Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Lupara]

And this spark of activity after years of really nothing out of Canada related to the Buffalo LCN.

If activity on the Canadian side was in decline too, we wouldn't even have this case right now.

To take things into perspective, how many major mob busts related to the very active Toronto clans have we seen in the last decades? Very few comparable to action undertaken against the mob in Italy or the US. That says something about the capacity or willingless of Canadian LE. It wasn't long ago that a retired police officer was publicly criticizing a lack of affirmative action on Italian organized crime in Ontario and that the clans were becoming more powerful because of it. This would also apply to the Canadian wing of the Buffalo family that can operate in relative silence. The RCMP just happened to be lucky that they could use the American CW in a joint effort with the feds to target these individuals. Without this cooperation the Violis would still be out there building up their operation and network. You may have noticed they were busy shaping new alliances with people in Montreal, even those closest to the Rizzutos. The whole criminal landscape in Canada is reorganizing and Violi's installment as underboss of the Buffalo family may have everything to do with it.

[Wiseguy]

And this spark of activity after years of really nothing out of Canada related to the Buffalo LCN.

If activity on the Canadian side was in decline too, we wouldn't even have this case right now.

To take things into perspective, how many major mob busts related to the very active Toronto clans have we seen in the last decades? Very few comparable to action undertaken against the mob in Italy or the US. That says something about the capacity or willingless of Canadian LE. It wasn't long ago that a retired police officer was publicly criticizing a lack of affirmative action on Italian organized crime in Ontario and that the clans were becoming more powerful because of it. This would also apply to the Canadian wing of the Buffalo family that can operate in relative silence. The RCMP just happened to be lucky that they could use the American CW in a joint effort with the feds to target these individuals. Without this cooperation the Violis would still be out there building up their operation and network. You may have noticed they were busy shaping new alliances with people in Montreal, even those closest to the Rizzutos. The whole criminal landscape in Canada is reorganizing and Violi's installment as underboss of the Buffalo family may have everything to do with it.

I'm the first to criticize Canadian laws and law enforcement but, much like the reasons people throw out about the lack of cases in Detroit, that only goes so far. We shouldn't necessarily assume Buffalo's Canadian crew was going strong and just happened to get caught recently.

That said, I do agree that what has happened so far, i.e. Violi being made underboss and the Luppino kid getting killed has more to do with the larger Canada OC landscape than anything with the Buffalo family itself.

[Confederate]

And this spark of activity after years of really nothing out of Canada related to the Buffalo LCN.

If activity on the Canadian side was in decline too, we wouldn't even have this case right now.

To take things into perspective, how many major mob busts related to the very active Toronto clans have we seen in the last decades? Very few comparable to action undertaken against the mob in Italy or the US. That says something about the capacity or willingless of Canadian LE. It wasn't long ago that a retired police officer was publicly criticizing a lack of affirmative action on Italian organized crime in Ontario and that the clans were becoming more powerful because of it. This would also apply to the Canadian wing of the Buffalo family that can operate in relative silence. The RCMP just happened to be lucky that they could use the American CW in a joint effort with the feds to target these individuals. Without this cooperation the Violis would still be out there building up their operation and network. You may have noticed they were busy shaping new alliances with people in Montreal, even those closest to the Rizzutos. The whole criminal landscape in Canada is reorganizing and Violi's installment as underboss of the Buffalo family may have everything to do with it.

I'm the first to criticize Canadian laws and law enforcement but, much like the reasons people throw out about the lack of cases in Detroit, that only goes so far. We shouldn't necessarily assume Buffalo's Canadian crew was going strong and just happened to get caught recently.

That said, I do agree that what has happened so far, i.e. Violi being made underboss and the Luppino kid getting killed has more to do with the larger Canada OC landscape than anything with the Buffalo family itself.

But aren't the other posters (Lupara, Sonny B etc.) saying that the Canadian people to whom you are referring are actually PART OF the Buffalo Family?
So, it would then concern the Buffalo Family, Correct?

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

We already knew that. So what exactly does it change?


Pogo

I see your point. It does tell us the guys in Hamilton are aligned with Buffalo. We knew that. The documents however do not shed light on the family membership size or criminal activity levels in the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area. Those two main questions are still unanswered.


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[SonnyBlackstein]

And this spark of activity after years of really nothing out of Canada related to the Buffalo LCN.

If activity on the Canadian side was in decline too, we wouldn't even have this case right now.

To take things into perspective, how many major mob busts related to the very active Toronto clans have we seen in the last decades? Very few comparable to action undertaken against the mob in Italy or the US. That says something about the capacity or willingless of Canadian LE. It wasn't long ago that a retired police officer was publicly criticizing a lack of affirmative action on Italian organized crime in Ontario and that the clans were becoming more powerful because of it. This would also apply to the Canadian wing of the Buffalo family that can operate in relative silence. The RCMP just happened to be lucky that they could use the American CW in a joint effort with the feds to target these individuals. Without this cooperation the Violis would still be out there building up their operation and network. You may have noticed they were busy shaping new alliances with people in Montreal, even those closest to the Rizzutos. The whole criminal landscape in Canada is reorganizing and Violi's installment as underboss of the Buffalo family may have everything to do with it.

