Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Lupara]

My post was directed at Lupara who wants to endlessly speculate

And again I ask, what is wrong with that? How does that not benefit the activity of the forum? This speculation is based on legitimate info, there are no bullshit artists here who are making stuff up like in the Chicago threads, so what's your stake in this discussion?

[Lupara]

You must love GBB.


Pogo

Funny you say that, as I hardly follow that forum over there anymore for the last few years.

[Lupara]

oh for Christ's sake people just agree to disagree already until something more concrete comes out [emoji38]

seriously, 50 pages? hahaha

Makes you think if LA captain Louie Caruso was in a fender bender, that would result in at least a 5 page thread.

Perhaps we should turn this forum into an archive or blog with comments disabled. [emoji2]

Anyway, we were in agreement somewhere earlier on this thread, so let's just leave it at that.

[johnny_scootch]

Some things to consider from the Humphreys article

The Buffalo mob has since fallen on hard times. Old-timers who had run the group for years were dying of old age or retiring with little sign of new blood coming in, including Joe Todaro Sr., who was known by the nickname Lead Pipe Joe and was Joseph Todaro’s father.

The police evidence gathered during the three-year probe claim the organization was being resuscitated as the last reputed boss, Leonard (The Calzone) Falzone, was ailing. He died in 2016.

The reorganization seemed to begin in 2014.

It's likely Todaro Jr. became Acting boss in 2014 and he began bringing the nearly defunct family back to life.

Soon after Violi was allegedly made Underboss, according to the documents, at least three of the families had already been told. Michael (Mikey Nose) Mancuso, the boss of the Bonanno Family knew, the documents say, and the Genovese Family and the Colombo Family also had been told.

The news apparently flowed both ways between New York and Buffalo. After the informant was “made,” a mobster named John “Porky” Zancocchio had allegedly told mobsters in Buffalo, the informant told Violi.

They are in contact with several NY families and information is flowing in both directions.

The mobsters, the documents allege, were clear that Todaro held the reigns of power within the re-emergent Buffalo organization; the men said that nobody became a member without going through Todaro first. They said a mobster in the area was either under Todaro or they needed to pack their bags and leave.

They still control territory.

From the Globe and Mail article

The rival Rizzuto family was vying for power at the time, and within two years Paolo Violi and both his brothers were dead. After that, Grazia Luppino Violi moved her children back to Hamilton, where her family name carries its own prestige in the Mafia underworld. To this day, according to Project OTremens court documents, the Violis’ uncles Natale and Rocco Luppino are both “made” (that is, official) members of Buffalo’s Todaro family.

The reason Violi had to wait so long to be made was because he was in Buffalo family territory and they simply weren't making any guys for quite a long time. Him and his brother were most likely operating as associates of their uncles. Once Todaro Jr got control of the family and started making guys again Violi is right at the top of the list.

[Frank]

My post was directed at Lupara who wants to endlessly speculate

And again I ask, what is wrong with that? How does that not benefit the activity of the forum? This speculation is based on legitimate info, there are no bullshit artists here who are making stuff up like in the Chicago threads, so what's your stake in this discussion?

Lol what was made up in the Chicago threads??

[Pogo The Clown]

Not so much made up info as just a very outdated view of the Outfit. In the early years of the forum up to the late 2000s the general view on the forums was that the Outfit was one of the most deeply entrenched and powerful LCN groups in the country, second only to the Genovese family. I even bought into it myself early on. People got very heated when Wiseguy (credit to him for being the first to inject facts and logic into that discussion) pointed out the feds had them at 28-30 members and a second tier family or the lack of Chicago indictments compared to the NY families. The Chicago posters in particular lost their shit over it and it led to a lot of beefs.


Pogo

[Snakes]

Not sure why they used to get so heated; it used to be a "bragging" point that they were more "exclusive" but once someone neutral came along and said they only had 28 members all of a sudden it was an offense.

[cavita]

I always said and still say the Outfit's power comes from its associates. I don't think it mattered that they had 150-300 members in the 1960s or 28 today. As long as they get their business done at the end of the day it doesn't matter how many official members a family has.

[Frank]

Yes it's a big difference in Outfit news campared to when I was a teenager in the 70s. If they don't or haven't made any younger members they will be done in the next 10 years. Ricca and Accardo were complaining about the way things were going in the 60s with the raids on their gambling. I remember all the hits making the news in the 70s and 80s, they are sure quiet now. In my opinion it started to really slow down gradually in the early 90s

[Snakes]

Once Marcello got locked up, it was the beginning of the end.

[Wiseguy]

Not sure why they used to get so heated; it used to be a "bragging" point that they were more "exclusive" but once someone neutral came along and said they only had 28 members all of a sudden it was an offense.

For a long time on the RD forum there were certain posters who almost rooted for the mob family in their city like it was the local NFL team. Fortunately we dont see that bizarre phenomenon nearly as much anymore.

I always said and still say the Outfit's power comes from its associates. I don't think it mattered that they had 150-300 members in the 1960s or 28 today. As long as they get their business done at the end of the day it doesn't matter how many official members a family has.

Well even their associate numbers have been drastically reduced. I've seen anywhere from 75 to "over 100" associated cited by the feds.

And it does matter how many members a family has, even in Chicago. Without there being a core hierarchy of made guys, there's essentially no family left.

Yes it's a big difference in Outfit news campared to when I was a teenager in the 70s. If they don't or haven't made any younger members they will be done in the next 10 years. Ricca and Accardo were complaining about the way things were going in the 60s with the raids on their gambling. I remember all the hits making the news in the 70s and 80s, they are sure quiet now. In my opinion it started to really slow down gradually in the early 90s

Will have to see if Jeffrey Sallett (Chicago SAC) can make a case against the Outfit like he did against the Bonanno and Patriarca families.

