Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Wiseguy]

More file cleaning. Posted here for easy access.


"We still feel the LCN (La Casa Nostra) is a viable and visible threat to Western New York," says Virgil D. Woolley, acting head of the Buffalo FBI office. But he admits the Buffalo mob has a weak pulse and resuscitation seems unlikely without strong leadership and profitable criminal enterprises. - The Withered Arm of the Buffalo Mafia Is All About Losing Its Old Fashioned Values and Falling Behind the Times, The Buffalo News (Lee Coppola), 1998

Today, despite rumors that what was once the Magaddino family still operates here, federal organized crime investigators say those tales just aren’t true. They say small numbers of loosely associated individuals may still get together to commit what once were Mafia style crimes, but it’s not like the old days. - End of Organized Crime in Niagara Falls, Buffalo, Niagara Gazette, 2006

“A 10-year, government-enforced cleanup of Local 210 ends today with the retirement of John J. "Jack" McDonnell as the union's court-appointed liaison officer. McDonnell, a former FBI special agent, gave the union a clean bill of health in a recent report to U.S. District Judge Richard J. Arcara. He said he believes the current leaders of the local are ready to run the operation themselves, with no government supervision.” - Local 210 Gets Clean Bill Of Health 10-Year, Government-Enforced Cleanup Of Union Ends Today With The Retirement Of Its Overseer, The Buffalo News (Dan Herbeck), 2006 

“There’s a few of the old-timers still around in Buffalo, but that’s about it,” one current federal inmate told the Niagara Falls Reporter. “There’s really nothing left to organize.” - Mob May Be Dead But Not Forgotten, Niagara Falls Reporter (Mike Hudson), 2012

"Even the most optimistic observers say the old Magaddino outfit has but 20 made guys left at most, and the majority of them have long since qualified for Social Security." - Who Will Lead Now That Todaro, Nicoletti  Are Gone, Niagara Falls Reporter (Mike Hudson), 2013

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around. But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses that we know of.” - Adam S. Cohen, SAC Buffalo FBI; The Mafia Is All But Dead In Western New York. So What Killed It? - The Buffalo News (Dan Herbeck), 2017

“The Mafia, and the way of life that fostered the Mafia, is pretty much gone,” said Lee Coppola, 73, a former federal prosecutor and news reporter who grew up among mobsters and their families on Buffalo’s West Side. - The Mafia Is All But Dead In Western New York. So What Killed It? - The Buffalo News (Dan Herbeck), 2017

Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader. - The Mafia Is All But Dead In Western New York. So What Killed It? - The Buffalo News (Dan Herbeck), 2017

“There are a few remnants of the mob that still exist in Buffalo,” said Ronald Fino, a former union leader who helped the FBI investigate the local mob, “but it’s not the same.” - The Mafia Is All But Dead In Western New York. So What Killed It? - The Buffalo News (Dan Herbeck), 2017 (changed his tune in 2021)

“Once we got them out of Local 210, that was the beginning of the end for the Buffalo mob,” said Andrew Goralski, a former Buffalo FBI agent who retired in 2007. “That was their power source in Buffalo.” - Andew Goralski, Former FBI - The Mafia Is All But Dead In Western New York. So What Killed It? - The Buffalo News (Dan Herbeck), 2017

(Answering the question if he believes there is still a Buffalo mob) "Being away from it for 3/12 years it's difficult for me to give a really good answer. I don't think so. I don't know where this information is coming from. Because when I left the U.S. Attorney's Office, if there were any made members of the Mafia around they were literally on life support. And there wasn't any plans that I knew of to take on new members. So I don't think there's much there, if anything at all. - Tony Bruce (Assistant US Attorney Western District NY, Organized Crime and National Security Division), 2019 

