General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[Ivan]

They are a rough family for sure, multi-generational gangbangers and career criminals.

I get a similar impression when I read about most of the people around the Outfit now. Except for maybe the octogenarian (and older, lol) element, it doesn't seem to be a bunch of Angelo Bruno types. Just very rough guys.

[NorthBuffalo]

Anyone know is this is really Paul Koroluk's son? What a violent life these guys expose their kids to - I was told Koroluk Jr. was also in prison for 15 years at age 18 for shooting someone at a birthday party on Chicago's West Side. https://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/ ... roof-vests

The date in the article is from 13 years ago anybody know how much time he got and what he's up to now?

I never saw any follow up regarding whether he was convicted (I’d assume so) or what kind of sentence he received. Either way, he’s not in the IL inmate locator system, so he’s out. No clue what he’s up to now but I’d imagine something illegal.

I wonder if the fact these guys served so much time in prison without being killed by the Cartels and multiple drug dealing gangs they were ripping off shows the Outfit still has juice in prison. I have to assume any prison that is predominantly latino has plenty of Cartel types doing their bidding - what Panozzo and Koroluk (and apparently both of their sons) were doing is a certifiable death sentence - yet they seem to serve their time without problems.

[PolackTony]

Anyone know is this is really Paul Koroluk's son? What a violent life these guys expose their kids to - I was told Koroluk Jr. was also in prison for 15 years at age 18 for shooting someone at a birthday party on Chicago's West Side. https://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/ ... roof-vests

The date in the article is from 13 years ago anybody know how much time he got and what he's up to now?

I never saw any follow up regarding whether he was convicted (I’d assume so) or what kind of sentence he received. Either way, he’s not in the IL inmate locator system, so he’s out. No clue what he’s up to now but I’d imagine something illegal.

I wonder if the fact these guys served so much time in prison without being killed by the Cartels and multiple drug dealing gangs they were ripping off shows the Outfit still has juice in prison. I have to assume any prison that is predominantly latino has plenty of Cartel types doing their bidding - what Panozzo and Koroluk (and apparently both of their sons) were doing is a certifiable death sentence - yet they seem to serve their time without problems.

They’re C-Notes, so they’re Folks. At least in IL prisons, they presumably have plenty of juice.

[NorthBuffalo]

Anyone know is this is really Paul Koroluk's son? What a violent life these guys expose their kids to - I was told Koroluk Jr. was also in prison for 15 years at age 18 for shooting someone at a birthday party on Chicago's West Side. https://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/ ... roof-vests

The date in the article is from 13 years ago anybody know how much time he got and what he's up to now?

I never saw any follow up regarding whether he was convicted (I’d assume so) or what kind of sentence he received. Either way, he’s not in the IL inmate locator system, so he’s out. No clue what he’s up to now but I’d imagine something illegal.

I wonder if the fact these guys served so much time in prison without being killed by the Cartels and multiple drug dealing gangs they were ripping off shows the Outfit still has juice in prison. I have to assume any prison that is predominantly latino has plenty of Cartel types doing their bidding - what Panozzo and Koroluk (and apparently both of their sons) were doing is a certifiable death sentence - yet they seem to serve their time without problems.

They’re C-Notes, so they’re Folks. At least in IL prisons, they presumably have plenty of juice.

Yeah these were cartel stashhouses though and they haven't been gangbangers in 20 years - they are middle aged white guys. Cartels will kill Folks or Peoples or Bloods or Crypts or whoever fucks with them. I'm a big fan of the Wire and I just couldn't stop thinking of Omar going to jail and everyone going after the guy because he ripped so many people off - I would expect these guys were at least nervous in prison.

[Ivan]

I wonder if the fact these guys served so much time in prison without being killed by the Cartels and multiple drug dealing gangs they were ripping off shows the Outfit still has juice in prison. I have to assume any prison that is predominantly latino has plenty of Cartel types doing their bidding - what Panozzo and Koroluk (and apparently both of their sons) were doing is a certifiable death sentence - yet they seem to serve their time without problems.

