General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[funkster]

Appears to be an outfit connection in the Weiss trial.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023 ... n-schweihs

[Coloboy]

I’m curious for everyone’s thoughts on what you think Accardo’s “official” position was between two periods of time . First being 1957-1965 or so. Second being 1971 through 1992.

My opinion is that on an official level in the 57-65 period, he was an advisor on an equal plane to that of Giancana, but below Ricca in terms of who had the final say. Accardo’s Conversations with Giancana during this period seem to support this. On an “unofficial” level I would argue they he may have had a higher level of authority than Giancana and an ability to steer the organization the way he wanted from behind the scenes.

For the second period, I am of the opinion that his position was “official”, similar to Ricca before him, and that all of the bosses during that period (battaglia, Aiuppa etc) were ultimately under his authority, although he did not choose to enact that authority all the time.

[PolackTony]

We’ve gone over this quite a bit in the past and no new sources of evidence have surfaced since those prior discussions. Sometimes these Chicago discussions start to feel like Groundhog Day.

From 1956 to his flight from the US in 1966, Giancana was the boss of the Family. We know from Bompensiero, who reported to the FBI directly from a meeting with Alderisio in 1969, that Battaglia succeeded Giancana as boss and that Accardo and Ricca shared the acting boss position after Battaglia was jailed. Sometime around 1975, Aiuppa was officially installed as boss; he may have held an acting position for a bit, but was also know that his health was poor in the early 1970s, which may have delayed him being formally installed as official boss.

We know that Ricca and Accardo participated in the administration of the Family on the Consiglio during Giancana’s tenure. There is no evidence that either of these two had the “final say” or exercised any ultimate authority, whether formally or informally, that superseded that of the Family’s actual boss. Giancana was the boss and I have seen no strong evidence that he didn’t enjoy full executive power in accordance with his office. Now, as was the case in other Families in both the US and Sicily, the rappresentante was not a dictator and his authority was balanced by the Consiglio. We can see that when Giancana was in dereliction of his duties, he was indeed removed by the Consiglio, but up until that point I am not aware that he was ever overruled in any matter or anything like this. We have transcripts of bugs where Giancana is interacting with Accardo and Ricca and discussing mafia affairs, including the affairs of the Commission. The latter two do not tell him what to do or issue orders or directives to him, but rather advise and counsel him based on their experience.

We don’t actually know what Accardo’s formal position was during the period following his removal as boss in 1956 and his later acting boss position. He was evidently a “consigliere” at least in the sense that he was on the Consiglio. He may have technically been a soldier (though obviously just in the sense that he had no formal rank beyond “member”, as “former boss” is not a position in the mafia), or he and Ricca may have shared the role of Chairman or Segretario of the Consiglio (sort of like the Speaker of the House in Congress), the equivalent of the official Consigliere position in Families that did not use a Consiglio. Following Aiuppa’s installation as boss, Accardo almost certainly held this position and the FBI carried him as Chicago’s Consigliere in this period. We don’t know if he held this office until his death or not. The only Chicago member to be asked on the stand about Accardo’s rank was, of course, Nick Calabrese who only stated that he understood Accardo to have been a former boss at the time he was inducted in 1983.

Not to get on a soapbox (and this is not personally directed at Coloboy), but the discussion of Chicago has suffered a lot from an excess of opinion (more often than not passed off as “fact”, which has greatly distorted the conversation on this Family) and a dearth of evidence from actual inside sources. Secret bosses, top bosses, front bosses, back bosses, left and right bosses, before and after bosses. I’ve seen people make all sorts of claims over the years, though the insider evidence that we actually do have underscores that Chicago very much maintained a traditional structure.

[funkster]

I'm with you, and also no offense to CB and mean nothing bad, but seems like this has been discussed to death.

[Eline2015]

So battaglia was officiale rappresentante not acting boss, right?

[PolackTony]

So battaglia was officiale rappresentante not acting boss, right?

As with a lot of things, it is still a bit unclear. Below is what Bompensiero reported to the FBI from his 1969 meeting with Alderisio and Fratianno:





The way the report is worded (which may not be the way that Bompensiero himself put it), makes it seem likely that Battaglia was acting. He was also only on the street for less than a year. Giancana fled the country after being released from Cook County jail for his contempt conviction in June of 1966, while Battaglia was convicted on extortion charges in May of 1967 and thrown in the County jail (he was transferred to Leavenworth to serve his sentence in October). Administration positions in a Family can go unfilled for years; given that Battaglia was already facing serious charges when Giancana fled, I’d think he was not installed as official rappresentante but served in an acting position pending the resolution of his case.