(Answering the question if he believes there is still a Buffalo mob) "Well I have two initials for the Canadian mobster's claims about the Buffalo mob - BS. I'm certainly not a reporter anymore but am still familiar with the actors and late actors in the mob, and I simply say, where's the revenue? If there's no revenue then there's no mob. And there's nothing of organized criminal activity that you would related to the Arm, the old Buffalo Mafia existing. Certainly there's crime, don't get me wrong, but it's criminal enterprises of different ethnic groups or start-up criminals, nothing related to an organized criminal family that has a head, has lieutenants, has a consigliere, and soldiers, things of that nature. It just doesn't exist in Buffalo or throughout basically Magaddino's empire, except there is a criminal enterprise going on in Canada because when Magaddino lost his grip of the Buffalo Arm or the Buffalo Family, the Canadians took over with fervor." - Lee Coppola, former Buffalo News reporter, 2019

(Answering the question if he believes there is still a Buffalo mob) "I think it's akin in the business world going from a company, that employed a lot of people up and down the line, to independent contractors. You hire independent contractors, you do business with independent contractors, on an as-needed basis." - Salvatore Martoche (retired NY Supreme Court, former NY State Commission of Investigation, former US Attorney Western District of NY)

"What happens a lot of times is, there are criminal elements, people who commit crimes or people who are investigated for crimes, and if they happen to have a last name that ends in a vowel the tendency is to say 'Oh, there's a crime family, La Cosa Nostra, the Mafia is thriving and growing;' I have trouble believing that." - Lee Coppola (former Buffalo News reporter), I 2019 (I-Team: Is Strip Club Raid A Sign of Buffalo Mafia Resurgance?, WKBW TV)

"There's a difference between an organized criminal syndicate, like the Mafia, and those who are just committing crimes.  - Peter Ahearn, Former SAC Buffalo FBI (Federal Investigation of Buffalo Mob Resurgence Heats Up With New Indictment, WKBW TV, 2021)

[Newyorkempire]

All these articles were refuted many times by posters on this forum, mafia members on wiretaps, undercover LE/mafia members on wiretaps, other journalists' articles, Finos recent podcast interview, US Attorney Tripi court filings, the fact Gerace has an New York Outlaw President working for him (would have to be in direct communication with the closest Ontario Outlaw President) and the contradictory wording in the articles themselves.

What the Buffalo Mafia is now is not 1975 Godfather style. Its a mix of old and new. Tradition and non tradition. Family lineage and outsiders. The Mafia in the U.S. is not the same as it was and never will be. Its more fluid.

The one article that sticks out the most is the 1998 one where the journalist claims its "viable and visible" but then says it doesnt exist basically, what???? Lol. You cant have it both ways, sorry. Especially when that year Catz and Musitano are caught on wiretap talking about Papalia. Todaro, Todaro Jr., Nicoletti Sr., Nicoletti Jr., Falzone, both Sansanese brothers, Bifulco, and countless other heavy hitters were alive and on the streets. The articles you posted are a mixed mess of not knowing what the fuck is going on, while trying to push their journalism or even protect people they have known for years as they claim.

[NickleCity]

Nice timeline Wiseguy, thank you. Also, good to have the statements alleging the Buffalo crime family’s demise/lack of viability all in one spot. Minor detail about Peter Militello: I am not sure he was an actual CI for Bongiovanni. In the original indictment Militello is listed in a count 1 “Conspiracy to Defraud US Govt.” section that talks about his “false and misleading statements.” In my opinion, Bongiovanni said he was a CI to justify his having the DEA file in his home that he wasn’t supposed to have.

[Wiseguy]

All these articles were refuted many times by posters on this forum, mafia members on wiretaps, undercover LE/mafia members on wiretaps, other journalists' articles, Finos recent podcast interview, US Attorney Tripi court filings, the fact Gerace has an New York Outlaw President working for him (would have to be in direct communication with the closest Ontario Outlaw President) and the contradictory wording in the articles themselves.