If so, I would imagine it's probably more a matter of Cosa Nostra affiliation and networking in general (even for non-Italian associates) rather than Outfit affilation specifically that is keeping them safe.

[Patrickgold]

Anyone know is this is really Paul Koroluk's son? What a violent life these guys expose their kids to - I was told Koroluk Jr. was also in prison for 15 years at age 18 for shooting someone at a birthday party on Chicago's West Side. https://patch.com/illinois/crystallake/ ... roof-vests

The date in the article is from 13 years ago anybody know how much time he got and what he's up to now?

I never saw any follow up regarding whether he was convicted (I’d assume so) or what kind of sentence he received. Either way, he’s not in the IL inmate locator system, so he’s out. No clue what he’s up to now but I’d imagine something illegal.

I wonder if the fact these guys served so much time in prison without being killed by the Cartels and multiple drug dealing gangs they were ripping off shows the Outfit still has juice in prison. I have to assume any prison that is predominantly latino has plenty of Cartel types doing their bidding - what Panozzo and Koroluk (and apparently both of their sons) were doing is a certifiable death sentence - yet they seem to serve their time without problems.

They’re C-Notes, so they’re Folks. At least in IL prisons, they presumably have plenty of juice.

Yeah these were cartel stashhouses though and they haven't been gangbangers in 20 years - they are middle aged white guys. Cartels will kill Folks or Peoples or Bloods or Crypts or whoever fucks with them. I'm a big fan of the Wire and I just couldn't stop thinking of Omar going to jail and everyone going after the guy because he ripped so many people off - I would expect these guys were at least nervous in prison.

Cartels don’t control the prisons in Illinois or anywhere I know in the United States. Folks and Peoples are the rule of law in Illinois just like California has the the Mexican mafia and other groups. Yea the Cartel might be able to reach out to someone about doing a hit in prison but that is a lot harder then a lot know. Prison murders are not a common as they use to be.

[PolackTony]

Baltimore Jail, in a TV show, is not the same as the IL prison system, which, as Patrick said, is run by Folks and People. Old heads, unless disgraced or run out, are still with their organization. Guys like Panozzo and Koroluk are absolutely going to be with the Folks in the joint. These dynamics often aren’t well-grasped by people who only know the mafia side of things. I remember seeing stuff online a few years back like “wow, these guys were kidnapping Latin Kings, they’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in prison!”, when we’re talking about dudes who came up pulling raids and ambush attacks, etc., on Kings, who have been their primary enemies for decades. These guys were formed in a world of urban gang warfare and prison gang politics.

Imagine what the younger cohorts of C-Notes think of guys like Panozzo and Koroluk, not to mention Albie Vena. These dudes are far from nobodies when they hit the IL system. Middle aged, and even older, guys run the system in the prison. White doesn’t matter, it’s not like CA or Texas. C-Notes are “Latin Folks”, and in the joint that is what matters.

[Ivan]

Baltimore Jail, in a TV show, is not the same as the IL prison system, which, as Patrick said, is run by Folks and People. Old heads, unless disgraced or run out, are still with their organization. Guys like Panozzo and Koroluk are absolutely going to be with the Folks in the joint. These dynamics often aren’t well-grasped by people who only know the mafia side of things. I remember seeing stuff online a few years back like “wow, these guys were kidnapping Latin Kings, they’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in prison!”, when we’re talking about dudes who came up pulling raids and ambush attacks, etc., on Kings, who have been their primary enemies for decades. These guys were formed in a world of urban gang warfare and prison gang politics.

Imagine what the younger cohorts of C-Notes think of guys like Panozzo and Koroluk, not to mention Albie Vena. These dudes are far from nobodies when they hit the IL system. Middle aged, and even older, guys run the system in the prison. White doesn’t matter, it’s not like CA or Texas. C-Notes are “Latin Folks”, and in the joint that is what matters.

