Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Stroccos]

Boss and underboss of a non-existent Family with no hierarchy? The common denominator between criminal activity carried out by the boss's nephews and the son-in-law of a confirmed member is a corrupt federal agent? The "mafia" is just a term thrown around by the press?

If Todaro ever goes to trial, Wiseguy should be his lawyer.

the drug cases aganist these guys were kinda penny ante no? you really believe THe wing king really involved in a 100 pound weed operation

It was a matter of trafficking tons and tons of marijuana over 20 years.

they were are and were always considered wannabes

[B.]

Peter Magaddino was just the president of a funeral parlor and spent most of his time arranging wakes for people. Vincent Scro ran a linen supply business and he's in his office every day -- FBI wiretaps show he actually talks mainly about the linen business and makes most of his income that way. They just coincidentally happen to be relatives of the boss.

Sammy Gravano met with Todaro and said he made him wade out into the ocean and face the water to talk briefly about NYC. He doesn't care about secrecy, he just loves the ocean.

Domenico Violi just dropped Todaro's name to a Bonanno member because a major Canadian drug dealer needs the credibility of a non-existent organization across the border. The Bonanno Family recognized his status and included him in a member induction because Violi is a nice guy and deserved it. The Bonanno Family is the Make-A-Wish Foundation and they wanted to make a kid's day -- his father died, you know?

I don't know, though, I'm starting to think there's something connecting these guys to each other but I wouldn't want to appear brainless. You'd truly have to be an agenda-driven idiot to consider the possibility that one of America's old mafia strongholds has a small Family left that includes associates related to Family leaders.

[Newyorkempire]

Boss and underboss of a non-existent Family with no hierarchy? The common denominator between criminal activity carried out by the boss's nephews and the son-in-law of a confirmed member is a corrupt federal agent? The "mafia" is just a term thrown around by the press?

If Todaro ever goes to trial, Wiseguy should be his lawyer.

the drug cases aganist these guys were kinda penny ante no? you really believe THe wing king really involved in a 100 pound weed operation

It was a matter of trafficking tons and tons of marijuana over 20 years.

they were are and were always considered wannabes

Source? If you move tons and tons of grass youre not a wannabe, you're a drug trafficker. If your father in law was Bart Mazzara you were influenced by an old school mobster and learned what it was all about, he isnt a wannabe. You making the claim is ignorant. A wannabe is Pete Tuccio. Youre confused on the distinction.

[Stroccos]

Peter Magaddino was just the president of a funeral parlor and spent most of his time arranging wakes for people. Vincent Scro ran a linen supply business and he's in his office every day -- FBI wiretaps show he actually talks mainly about the linen business and makes most of his income that way. They just coincidentally happen to be relatives of the boss.

Sammy Gravano met with Todaro and said he made him wade out into the ocean and face the water to talk briefly about NYC. He doesn't care about secrecy, he just loves the ocean.

Domenico Violi just dropped Todaro's name to a Bonanno member because a major Canadian drug dealer needs the credibility of a non-existent organization across the border. The Bonanno Family recognized his status and included him in a member induction because Violi is a nice guy and deserved it. The Bonanno Family is the Make-A-Wish Foundation and they wanted to make a kid's day -- his father died, you know?

I don't know, though, I'm starting to think there's something connecting these guys to each other but I wouldn't want to appear brainless. You'd truly have to be an agenda-driven idiot to consider the possibility that one of America's old mafia strongholds has a small Family left that includes associates related to Family leaders.

i would believe that , todaro is the boss even if he was like the recgonized man doesnt realy commit crimes but still hold the title maybe he bankrolls stuff , but you also have to consider he had nothing to do with these patiuclaur guys criminal endeavors

[B.]

That's realistic. Regional representatives of Cosa Nostra -- not necessarily "crime bosses" micro-managing everyone's activities which is true for most Families in history. Anything beyond that, I have an open mind but no theories or conclusions.

[Newyorkempire]

Peter Magaddino was just the president of a funeral parlor and spent most of his time arranging wakes for people. Vincent Scro ran a linen supply business and he's in his office every day -- FBI wiretaps show he actually talks mainly about the linen business and makes most of his income that way. They just coincidentally happen to be relatives of the boss.

Sammy Gravano met with Todaro and said he made him wade out into the ocean and face the water to talk briefly about NYC. He doesn't care about secrecy, he just loves the ocean.

Domenico Violi just dropped Todaro's name to a Bonanno member because a major Canadian drug dealer needs the credibility of a non-existent organization across the border. The Bonanno Family recognized his status and included him in a member induction because Violi is a nice guy and deserved it. The Bonanno Family is the Make-A-Wish Foundation and they wanted to make a kid's day -- his father died, you know?

I don't know, though, I'm starting to think there's something connecting these guys to each other but I wouldn't want to appear brainless. You'd truly have to be an agenda-driven idiot to consider the possibility that one of America's old mafia strongholds has a small Family left that includes associates related to Family leaders.

What is your source that the Bonannos are actually the Make a Wish Foundation? I havent heard this yet.

[B.]

You'd know it if you lived in Bonanno Town.

[Newyorkempire]

You'd know it if you lived in Bonanno Town.

[B.]

I can believe some of these "mob associate" drug dealers are wannabes. Everyone's a wannabe until he isn't. Could imply there is something in their environment they're trying to emulate even if they haven't made it there yet.

If we had the board generations ago, people would be talking about tons of future made guys as if they were that Pete Tuccio kid. If you look into the background of half these guys there are stories of them being inept hanger-ons and gangbangers and we only see them differently in hindsight. Not that these Buffalo associates will become significant, just that everyone starts somewhere and it's not always pretty.