You talk as if there is a wealth of contradictory information and statements to the above. There isn't. Refuted by posters on this forum? Who gives a flying rat's ass what internet posters say? Refuted by Mafia members on wiretap? Other than Violi's single statement about "beating out 30 other guys," which has yet to be proven, what other wiretaps are you referring to? Other journalists articles? I've seen a few here and there, including ones from Canada who generally focus on things north of the border. Not so much the state of the organization in Buffalo. The Buffalo News and other local press have covered recent events as they've transpired over the last 5 years or so, which can generally be categorized into two subjects - Hamilton and the Bongiovanni case. However, while they've floated the theory/question of a resurgent Buffalo mob, I don't recall any current journalists taking any hard stances like those I posted above. Fino said the exact opposite of what he's saying now a few years ago. He's appears to just be trying to read the tea leaves as any other outsider would and has no special insight at this point. The US Attorney court filings don't say what you claim they do. They haven't established a RICO cases because they can't. The best they've come up with is addressing "Italian Organized Crime" in rather general and vague terms. It's why former FBI agents aren't buying it. And what does Gerace having an Outlaw President as the general manager of his strip club have to do with the current existence of a crime family in Buffalo? Do you think rattling off a bunch of impertinent points is going to fool anyone or is it just an intentional distraction?

What the Buffalo Mafia is now is not 1975 Godfather style. Its a mix of old and new. Tradition and non tradition. Family lineage and outsiders. The Mafia in the U.S. is not the same as it was and never will be. Its more fluid.

That's a copout. You talk as if the current nature and makeup of organized crime in Western NY has been by design. That's not the case at all. The "fluidity," so called, we see in Buffalo is because the formal organization has withered away over time and most of the evidence shows there are only a dozen members still living; most of them old and inactive. Now, we see in Buffalo exactly what we see in several other cities - mostly inactive members save for perhaps some here or there, associates of a defunct crime family now acting independently, as well as some family members or descendants of mob figures doing the same. The more you try to make this into something it isn't, the more disappointed you're going to be.

The one article that sticks out the most is the 1998 one where the journalist claims its "viable and visible" but then says it doesnt exist basically, what???? Lol. You cant have it both ways, sorry. Especially when that year Catz and Musitano are caught on wiretap talking about Papalia. Todaro, Todaro Jr., Nicoletti Sr., Nicoletti Jr., Falzone, both Sansanese brothers, Bifulco, and countless other heavy hitters were alive and on the streets. The articles you posted are a mixed mess of not knowing what the fuck is going on, while trying to push their journalism or even protect people they have known for years as they claim.

Alive and on the streets? What does that mean exactly? What were these guys doing from the late 1990s to the present besides dying off? As has been pointed out several times, over the last 20+ years now, only a single made member has been indicted in Buffalo. Friggin' Kansas City had more than that. And it would be only a single made member in the family, period, if not for Violi's bust in 2017. You need to quit pretending there was a lot going on, and lots of active "heavy hitters" on the streets, because that's bullshit. When it comes to a "mixed mess of not knowing what the fuck is going on," that is you to...a...T. You want to know why there are well over 300 pages in this thread? Because one group knows how to accurately interpret the available information, while the other group doesn't. And you're in the latter group.

[Newyorkempire]

I act as if my opinion is not yours and give my reasons why. Not sure what you re still confused about. We can do this another 12 rounds if you still need further clarifications.

[NickleCity]

apparently he was collecting debts for anthonys Geraces gambling operation
Louis Turchiarelli

anyone know of a guy with the nickname fern ?

http://niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories ... /whil.html

Looks like you may be right Stroccos. Here is a screenshot of court documents related to Anthony Gerace's upcoming sentencing that indicates he used and ex-boxer to collect debts.

Anthony Gerace (Gambling Records & Former Boxer as Enforcer).png

Here is the link to document from which this screenshot was taken: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16 ... -v-gerace/

Could be coincidence, but given the story you mention in The Niagara Fall Reporter and which I, also, highlighted in my post on potential mob activity in the Buffalo Mob's "Dead Years," and the fact that Lou was arrested in Rochester for trying to collect gambling debts with threats of extortion and violence--It sure raises an eyebrow!