This is really fascinating stuff that I don't know much about, thanks for spelling it out like that.

So how would Cosa Nostra affiliation factor into all of this in an Illinois jail? Would it be relevant at all?

[Coloboy]

I do understand the discussion surrounding the street/gangbanger type element of the outfit today. These guys are not the stereotypical vision of what somebody pictures from a Scorsese movie.

However, while they certainly dressed nicer back in the day, I wouldn't categorize those old timers as anything less than hardcore gang bangers themselves. Think about how many people they used to kill. They may have dressed nicer, but they were still gangbangers. What do you think Johnny Difronzo was like when he got his nose shot off in that robbery in 1949? Or Aiuppa when he was a boxer named Joey O'Brien?

[PolackTony]

Baltimore Jail, in a TV show, is not the same as the IL prison system, which, as Patrick said, is run by Folks and People. Old heads, unless disgraced or run out, are still with their organization. Guys like Panozzo and Koroluk are absolutely going to be with the Folks in the joint. These dynamics often aren’t well-grasped by people who only know the mafia side of things. I remember seeing stuff online a few years back like “wow, these guys were kidnapping Latin Kings, they’re gonna be in a lot of trouble in prison!”, when we’re talking about dudes who came up pulling raids and ambush attacks, etc., on Kings, who have been their primary enemies for decades. These guys were formed in a world of urban gang warfare and prison gang politics.

Imagine what the younger cohorts of C-Notes think of guys like Panozzo and Koroluk, not to mention Albie Vena. These dudes are far from nobodies when they hit the IL system. Middle aged, and even older, guys run the system in the prison. White doesn’t matter, it’s not like CA or Texas. C-Notes are “Latin Folks”, and in the joint that is what matters.

This is really fascinating stuff that I don't know much about, thanks for spelling it out like that.

So how would Cosa Nostra affiliation factor into all of this in an Illinois jail? Would it be relevant at all?

I don’t have any insight myself as to what LCN itself might mean in the IL system today. I’d suspect that they are “respected” in the way that the mob is “respected” by street guys in other states. I never did time myself but obviously knew a lot of guys who did serious time in Joliet, Stateville, etc back in the day and just recall general comments about mob guys being respected and having clout but no specifics. Any guys back in Chicago that I used to know who have done any time recently are not people that I would like to rekindle contact with, for obvious reasons, but if I talk to anyone who might be in the position to have some insight I will definitely post about it.

I’ve referenced the Lucchese associate from Brooklyn who was working with Chicago guys in the late 90s/2000s before. FWIW, he had a very high opinion of Chicago gang leaders (“those guys are true gangsters”) and also said that in the Federal system there is a lot of mutual respect and contact between Chicago gangbangers and LCN affiliates.

One thing that makes this topic a bit difficult to parse is that in recent decades, whatever respect LCN may still have in the IL system is, I think, not easy to disentangle from their intimate connections to the street gang world. While Grand Ave has very close ties to the C-Notes, who are Folks, Cicero has the same sort of ties to the People via the Players. There have also been various ties between LCN affiliates over the years with Kings, as well as with major Folks organizations like the Maniac Latin Disciples and Spanish Cobras (both of which had significant connections to people in local politics and the latter of which was the organization that actually sponsored the C-Notes to join the Folks). I know that I’ve brought this up several times over the years, but anyone interested in these things at all needs to read “The In$and Chicago Way” by UIC criminologist John Hagedorn. The book discusses the politics of the Latin Folks both on the streets and inside the joint in the 90s, connections between the Grand Ave crew and the Latin Folks aka “Spanish Growth and Development”, and longer standing ties between the outfit and black street gangs like the VLs and BPSN. I can say that the accounts that Hagedorn received from his informants with the Latin Folks align with what I was told and and understood when I was on the streets in the 90s.