[Frank]

Not sure why they used to get so heated; it used to be a "bragging" point that they were more "exclusive" but once someone neutral came along and said they only had 28 members all of a sudden it was an offense.

For a long time on the RD forum there were certain posters who almost rooted for the mob family in their city like it was the local NFL team. Fortunately we dont see that bizarre phenomenon nearly as much anymore.

I always said and still say the Outfit's power comes from its associates. I don't think it mattered that they had 150-300 members in the 1960s or 28 today. As long as they get their business done at the end of the day it doesn't matter how many official members a family has.

Well even their associate numbers have been drastically reduced. I've seen anywhere from 75 to "over 100" associated cited by the feds.

And it does matter how many members a family has, even in Chicago. Without there being a core hierarchy of made guys, there's essentially no family left.

Yes it's a big difference in Outfit news campared to when I was a teenager in the 70s. If they don't or haven't made any younger members they will be done in the next 10 years. Ricca and Accardo were complaining about the way things were going in the 60s with the raids on their gambling. I remember all the hits making the news in the 70s and 80s, they are sure quiet now. In my opinion it started to really slow down gradually in the early 90s

Will have to see if Jeffrey Sallett (Chicago SAC) can make a case against the Outfit like he did against the Bonanno and Patriarca families.

I found Salletts comments to be very interesting. He sounds like he wants to put the stake through their heart.

[Frank]

Back to Buffalo. With the Violin Bros possible connection to the Rizzuto murders.They were both not made at the time of Nick Rizzutos death. Rizzuto was made and possibly at the time the capo of the Bonanno Montreal Decina. So it does make sense that if they were involved, that they were doing the job for the Bonannos. Being unmade means they couldn't do it on there own to get revenge for their father and uncle's.But they could if they were asked to do it by the Bonanno or Buffalo leadership.

[CabriniGreen]

lol, how many times I gotta say it?

Yall just like to argue,.....But seriously, all jokes aside, I see both sides.

This case does have SOME similarities to whatever, Cleveland or Rockford? Rochester? The difference is Hamilton straight up has ( depending on how you define family) 3 active crime families. So there is an abundance of activity, even if they are out of the FBIs jurisdiction, and off their radar.

The Violis were, and ARE major players. They apparently were sought out by the Acting Boss of the Bonnanos, despite not being made. Apparently actively involved in not only Montreal hits, but maybe the Angelo Musitano hit too. Being able to reach out to Colombia to secure import must make them sought after business partners. Like I said in the ENDLESS GBB Buffalo thread, FOCUS ON THE VIOLIS, it will shed light on the structure of Canada,........


For example, beyond the brothers, WHO exactly are the members of the Musitano FAMILY? Do we know?
But they are unmistakably a family, or whatever you wanna call em...
To me it doesnt even really matter WHAT the affiliation was, or is. A Buffalo crew, ndrangheta ndrine, or Bonnano members. In today's landscape, it's becoming one honored society, with how they are collaborating in business. What got them in that room was COCAINE. Period point blank. What the fuck else do the Violis even DO, beyond large scale trafficking?

Drug trafficking needs no mafia family. A Mafia run drug operation would probably be more organized than your typical drug ring or gang, but it's not NEEDED.

This is why Renaud has the Hells as Canada's strongest group at the moment.

Now, like I said before, this COULD very well start and end with the Violis. Again they are NARCOTICS TRAFFICKERS. Not labor racketeers, not gambling Tzars, they to my knowledge dont have a stranglehold on local City and State structures as far as kickbacks and sweetheart contracts or sub contracts on City jobs and or services.

It's one more faction in the ongoing Canadian saga.
I was perfectly fine treating them like powerful drug lords, the Buffalo angle is just one more piece of wa complex puzzle...
And Wiseguy, I love you, but you DO want to be right. I saw this in the double affiliation thread, I got the impression you wanted to " WIN" the argument, more so than discuss the topic. What worse you were confusing the info and accusing ME of being confused.

And if you arnt interested in anything outside NY, fine.
But Canada is a reality, and it is MUCH more interesting that BOTH the Luchesse case ( which yall couldnt even discuss without degenerating into some racial nonsense, which yall never seem to be in as a hurry to interrupt...)
or the Bonnano case, shit AND the East Coast Enterprise case.

We dont have all the answers. I watched people on the forums swear that Illinois has control over video gambling. Now I'm not saying for sure its mob controlled, I don't know, and neither do the cops. But for sure, the STATE aint in control, lol
There are illegal machines everywhere out IN THE OPEN!! But if you didnt live here you wouldn't know.
Its NOT like NY, no one cares, too many gang murders for that shit to rate.

The funny thing is Pogo, Wiseguy, look at those excerpts. You really arnt even WRONG HERE!! Both sides are basically correct, if we stop trying to be " RIGHT" yall could see that. There WASNT much beyond the Violis happening with the Buffalo family. This entire initiative to reactivate is less than 5 years old, a VERY RECENT development. And it happened what, a year after Rizzuto died, suddenly when everyone was expecting more bloodshed. How could it be a cooincidence?

Funny how people pick and chose. I feel like if the courts would have said Joe Violi accepted Bonanno membership, or if they were confirmed Bonnanos we wouldn't even be having this argument at all....

[Ivan]

I found Salletts comments to be very interesting. He sounds like he wants to put the stake through their heart.

What did he say, exactly? Anyone got a link to these comments? Thanks in advance.