THE DEAD YEARS: Arrests/Indictments/Investigations Related to Individuals Who May Have Ties to the "Remnants" of Buffalo Crime Family

For many the lack of known arrests and indictments for the period of 2006 to the present are indicators that the Buffalo Crime family is dead and that any activity is from remnants of the family. This is certainly a reasonable argument. The issue is this: If one believes the crime family is dead he or she may overlook or dismiss possible activity. However, the opposite is true as well. Those who believe the crime family is active may find it in places where it is not.

Below I outline 17 different incidents where those involved appear to have connections to people who are/were in or have had associations with the Buffalo crime family during this time period. This doesn't mean all incidents are connected to the Buffalo mob. However, the more I look into connections the more I believe the Buffalo crime family has been active all along. At the very least it has influenced a great deal of criminal behavior even today.

1. 2006: Turchiarelli, Cimento, and Bianchi indicted for trying to collect a gambling debts in Rochester threats of extortion and violence…

Turchiarelli
Here is a link to article: https://buffalonews.com/2006/05/04/ex-c ... tion-plot/ Here is a link to Turchiarelli being accused of being mafia enforcer: https://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/St ... /whil.html

Joe Cimanto
Found no connections for Cimento to Buffalo mob accept to Turchiarelli and Bianchi

Joe Bianchi
The Bianchi’s were often associated with Rochester faction. See: http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.c ... -list.html In the 70’s/80’s they owned restaurants frequented by the mob in Rochester.

Richard Bianchi is currently chairman of WNY OTB (Off Track Betting) which is being investigated by a Federal Grand Jury. Here is the link: https://www.investigativepost.org/2019/ ... igate-otb/ The OTB in WNY has been accused of intimidating witnesses. Here is the article: https://www.investigativepost.org/2019/ ... g-witness/

In 1977 Joe Gerace, a Vegas blackjack dealer, was indicted on manslaughter charges in Buffalo.



It appears Joe Gerace had a relationship with Richard Turchiarelli who was also involved in the beating after a engagement party for a Buffalo police officer named Richard Atti See screen shot and this casetext link: https://casetext.com/case/people-v-gramaglia



Is Richard Turchiarelli related to the exBoxer and possible enforcer for the Geraces'? I don't know for sure, but I did dig up a Richard who is related to a Lou but I don't know in what capacity or if it is the same Lou. Does anyone have any information on this?

Joe Gerace is friendly with the Todaro's (if not related to them and the Gerace family in Buffalo.) He signed both Joe Todaro Sr. and Josephine "Nanni T's" obituary guestbooks.



Also of interest is the involvement of tobacco salesman Jack Giammaresi given the Buffalo crime family has had significant involvement in tobacco smuggling in conjunction with the indigenous peoples and their reservations in upstate NY. Also interesting that this incident involved another Buffalo police officer Philip Gramaglia. Perhaps the Gerace family has had a lot of "influence" on law enforcement in WNY.

Here is a link to a WIVB news video of Atti, Giammaresi, & Gramaglia's sentencing: https://cdm16694.contentdm.oclc.org/dig ... d/88/rec/1

[Newyorkempire]

All these articles were refuted many times by posters on this forum, mafia members on wiretaps, undercover LE/mafia members on wiretaps, other journalists' articles, Finos recent podcast interview, US Attorney Tripi court filings, the fact Gerace has an New York Outlaw President working for him (would have to be in direct communication with the closest Ontario Outlaw President) and the contradictory wording in the articles themselves.

You talk as if there is a wealth of contradictory information and statements to the above. There isn't. Refuted by posters on this forum? Who gives a flying rat's ass what internet posters say? Refuted by Mafia members on wiretap? Other than Violi's single statement about "beating out 30 other guys," which has yet to be proven, what other wiretaps are you referring to? Other journalists articles? I've seen a few here and there, including ones from Canada who generally focus on things north of the border. Not so much the state of the organization in Buffalo. The Buffalo News and other local press have covered recent events as they've transpired over the last 5 years or so, which can generally be categorized into two subjects - Hamilton and the Bongiovanni case. However, while they've floated the theory/question of a resurgent Buffalo mob, I don't recall any current journalists taking any hard stances like those I posted above. Fino said the exact opposite of what he's saying now a few years ago. He's appears to just be trying to read the tea leaves as any other outsider would and has no special insight at this point. The US Attorney court filings don't say what you claim they do. They haven't established a RICO cases because they can't. The best they've come up with is addressing "Italian Organized Crime" in rather general and vague terms. It's why former FBI agents aren't buying it. And what does Gerace having an Outlaw President as the general manager of his strip club have to do with the current existence of a crime family in Buffalo? Do you think rattling off a bunch of impertinent points is going to fool anyone or is it just an intentional distraction?