https://chicagoreader.com/arts-culture/ ... ino-gangs/

[NorthBuffalo]

So I get the points guys and appreciate it. My buddy in Chicago (who grew up in that neighborhood) agrees and said 'Race don't matter in Chicago - its the neighborhood you come form that matters.' That said, he said the CNotes haven't been around in years and doubts there are many young guys 'coming up.' Most of the gangs in Chicago are 'sets' that only 'click up' in prison. It sounds like all small potatoes, no money to be made. Apparently these guys pushed ecstasy in the 80s and 90s when kids were doing the rave thing and were big money makers. There is no more structure left.

He also says Steven 'Manning' Mandell was a C-Note and that Vena was called 'Handsome' when he ran with his gang. Not sure if thats a street name or not.

Coloboy I think you make a great point - but Aiuppa and DiFronzo were never associating with hispanics and blacks in their gangs - they grew up in a segregated city where Little Italy was still ITalian. By the time Pannozzo and Koroluk were teens, their neighborhood was increasingly hispanic. I would assume they speak a fair bit of Spanish even.

[Patrickgold]

So I get the points guys and appreciate it. My buddy in Chicago (who grew up in that neighborhood) agrees and said 'Race don't matter in Chicago - its the neighborhood you come form that matters.' That said, he said the CNotes haven't been around in years and doubts there are many young guys 'coming up.' Most of the gangs in Chicago are 'sets' that only 'click up' in prison. It sounds like all small potatoes, no money to be made. Apparently these guys pushed ecstasy in the 80s and 90s when kids were doing the rave thing and were big money makers. There is no more structure left.

He also says Steven 'Manning' Mandell was a C-Note and that Vena was called 'Handsome' when he ran with his gang. Not sure if thats a street name or not.

Coloboy I think you make a great point - but Aiuppa and DiFronzo were never associating with hispanics and blacks in their gangs - they grew up in a segregated city where Little Italy was still ITalian. By the time Pannozzo and Koroluk were teens, their neighborhood was increasingly hispanic. I would assume they speak a fair bit of Spanish even.

The c-notes did far more than push ecstasy in the 1980s. Maybe the Jefferson Park set had that reputation but the grand Ave ones were and still are hard core. Most Chicago gangs are broken up now into sets. The leadership that was once was is gone. The C-Notes were never a gangster disciple or Latin King but they held their own and are still around today. Actually the demographics of Taylor Street was always mixed. It was not only Italian like many believe. My dad grew up there in the 40s and 50s and he had black neighbors. There was also Mexicans, Jews and Greeks.

[NorthBuffalo]

So I get the points guys and appreciate it. My buddy in Chicago (who grew up in that neighborhood) agrees and said 'Race don't matter in Chicago - its the neighborhood you come form that matters.' That said, he said the CNotes haven't been around in years and doubts there are many young guys 'coming up.' Most of the gangs in Chicago are 'sets' that only 'click up' in prison. It sounds like all small potatoes, no money to be made. Apparently these guys pushed ecstasy in the 80s and 90s when kids were doing the rave thing and were big money makers. There is no more structure left.

He also says Steven 'Manning' Mandell was a C-Note and that Vena was called 'Handsome' when he ran with his gang. Not sure if thats a street name or not.

Coloboy I think you make a great point - but Aiuppa and DiFronzo were never associating with hispanics and blacks in their gangs - they grew up in a segregated city where Little Italy was still ITalian. By the time Pannozzo and Koroluk were teens, their neighborhood was increasingly hispanic. I would assume they speak a fair bit of Spanish even.

The c-notes did far more than push ecstasy in the 1980s. Maybe the Jefferson Park set had that reputation but the grand Ave ones were and still are hard core. Most Chicago gangs are broken up now into sets. The leadership that was once was is gone. The C-Notes were never a gangster disciple or Latin King but they held their own and are still around today. Actually the demographics of Taylor Street was always mixed. It was not only Italian like many believe. My dad grew up there in the 40s and 50s and he had black neighbors. There was also Mexicans, Jews and Greeks.