[Newyorkempire]

I can believe some of these "mob associate" drug dealers are wannabes. Everyone's a wannabe until he isn't. Could imply there is something in their environment they're trying to emulate even if they haven't made it there yet.

If we had the board generations ago, people would be talking about tons of future made guys as if they were that Pete Tuccio kid. If you look into the background of half these guys there are stories of them being inept hanger-ons and gangbangers and we only see them differently in hindsight. Not that these Buffalo associates will become significant, just that everyone starts somewhere and it's not always pretty.

True. Just wasnt sure who is the wannabe. The Geraces are pretty hardcore and share the lineage. Massechia had to be influenced by Mazzara. And Bongiovanni is a corrupt cop...so not sure the tag especially when these are all 40 and older men

[B.]

Yeah, that's why I say "some" could be. Just leaving it open because we're in the dark on their true status. The WNY/Ontario situation is a great example of how important member sources are... if a Bonanno member didn't wear a wire and capture the underboss admitting the organization was inducting members and named a new boss, we'd be even more clueless about these WNY drug dealers. The implication now is that they're "with" the Family but in what capacity we don't know.

It's like the Historic Info thread... CC can post Secret Service documents that identify well-connected counterfeiters from the 1910s, but unless Clemente said the guy's a member we can only speculate about a given guy's affiliation/stature.

[Angelo Santino]

We really need insiders. Throughout mob history there's been very serious guys-killers whom everyone thought were members turns out weren't, and guys who we never heard of who seem lackluster who actually were. Made Guys aren't made equal.

And these groups don't need to leave bodies on the street to exist. Let's consider Tommy Gambino in LA, Joe Loose in Cleveland and other "depleted" groups, they're not trying to "rebuild" themselves into the mold of the Sopranos where they have made members kicking up to capos who kick up to them. Instead they are carrying the flag and remain connected that way. Anyone wants to go out to LA they can see Tommy as a point of contact. That's significant power. It may not look like much to outsiders who are expecting fireworks but its not our organization. We can study it, try to measure it, try to explain it but that's it.

In regards to Todaro who appears to be representative of a 30-45 man group, what incentive is there for him to close up shop? He's not a drug lord with lieutenants reporting to him about "the business" he's a rep of a group of members who engage in diverse activities ranging from legal to illicit that don't directly implicate him. And given how wealthy he is, he may not want to even do anything that links him financially. So what's this purpose? I mean if these dealers were in Florida and got into some dispute with some Gambinos, calls and introductions would be made from the administrators to try and settle the issue. It could revolve around a major dope deal (unlikely) or it could involve a dispute over a Buffalonian calling a Gambino's wife fat.

Pennisi has proven himself to be one of the most informative pentiti in recent times because he talks about the protocol, the regulations and how they play out. Most of the disputes that involve sitdowns with capos and soldiers seem to always be about egos rather than who gets a 50,000 bookmaking operation. Their problems seem like something from Days of the Our Lives, but it's always been that way. I'll post an excerpt of a dispute that occured in 1911 involving a shootout between 3 members of two different NY Families because a guy turned down a drink.

[Newyorkempire]

Yeah, that's why I say "some" could be. Just leaving it open because we're in the dark on their true status. The WNY/Ontario situation is a great example of how important member sources are... if a Bonanno member didn't wear a wire and capture the underboss admitting the organization was inducting members and named a new boss, we'd be even more clueless about these WNY drug dealers. The implication now is that they're "with" the Family but in what capacity we don't know.

It's like the Historic Info thread... CC can post Secret Service documents that identify well-connected counterfeiters from the 1910s, but unless Clemente said the guy's a member we can only speculate about a given guy's affiliation/stature.

+1

[Newyorkempire]

We really need insiders. Throughout mob history there's been very serious guys-killers whom everyone thought were members turns out weren't, and guys who we never heard of who seem lackluster who actually were. Made Guys aren't made equal.

And these groups don't need to leave bodies on the street to exist. Let's consider Tommy Gambino in LA, Joe Loose in Cleveland and other "depleted" groups, they're not trying to "rebuild" themselves into the mold of the Sopranos where they have made members kicking up to capos who kick up to them. Instead they are carrying the flag and remain connected that way. Anyone wants to go out to LA they can see Tommy as a point of contact. That's significant power. It may not look like much to outsiders who are expecting fireworks but its not our organization. We can study it, try to measure it, try to explain it but that's it.

In regards to Todaro who appears to be representative of a 30-45 man group, what incentive is there for him to close up shop? He's not a drug lord with lieutenants reporting to him about "the business" he's a rep of a group of members who engage in diverse activities ranging from legal to illicit that don't directly implicate him. And given how wealthy he is, he may not want to even do anything that links him financially. So what's this purpose? I mean if these dealers were in Florida and got into some dispute with some Gambinos, calls and introductions would be made from the administrators to try and settle the issue. It could revolve around a major dope deal (unlikely) or it could involve a dispute over a Buffalonian calling a Gambino's wife fat.

Pennisi has proven himself to be one of the most informative pentiti in recent times because he talks about the protocol, the regulations and how they play out. Most of the disputes that involve sitdowns with capos and soldiers seem to always be about egos rather than who gets a 50,000 bookmaking operation. Their problems seem like something from Days of the Our Lives, but it's always been that way. I'll post an excerpt of a dispute that occured in 1911 involving a shootout between 3 members of two different NY Families because a guy turned down a drink.
[/quote

Thats why I keep saying amalgamation/adaptation but none the less, a Mafia in todays era.

[Angelo Santino]

[/quote

Thats why I keep saying amalgamation/adaptation but none the less, a Mafia in todays era.

Or any other era. San Francisco, San Jose, Pueblo, New Orleans weren't much to look at from the outside in the 60's. It didn't diminish them in the eyes of the other groups who recognized them just like they recognize Buffalo and LA today.