General Chicago Outfit Info Dumping Ground

[PolackTony]

And then you had “The Don” drooling over Giancana in every other post….HE WAS A MAN’s MAN”

But between all of that bullshit those forums were a treasure trove of outfit information from somebody that was pretty darn close to it. I recall he outed Albie Vena as the boss of grand Avenue around 2010 or 2011 at a time when I had never heard the guys name.

What BHF is missing is more questions about Nick Gio (That MOTHER!).

[PolackTony]

And then you had “The Don” drooling over Giancana in every other post….HE WAS A MAN’s MAN”

This was one of several reasons that I strongly believed that BokaBreeze’s “info” on Reddit was just recycled ANP stuff, at least to a great degree, as he was also a huge Mooney fanboy. That after Mooney the outfit went downhill, that Mooney was like the Second Coming of Jesus to young Italian men in Chicagoland, etc etc. I can say that this is not the impression that I get from what I know about Giancana, lol. He wasn’t a disaster but he was not the paragon of the perfect boss.

[Coloboy]

That shit is hilarious . “Have left you mentally deranged”

[PolackTony]

That shit is hilarious . “Have left you mentally deranged”

“Joe, please ignore the recent comments from Black Angelo. The possibility that Marco is not ‘made’ seems to have challenged his notion of a logical universe and is causing him mental distress.”

[PolackTony]

Fosco being “pretty close to it” is an understatement if anything.

I had also forgotten that Fosco mentioned that he attended a sit down with the “Cleveland Outfit” with Mikey Mags and “Jack, Esq.” (Cerone Jr). Fosco stated that based on what he witnessed and was told, he believed that in 2010 Cleveland was still an active “outfit” and had about 15 made guys. After Mike Mags got tired of Cerone Jr’s games (at least from Fosco’s POV), he said that Fratto joined up with Jr and convinced some of the Cleveland guys that he was one of the top guys in Chicago. Hence Fratto getting caught on a wire telling the Cleveland guy running to him for protection that he was the “boss” of Elmwood Park.

[Snakes]

When ANP was big, most of those guys were still experiencing PTSD over Nick Calabrese proving that Chicago was just like every other LCN family

[PolackTony]

When ANP was big, most of those guys were still experiencing PTSD over Nick Calabrese proving that Chicago was just like every other LCN family

Thankfully, that was just because they changed it after Ricca died, to please New York.

[funkster]

When ANP was big, most of those guys were still experiencing PTSD over Nick Calabrese proving that Chicago was just like every other LCN family

Thankfully, that was just because they changed it after Ricca died, to please New York.

What specifically are you referring to?

[PolackTony]

When ANP was big, most of those guys were still experiencing PTSD over Nick Calabrese proving that Chicago was just like every other LCN family

Thankfully, that was just because they changed it after Ricca died, to please New York.

What specifically are you referring to?

The Chicago outfit, which as everyone knows had nothing to do with the “mafia” but was suddenly and radically “Sicilianized” sometime in the 1970s. This literally is the only way to explain Nick Calabrese’s testimony.

[funkster]

When ANP was big, most of those guys were still experiencing PTSD over Nick Calabrese proving that Chicago was just like every other LCN family

Thankfully, that was just because they changed it after Ricca died, to please New York.

What specifically are you referring to?

The Chicago outfit, which as everyone knows had nothing to do with the “mafia” but was suddenly and radically “Sicilianized” sometime in the 1970s. This literally is the only way to explain Nick Calabrese’s testimony.

But why do you think they did it to please NY?

[Antiliar]

The succession chart I think reflects the best info at hand. Good work, I agree with everything. I also think it’s plausible that Lombardo and LaPietra retained the formal capo spots with the other guys acting for them, but then alternatively they didn’t but had some sort of admin role. Possibly an echo of the older Consiglio, which I also think can possibly explain what DiFronzo’s role was post ‘97. My guess is that DiFronzo was akin to the “Chairman”, though I have no idea if that was still a formal thing or not by then. If so, I’d guess that Aiuppa may have at least formally been “Chairman” after Carlisi took over. Aiuppa died in ‘97, of course, so one wonder is that had something to do with DiFronzo apparently stepping back. Just speculation, as we don’t know that the Consiglio persisted into those years (though I’m open to the possibility that even if it didn’t as a formal body, it may have still left an influence on the roles that these senior semi-retired members played).

I spoke with you about it before, but the Lucchese associate that I know told me that he knew the “boss” of the Taylor St/Cicero crew circa 1999-2000 as “Big Mike”, so that is further confirmation that Spano was indeed capo.

I second that on Snakes' chart. I made my own a while back and this matches it.

In our conversations Fosco said that when Carlisi replaced Aiuppa, Aiuppa lost his status. Carlisi was the boss and the chairman. Carlisi also took away Gus Alex's income sources and essentially retired him. When Aiuppa finished his prison term he wanted to have Carlisi and Cerone both killed, but he had no one to do it. He was also de facto shelved. Don't know if he was ever officially shelved, but when the rest of the Outfit doesn't want to work with you or listen to you, it's effectively the same. I think Fosco believed or believes that Lombardo retained his captain position. I can't argue with him on that point since there isn't a lot of publicly available info on Lombardo after his release or on Centracchio. I requested Centracchio's full FBI file and was told that it's a large file that would cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. Maybe the price has gone down since then, but even if it has it's likely that all the good parts are redacted.