Taylor Street had a lot of public housing, right? My buddysaid ecstacy was the major money maker for the C-Notes in the late 80s and through the 1990s. They also sold other drugs and did burglaries but they were the only gang selling ecstacy at one time - wonder if it was the mob connections. Is there a list anywhere of all of the Outfit guys who were C-Notes? This guy says lots of people say even the Spilotro and Lombardo brothers were all CNotes and says that's complete bullshit. He also said Jimmy Boy Cozzo's son Phil Cozzo (who I've seen on charts) was in a different gang (not C-Notes).

[NorthBuffalo]

As an update, this guy also says Paul Koroluk has been out of prison since 2022. Is that correct?

[Patrickgold]

So I get the points guys and appreciate it. My buddy in Chicago (who grew up in that neighborhood) agrees and said 'Race don't matter in Chicago - its the neighborhood you come form that matters.' That said, he said the CNotes haven't been around in years and doubts there are many young guys 'coming up.' Most of the gangs in Chicago are 'sets' that only 'click up' in prison. It sounds like all small potatoes, no money to be made. Apparently these guys pushed ecstasy in the 80s and 90s when kids were doing the rave thing and were big money makers. There is no more structure left.

He also says Steven 'Manning' Mandell was a C-Note and that Vena was called 'Handsome' when he ran with his gang. Not sure if thats a street name or not.

Coloboy I think you make a great point - but Aiuppa and DiFronzo were never associating with hispanics and blacks in their gangs - they grew up in a segregated city where Little Italy was still ITalian. By the time Pannozzo and Koroluk were teens, their neighborhood was increasingly hispanic. I would assume they speak a fair bit of Spanish even.

The c-notes did far more than push ecstasy in the 1980s. Maybe the Jefferson Park set had that reputation but the grand Ave ones were and still are hard core. Most Chicago gangs are broken up now into sets. The leadership that was once was is gone. The C-Notes were never a gangster disciple or Latin King but they held their own and are still around today. Actually the demographics of Taylor Street was always mixed. It was not only Italian like many believe. My dad grew up there in the 40s and 50s and he had black neighbors. There was also Mexicans, Jews and Greeks.

Taylor Street had a lot of public housing, right? My buddysaid ecstacy was the major money maker for the C-Notes in the late 80s and through the 1990s. They also sold other drugs and did burglaries but they were the only gang selling ecstacy at one time - wonder if it was the mob connections. Is there a list anywhere of all of the Outfit guys who were C-Notes? This guy says lots of people say even the Spilotro and Lombardo brothers were all CNotes and says that's complete bullshit. He also said Jimmy Boy Cozzo's son Phil Cozzo (who I've seen on charts) was in a different gang (not C-Notes).

Maybe the C-Notes had a large ecstasy operation but I am not aware of the details. A lot of younger Italian groups were pushing ecstasy in the clubs in the 90s including the Italian playboys and some of the smaller groups. Never heard that Spilotro was a C-Note. He was a full fledged Outfit member by the time the C-Notes started up. Same with Lombardo. He was more of a mentor to the C-Notes from my understanding. A godfather like figure. I’m not sure what other gang Phil Cozzo would have been involved in. His family basically represented the grand and Ogden area, the heart of the c-notes. If he joined any other gang, I would think that would have gone against the neighborhood. He’s been dead almost 10 years. Died of cancer.

Yes Taylor street had the projects but those projects were originally Italians. Taylor street was really a diverse area with certain sections of it being all italian and other areas being other groups. Mexicans were more closer to western and Taylor’s and that is why you saw a lot Mexican Jousters.

Guys like Jimmy I, Harry Aleman and Gerry Scalise were also in gangs before they joined the Outfit. I believe those three were either in the Taylor street Dukes or the Taylor Street Romans.