I'm the first to criticize Canadian laws and law enforcement but, much like the reasons people throw out about the lack of cases in Detroit, that only goes so far. We shouldn't necessarily assume Buffalo's Canadian crew was going strong and just happened to get caught recently.

That said, I do agree that what has happened so far, i.e. Violi being made underboss and the Luppino kid getting killed has more to do with the larger Canada OC landscape than anything with the Buffalo family itself.

But aren't the other posters (Lupara, Sonny B etc.) saying that the Canadian people to whom you are referring are actually PART OF the Buffalo Family?
So, it would then concern the Buffalo Family, Correct?

Bingo.

And this is from the RCMP directly.
Yet still we dance through hoops.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I do agree that what has happened so far, i.e. Violi being made underboss .... has more to do with the larger Canada OC landscape than anything with the Buffalo family itself.

Somebody being made underboss of a family, has more to do with the OC landscape of the country... than the family itself.

This argument is, for yours, officially now ridiculous.

[Hellboy]

Idk. You got captains being named, guys getting offered to be made, an underboss is revealed, and boss giving people promotions with the so called backing of some of the five families. Not to mention a murder now. Sounds pretty fucking active to me. At this point it's just looking like blind, denial, to say otherwise.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Until we get solid information to accurately assess the true membership size and criminal activity level of the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area, we will only be able speculate. It could take years or it could be never. The only new info comes from the limited Violi transcripts we've all read. That's what we know. Be patient or debate. I choose the former.


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[scagghiuni]

Until we get solid information to accurately assess the true membership size and criminal activity level of the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area, we will only be able speculate. It could take years or it could be never. The only new info comes from the limited Violi transcripts we've all read. That's what we know. Be patient or debate. I choose the former.


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what kind of more solid info? violi himself said buffalo family has 30 made members

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

What rackets (besides dope in Hamilton) are they involved? We don't know.
I am not invalidating what claims Dom Violi made. I'm not claiming to know about the Buffalo Family One way or the other. Are they defunct? Or are they 25 to 35 members strong and very active?
All I was trying to say is I need more information to know what the Todaro family is up to in Buffalo.
And I was trying to say that I'm not going to argue about it one way or the other. Just wait for Facts to come out.


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[Lupara]

And this spark of activity after years of really nothing out of Canada related to the Buffalo LCN.

If activity on the Canadian side was in decline too, we wouldn't even have this case right now.

To take things into perspective, how many major mob busts related to the very active Toronto clans have we seen in the last decades? Very few comparable to action undertaken against the mob in Italy or the US. That says something about the capacity or willingless of Canadian LE. It wasn't long ago that a retired police officer was publicly criticizing a lack of affirmative action on Italian organized crime in Ontario and that the clans were becoming more powerful because of it. This would also apply to the Canadian wing of the Buffalo family that can operate in relative silence. The RCMP just happened to be lucky that they could use the American CW in a joint effort with the feds to target these individuals. Without this cooperation the Violis would still be out there building up their operation and network. You may have noticed they were busy shaping new alliances with people in Montreal, even those closest to the Rizzutos. The whole criminal landscape in Canada is reorganizing and Violi's installment as underboss of the Buffalo family may have everything to do with it.

I'm the first to criticize Canadian laws and law enforcement but, much like the reasons people throw out about the lack of cases in Detroit, that only goes so far. We shouldn't necessarily assume Buffalo's Canadian crew was going strong and just happened to get caught recently.

That said, I do agree that what has happened so far, i.e. Violi being made underboss and the Luppino kid getting killed has more to do with the larger Canada OC landscape than anything with the Buffalo family itself.

We shouldn't assume that they had been growing weak before growing strong again either. I think the Hamilton crews' activities were never really compromised. So while the Buffalo part of the Buffalo family was in decline, the Canadian part remained stabile. This is why I believe Todaro, Jr., who more than likely has stayed on as the nominal boss, has named Violi underboss in order to give him more authority to build upon and re-organize the Canadian faction's activities, perhaps in order to keep the Buffalo family, or at least its legacy, alive. It may be the first step in a transition of power to the Canadian side when what remains in Buffalo itself will ultimately fade away completely.

Then again, this arrest which goes along with a fair amount of humiliation, may have thwarted these plans. We've seen before, in Montreal for instance, how things can fall apart quickly, both in 2006, 2011, and 2013.

[Lupara]

I do agree that what has happened so far, i.e. Violi being made underboss .... has more to do with the larger Canada OC landscape than anything with the Buffalo family itself.

Somebody being made underboss of a family, has more to do with the OC landscape of the country... than the family itself.

This argument is, for yours, officially now ridiculous.

Even though we are on the same side here, I actually do agree with this theory/argument. I've basically suggested it in my own post of yesterday. I think because of ongoing activity and a changing landscape with new opportunities in Canada, along with a sharp decline of the family in Buffalo, could quite likely be the reason Violi was given this title (I've explained above why).

