Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[JeremyTheJew]

is it just assumed that Todaro jnr made contact w 3 outa 5 nyc fams?? or did that come from Violi??

[Wiseguy]

It is an interesting topic, as all the other families deemed to be defunct have no life in them at all.....no wiretaps no talk of a boss, ub, capos or membership....so it's quite normal for people to be interested

On one hand, other than the 9 families the feds still unquestionably consider viable, Detroit and Buffalo lasted longer into the 1990s than any other family (Pittsburgh would probably follow after the). So to an extent, it does make sense that Detroit and Buffalo would cause more debate than, say, New Orleans or St. Louis.

On the other hand, as I've said, it's 2019, folks.

[scagghiuni]

Because Detroit has still been on some lists , I've said that it is arguably still in a grey area. For those that want to make the argument anyway.

As for Buffalo, you really want to keep going in circles? How about we revisit this topic in another 5 or 10 years (when nothing else has happened) and I'll ask you how viable Buffalo is.

italian police said some years ago that the full commission of palermo was not active anymore and there were only occasional meetings of some bosses, but recently beacause of wiretaps they admitted it was reformed again
if fbi said buffalo family is dead and there are wiretaps showed the opposite, i believe the wiretaps of course

[cavita]

The major LCN families include the five New York-based families—Bonanno, Colombo, Gambino, Genovese, and Lucchese; the Newark-based DeCavalcante family; the New England LCN; the Philadelphia LCN; and the Chicago Outfit. They have members in other major cities and are involved in international crimes. (FBI website, 2019)

so detroit is officially considered dead?
anyway i don't see like to ignore the fact according to wiretaps buffalo is viable, it's like to deny sicilian mafia full commission was reformed although wiretaps clearly showed it in the recent anti-mafia operation in palermo

Because Detroit has still been on some lists , I've said that it is arguably still in a grey area. For those that want to make the argument anyway.

As for Buffalo, you really want to keep going in circles? How about we revisit this topic in another 5 or 10 years (when nothing else has happened) and I'll ask you how viable Buffalo is.

5 to 10 years ago we all thought Buffalo was dead and there had been little to no activity but now we see a resurgence. Excited to see what the next 5-10 years brings in Buffalo!

[Wiseguy]

italian police said some years ago that the full commission of palermo was not active anymore and there were only occasional meetings of some bosses, but recently beacause of wiretaps they admitted it was reformed again
if fbi said buffalo family is dead and there are wiretaps showed the opposite, i believe the wiretaps of course

The wiretaps haven't showed as much as many here seem to think they do. Todaro Jr. being the nominal boss, and Violi being the underboss, is one thing. As much as that means anyway. What Violi said about "beating 30 other guys for the spot" and taking that as conclusive proof the family has 30+ members is another.

Given what we know the feds had the family membership at back in 2006, as well as those that have died since then, it's highly unlikely they have that many members. I realize some here seem to think it's totally within reason that Buffalo could make 15+ guys over the last 13 years or so but they're living in fantasy land.

And people in Buffalo still having contact with New York doesn't necessarily mean much either. We've seen remnants from plenty of other defunct families still be in contact on some level or another with New York.

5 to 10 years ago we all thought Buffalo was dead and there had been little to no activity but now we see a resurgence. Excited to see what the next 5-10 years brings in Buffalo!

Don't hold your breath.

[NickleCity]

Given what we know the feds had the family membership at back in 2006, as well as those that have died since then, it's highly unlikely they have that many members. I realize some here seem to think it's totally within reason that Buffalo could make 15+ guys over the last 13 years or so but they're living in fantasy land.

I am not confident the FBI had or has identified the entire membership of the Buffalo crime family. One example: Joe Pezzino was definitely a made man and I don't remember seeing him on any lists let me know if I'm wrong-cause i didn't take time to comb records/posts to verify.

[JeremyTheJew]

any possibilty of having possibly taken all remnants from maybe Rochester, Utica, WNY, etc into the Buffalo Family?? possibly even some sort of Bonanno connection since they were at a making ceremony??

[Wiseguy]

Given what we know the feds had the family membership at back in 2006, as well as those that have died since then, it's highly unlikely they have that many members. I realize some here seem to think it's totally within reason that Buffalo could make 15+ guys over the last 13 years or so but they're living in fantasy land.