[Antiliar]

I mostly agree with Tony regarding Ricca, but several people told me that Ricca was the final word ever since Capone went prison until his death. That's also Joe Fosco's belief. Fred Pascente in his book Mob Cop recounted an incident from 1970 when he paid a visit to the Armory Lounge. He saw Accardo and greeted him, and Accardo told him to go back and greet the boss first. The boss was Ricca.

On the other hand, there are one or two examples of the Consiglio in action where they took a vote, and Ricca was one of the voters. Officially during the Giancana period Ricca and Accardo may have been ex-bosses who held senior positions on the Consiglio, but unofficially they were undoubtedly first among equals. My opinion is a bit more agnostic since I haven't encountered any contemporary smoking gun that gives out their official titles.

I'll add in the ELSURS where Accardo, Giancana and Ricca are talking the only one who appeared to give orders or who spoke with the most authority was Accardo. This could have been the way he usually spoke to him. Ricca was essentially in the background giving heavily accented color commentary.

However, speaking with authority doesn't always give it away. In a meeting in the late 1930s with Willie Bioff and George Browne, Frank Nitto was doing all the talking, angrily asking why Bioff supported some union leader. After chewing him out for several minutes, Bioff said Ricca said he could support who he thought was best. They all turned around and looked at Ricca, who said something like "that's right." Nitto basically said "never mind," clearly deferring to Ricca, and the meeting ended. Ricca just stood there without intervening.

There was another example, this time with Milwaukee Phil, talking with a superior. From the transcript it looked like Phil was telling the other guy (right now I don't recall who it was) what to do. So conversations can't always be taken at face value.

[PolackTony]

Worth noting again here that DeRose told the Feds in 1964 that Ricca was “acting in an advisory capacity” to the Consiglio and that he had “never quite regained his position of authority due to his pending deportation”. He also advised that “although Accardo and Ricca no longer head ‘The Family’ their influence is tremendous and they are part of the Committee”, which he stated was “headed” by Giancana, who was “in control” of the body. DeRose gave the other Consiglio members as Cerone, Buccieri, Battaglia, Accardo, and (likely) Prio, with Ricca, again, reported as serving in an “advisory capacity”.

[funkster]

Appears to be an outfit connection in the Weiss trial.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023 ... n-schweihs

Full circle to our rub and tug parlor conversation, looks like he was trying to get outfit protection. Very curious who individual B is.

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/170979064 ... R52ynZIi_Q

[Snakes]

Appears to be an outfit connection in the Weiss trial.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023 ... n-schweihs

Full circle to our rub and tug parlor conversation, looks like he was trying to get outfit protection. Very curious who individual B is.

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/170979064 ... R52ynZIi_Q

A pre-trial filing for Schweihs in Family Secrets (obviously before he died) stated that after he was released from prison in 2001, he "organized the menacing Outfit extortions of an Indiana adult book store and an adult entertainment club in the Chicago suburbs." Schweihs was definitely someone who didn't let age or even terminal illness get in the way of being a gangster.

[funkster]

Appears to be an outfit connection in the Weiss trial.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023 ... n-schweihs

Full circle to our rub and tug parlor conversation, looks like he was trying to get outfit protection. Very curious who individual B is.

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/170979064 ... R52ynZIi_Q

A pre-trial filing for Schweihs in Family Secrets (obviously before he died) stated that after he was released from prison in 2001, he "organized the menacing Outfit extortions of an Indiana adult book store and an adult entertainment club in the Chicago suburbs." Schweihs was definitely someone who didn't let age or even terminal illness get in the way of being a gangster.

Indeed. Gives a clue how politically connected he was too.

Based on the report, guessing “Individual B” is still alive and is either an associate or member.

[Snakes]

Appears to be an outfit connection in the Weiss trial.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2023 ... n-schweihs

Full circle to our rub and tug parlor conversation, looks like he was trying to get outfit protection. Very curious who individual B is.

https://x.com/jmetr22b/status/170979064 ... R52ynZIi_Q

A pre-trial filing for Schweihs in Family Secrets (obviously before he died) stated that after he was released from prison in 2001, he "organized the menacing Outfit extortions of an Indiana adult book store and an adult entertainment club in the Chicago suburbs." Schweihs was definitely someone who didn't let age or even terminal illness get in the way of being a gangster.

Indeed. Gives a clue how politically connected he was too.

Based on the report, guessing “Individual B” is still alive and is either an associate or member.

I wonder if they have a separate investigation into him and don't want to compromise anything concerning it. Here is some more information about "Individual B"

[Snakes]

[funkster]

Good finds. That was my inclination as well.

[aleksandrored]

Sorry for my intrusion into the conversation. I don't know Chicago very well, I just wanted to add to the discussion what Johnny Roselli said about Ricca. commenting that in Giancana's time, Ricca was the real power in Chicago.