From this POV I do believe the Buffalo family as a whole is still a viable organization. It's basically the technicalities and a slightly different perspective, that keeps this debate going.

[Lupara]

Until we get solid information to accurately assess the true membership size and criminal activity level of the Buffalo/Niagara Falls area, we will only be able speculate. It could take years or it could be never. The only new info comes from the limited Violi transcripts we've all read. That's what we know. Be patient or debate. I choose the former.


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Agreed.

[Wiseguy]

But aren't the other posters (Lupara, Sonny B etc.) saying that the Canadian people to whom you are referring are actually PART OF the Buffalo Family?
So, it would then concern the Buffalo Family, Correct?

Technically, yes, but the problem is people are taking a handful of recent events and blowing them out of proportion, not only in relation to the Hamilton faction, but to the Buffalo family as a whole. In other words, they're looking at these recent events and believe they show something they don't.

We have far more examples of residual activity by remnants of a basically defunct family - whether it be an indictment, or somebody being made, etc. - than what many on this forum seem to be interpreting all this as. There really is no reason to think Buffalo will be any different.

Bingo.

And this is from the RCMP directly.
Yet still we dance through hoops.

See above.

Somebody being made underboss of a family, has more to do with the OC landscape of the country... than the family itself.

This argument is, for yours, officially now ridiculous.

See? That's where you and a lot of others here get off track. Thinking a recently made guy in Canada being named underboss shows the family is more active than it is overall. Violi being bumped up doesnt change the fact that the American side of the family - the bulk of the family - has been basically defunct for years now; and remain so according to the FBI. Violi's promotion is likely more a product of some recent residual activity by Canadian members than it is a reflection on the family overall.

Idk. You got captains being named, guys getting offered to be made, an underboss is revealed, and boss giving people promotions with the so called backing of some of the five families. Not to mention a murder now. Sounds pretty fucking active to me. At this point it's just looking like blind, denial, to say otherwise.

According to Canadian authorities, Violi is the recently made underboss, one of the Luppinos is a captain, and a relative who turned down membership has been killed. And, of course, the drug bust that preceded all this. This is obviously related to the Hamilton faction, which is a minority part of the family.

It may seem like a lot if one forgets the 1) the lack of activity out of Hamilton for years now until recently, and 2) this doesn't necessarily reflect on the status of the family as a whole. Todaro Jr. is likely little more than a nominal boss and one of those the FBI described as involved in legit business and who's OC activities don't exist anymore. Don't read more into news about Violi's promotion being sent down to New York than is really there.

You guys are looking at some recent events and info in isolation while ignoring everything else. As a result, how you're viewing this, in relation to the Buffalo LCN, is skewed. Once again, this is not unlike the New Orleans video gambling bust in 1994 or the Detroit bookmaking bust in 2006, both of which involved some high ranking members of those families. But we can now see that those cases weren't reflective of a really active family. More like residual activity by remnants of a family. Again, really no reason to think Buffalo will be any different.

what kind of more solid info? violi himself said buffalo family has 30 made members

A good example of looking at one piece of info in isolation while ignoring other things. In this case, the fact that the family was at 23 members in 2006. Several members have died since then. Whoever has been recently made on the Canadian side of the border, they are still a minority in the family. And its rather unlikely that enough guys have been made to not only make up for the deceased, but bring it all the way back to over 30.

What rackets (besides dope in Hamilton) are they involved? We don't know.
I am not invalidating what claims Dom Violi made. I'm not claiming to know about the Buffalo Family One way or the other. Are they defunct? Or are they 25 to 35 members strong and very active?
All I was trying to say is I need more information to know what the Todaro family is up to in Buffalo.
And I was trying to say that I'm not going to argue about it one way or the other. Just wait for Facts to come out.


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One can look at what Buffalo-related cases there have been over the past 20 years and it will give a good look at the state of things. Of course, many here don't do that (it would actually take some work) and so can't see beyond the latest headlines.

We shouldn't assume that they had been growing weak before growing strong again either. I think the Hamilton crews' activities were never really compromised. So while the Buffalo part of the Buffalo family was in decline, the Canadian part remained stabile. This is why I believe Todaro, Jr., who more than likely has stayed on as the nominal boss, has named Violi underboss in order to give him more authority to build upon and re-organize the Canadian faction's activities, perhaps in order to keep the Buffalo family, or at least its legacy, alive. It may be the first step in a transition of power to the Canadian side when what remains in Buffalo itself will ultimately fade away completely.

Then again, this arrest which goes along with a fair amount of humiliation, may have thwarted these plans. We've seen before, in Montreal for instance, how things can fall apart quickly, both in 2006, 2011, and 2013.

As I said, the using the lack of enforcement by Canadian authorities to explain things away only goes so far. Are we really supposed to believe the Hamilton faction has remained stable with nary a sign for years now? Or is it more likely recent events are more isolated and related to things in Canada than a reflection on the overall state of the Buffalo LCN?

[Hellboy]

Wiseguy, you would've been a great lawyer man. You can argue the shit out of a point. Lol