I am not confident the FBI had or has identified the entire membership of the Buffalo crime family. One example: Joe Pezzino was definitely a made man and I don't remember seeing him on any lists let me know if I'm wrong-cause i didn't take time to comb records/posts to verify.

The feds certainly had a good idea of the membership in 1989 when it was 45 members, as well as 2006 when it was 23 members. That shows a definite decline. And since 2006, several more members have died. But we're supposed to believe they have somehow drastically reversed course and found enough guys to build it back up to over 30? I don't think so. Even if there was a guy here or there flying under the radar, it wouldn't be enough to explain the discrepancy. As Pogo said in the beginning of this thread, it doesn't pass the smell test.

[scagghiuni]

Given what we know the feds had the family membership at back in 2006, as well as those that have died since then, it's highly unlikely they have that many members. I realize some here seem to think it's totally within reason that Buffalo could make 15+ guys over the last 13 years or so but they're living in fantasy land.

I am not confident the FBI had or has identified the entire membership of the Buffalo crime family. One example: Joe Pezzino was definitely a made man and I don't remember seeing him on any lists let me know if I'm wrong-cause i didn't take time to comb records/posts to verify.

The feds certainly had a good idea of the membership in 1989 when it was 45 members, as well as 2006 when it was 23 members. That shows a definite decline. And since 2006, several more members have died. But we're supposed to believe they have somehow drastically reversed course and found enough guys to build it back up to over 30? I don't think so. Even if there was a guy here or there flying under the radar, it wouldn't be enough to explain the discrepancy. As Pogo said in the beginning of this thread, it doesn't pass the smell test.

organized crime it is not an exact science and fbi doesn't know 100% of what happens or all members, buffalo was a dormant family that became to make new members only recently and mostly in canada... violi himself said there are 30 members and he's underboss, honestly i don't see any more believable proof than mafiosi themselves

[Pogo The Clown]

Turridu is that you?


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Given what we know the feds had the family membership at back in 2006, as well as those that have died since then, it's highly unlikely they have that many members. I realize some here seem to think it's totally within reason that Buffalo could make 15+ guys over the last 13 years or so but they're living in fantasy land.

I am not confident the FBI had or has identified the entire membership of the Buffalo crime family. One example: Joe Pezzino was definitely a made man and I don't remember seeing him on any lists let me know if I'm wrong-cause i didn't take time to comb records/posts to verify.

The feds certainly had a good idea of the membership in 1989 when it was 45 members, as well as 2006 when it was 23 members. That shows a definite decline. And since 2006, several more members have died. But we're supposed to believe they have somehow drastically reversed course and found enough guys to build it back up to over 30? I don't think so. Even if there was a guy here or there flying under the radar, it wouldn't be enough to explain the discrepancy. As Pogo said in the beginning of this thread, it doesn't pass the smell test.

organized crime it is not an exact science and fbi doesn't know 100% of what happens or all members, buffalo was a dormant family that became to make new members only recently and mostly in canada... violi himself said there are 30 members and he's underboss, honestly i don't see any more believable proof than mafiosi themselves

You've taken 1+1 and said it = 3, i.e Violi was recently made, he makes a passing, not totally clear comment about "beating out 30 other guys," and you assume the family not only found enough guys to make up for those dying but actually grow back to over 30.

[faffy444]

Violi only stated he beat out 30 guys for the U.B. position. that doesn't mean there are only 30 guys in the family.

[Wiseguy]

Violi only stated he beat out 30 guys for the U.B. position. that doesn't mean there are only 30 guys in the family.

The assumption is, to even be a candidate for underboss, one would have to be made. So, if Violi beat out 30 other guys, then that must mean they were all members.

If that was all the info we had on the issue, I might have come to that conclusion myself. However, 1) given what we know about the membership being at 23 in 2006, and several more dying since then (following a 30 year trend); 2) given the relative lack of cases over the past 20 years; and 3) what the feds have said about the state of the family; it may be wise to not immediately take Violi's comment at face value.

[NickleCity]

any possibilty of having possibly taken all remnants from maybe Rochester, Utica, WNY, etc into the Buffalo Family?? possibly even some sort of Bonanno connection since they were at a making ceremony??

Yes. I believe they have at a presence in Buffalo/Niagara Metro, Niagara Frontier, Southern Tier, Rochester in WNY and possibly Rome/Utica in Central/Fingerlakes area.

[faffy444]

Ditto, Nickle City.