When ANP was big, most of those guys were still experiencing PTSD over Nick Calabrese proving that Chicago was just like every other LCN family

Thankfully, that was just because they changed it after Ricca died, to please New York.

What specifically are you referring to?

The Chicago outfit, which as everyone knows had nothing to do with the “mafia” but was suddenly and radically “Sicilianized” sometime in the 1970s. This literally is the only way to explain Nick Calabrese’s testimony.

But why do you think they did it to please NY?

I think he's being sarcastic.

[PolackTony]

When ANP was big, most of those guys were still experiencing PTSD over Nick Calabrese proving that Chicago was just like every other LCN family

Thankfully, that was just because they changed it after Ricca died, to please New York.

What specifically are you referring to?

The Chicago outfit, which as everyone knows had nothing to do with the “mafia” but was suddenly and radically “Sicilianized” sometime in the 1970s. This literally is the only way to explain Nick Calabrese’s testimony.

But why do you think they did it to please NY?

Because as all of us Chicagoans know, Chicago cares deeply about what NYC thinks of it.

Plus you know that guys like Accardo and Aiuppa were just waiting for Ricca to croak so they could impress their friends in NYC (including staunch Siciliani such as Funzi Tieri, Fat Tony, and Carmine Tramunti) with stories about how they were also burning cards and bragging about their capi and suttucapi.

[PolackTony]

The succession chart I think reflects the best info at hand. Good work, I agree with everything. I also think it’s plausible that Lombardo and LaPietra retained the formal capo spots with the other guys acting for them, but then alternatively they didn’t but had some sort of admin role. Possibly an echo of the older Consiglio, which I also think can possibly explain what DiFronzo’s role was post ‘97. My guess is that DiFronzo was akin to the “Chairman”, though I have no idea if that was still a formal thing or not by then. If so, I’d guess that Aiuppa may have at least formally been “Chairman” after Carlisi took over. Aiuppa died in ‘97, of course, so one wonder is that had something to do with DiFronzo apparently stepping back. Just speculation, as we don’t know that the Consiglio persisted into those years (though I’m open to the possibility that even if it didn’t as a formal body, it may have still left an influence on the roles that these senior semi-retired members played).

I spoke with you about it before, but the Lucchese associate that I know told me that he knew the “boss” of the Taylor St/Cicero crew circa 1999-2000 as “Big Mike”, so that is further confirmation that Spano was indeed capo.

I second that on Snakes' chart. I made my own a while back and this matches it.

In our conversations Fosco said that when Carlisi replaced Aiuppa, Aiuppa lost his status. Carlisi was the boss and the chairman. Carlisi also took away Gus Alex's income sources and essentially retired him. When Aiuppa finished his prison term he wanted to have Carlisi and Cerone both killed, but he had no one to do it. He was also de facto shelved. Don't know if he was ever officially shelved, but when the rest of the Outfit doesn't want to work with you or listen to you, it's effectively the same. I think Fosco believed or believes that Lombardo retained his captain position. I can't argue with him on that point since there isn't a lot of publicly available info on Lombardo after his release or on Centracchio. I requested Centracchio's full FBI file and was told that it's a large file that would cost hundreds or thousands of dollars. Maybe the price has gone down since then, but even if it has it's likely that all the good parts are redacted.

Thanks for the reminder about what Fosco said about Aiuppa. Could also totally see Aiuppa being stripped of all power like that, given what we know happened to Giancana when he skipped town. I recall someone arguing that Cerone was angling to reassert himself when he got out, but he was obviously in ooor health and didn’t last long. He also wasn’t well liked by many, so who knows if he would have had any base from which to try and assert influence even if his health was robust. I have a hard time seeing Johnny as letting Jack back in like that, TBH, and I’d imagine he may have done the same as Carlisi with Joey O. If that was the case, no sentimentality from those two for their longtime mentors. They had no scraps in their scrapbooks.

Centracchio was reputedly made some time in the late 60s, so he had a long career for a guy that was mostly under the radar for decades. He was pinched for cartage theft in ‘62, and then doesn’t make so much as a peep in the papers until the Tribune revealed in ‘96 that leaked documents stated that the Feds has been illegally recording Centracchio’s office, along with that if the Chief of the Stone Park PD. I don’t recall seeing Centracchio mentioned at all in FBI files from the 60s/70s, so he doesn’t seem to have made it on their board yet.

Tony’s brother Henry was of course pinched for conspiracy to distribute thousands of pounds of cocaine in 1989, which followed a bust for giving out fraudulent car loans in ‘84. I really would love to know what the Feds had on the Centracchios in that file, but I’d assume it would be a large, expensive pile of white sheets with black rectangles.

[Snakes]

I have a file from the mid-80s which makes a passing mention of Centracchio succeeding Lombardo as Grand Avenue capo. It also mentions a potential bribe to influence an early release for Lombardo.

[PolackTony]

I have a file from the mid-80s which makes a passing mention of Centracchio succeeding Lombardo as Grand Avenue capo. It also mentions a potential bribe to influence an early release for Lombardo.

Interesting. Wonder if this was when the Feds first had Tony C in their radar or if they had already been aware of him.

As we’ve discussed, hard to say whether or not Centracchio, if the intel was factual, was formal capo or just acting (as with Jimmy Lap being Angelo’s sottucap’). Also, hard to say what was going on with Eboli. We got a member who testified and even he couldn’t clear the Eboli question up for us.