puzo based everything he wrote on the Valachi papers and what was known about the Banana war.

[HairyKnuckles]

When did the term ‘Godfather’ start being used to describe the boss of a mafia family?

Did Puzo start the use of the term or was it being used before his book came out?

I believe it was Puzo who came up with the term specifically to describe a Mafia boss.

Well, Valachi used the term during the Senate Hearings and that was before Puzo´s book came out. This is when the term started to be used in general by the media. After the Puzo book, and especially the motion picture, everybody started to use the term. I´m not sure where Valachi got it from but my guess is that some wiseguys used the term to describe someone who was totering somebody into the Mafia life.

Did Valachi specifically state that it was commonly used by wiseguys to describe the boss?

I don´t think he did. I´m not sure about that. Someone better versed will have to chip in here. But he did describe that Joseph Bonanno was designated to be his godfather when he was made. At the time Bonanno was not boss.

[JeremyTheJew]

Bonanno used the term in his book but not as the boss of HIS Fanily which he simply reffwred to the boss as The Father

[Lupara]

Bonanno used the term in his book but not as the boss of HIS Fanily which he simply reffwred to the boss as The Father

Bonanno also denied having anything to do with Valachi, who claimed that he was sponsored into the mob by Bonanno.

https://youtu.be/IR24TZPSLWk