What the Buffalo Mafia is now is not 1975 Godfather style. Its a mix of old and new. Tradition and non tradition. Family lineage and outsiders. The Mafia in the U.S. is not the same as it was and never will be. Its more fluid.

That's a copout. You talk as if the current nature and makeup of organized crime in Western NY has been by design. That's not the case at all. The "fluidity," so called, we see in Buffalo is because the formal organization has withered away over time and most of the evidence shows there are only a dozen members still living; most of them old and inactive. Now, we see in Buffalo exactly what we see in several other cities - mostly inactive members save for perhaps some here or there, associates of a defunct crime family now acting independently, as well as some family members or descendants of mob figures doing the same. The more you try to make this into something it isn't, the more disappointed you're going to be.

The one article that sticks out the most is the 1998 one where the journalist claims its "viable and visible" but then says it doesnt exist basically, what???? Lol. You cant have it both ways, sorry. Especially when that year Catz and Musitano are caught on wiretap talking about Papalia. Todaro, Todaro Jr., Nicoletti Sr., Nicoletti Jr., Falzone, both Sansanese brothers, Bifulco, and countless other heavy hitters were alive and on the streets. The articles you posted are a mixed mess of not knowing what the fuck is going on, while trying to push their journalism or even protect people they have known for years as they claim.

Alive and on the streets? What does that mean exactly? What were these guys doing from the late 1990s to the present besides dying off? As has been pointed out several times, over the last 20+ years now, only a single made member has been indicted in Buffalo. Friggin' Kansas City had more than that. And it would be only a single made member in the family, period, if not for Violi's bust in 2017. You need to quit pretending there was a lot going on, and lots of active "heavy hitters" on the streets, because that's bullshit. When it comes to a "mixed mess of not knowing what the fuck is going on," that is you to...a...T. You want to know why there are well over 300 pages in this thread? Because one group knows how to accurately interpret the available information, while the other group doesn't. And you're in the latter group.

Lol what a joke...

Heavy hitters yes.....in 1998...immediately after the Papalia hit Musitano and Catz on wire. If you Don t see this alone as proof the family still operating when that article came out then you need go back and get your GED guy. Holy shit.

Heavy hitters yes...guys who did a lot of work...thats what that means...they didnt sit down in the mid 90s and say hey Joey you should stop being boss were good guys now, no Mafia here....hey Benny, stop that bookmaking thing you run in NY and Ontario, too much heat...hey Butchie stop scamming, youre better than that. Get it? Of course not, makes too much sense for a guy on the losing side of chronology.

Heavy hitters yes...1998

Todaro
Todaro Jr.
Falzone
Sansanese brothers
Bifulco
Billiteri
Mazzara
Catz
Nicoletti Sr
Nicoletti Jr.

Etc., etc., etc.

These are considered heavy hitters...get it? Of course not. And now you bring Kansas City into it as if its the same thing. Such a goof.

1998 to now all contradictions yes. Your confusion really is magical or is it delusion? Or ADD or OCD...ah whats it matter professor youd blame it on an article you read anyway about something that contradicted you and then try to use it to prove a point thats already been refuted 100x. I have pity on you as you get severely debunked every time you use single narrative articles and contradictory FBI files as if you wrote them. Its like trying to explain to a 3 year old what rocket science is. Feel bad for you "Wise"guy but you already knew that, I m still here rooting for the common sense you learned while in your parents basement all those years those. Good luck guy.

[Newyorkempire]

apparently he was collecting debts for anthonys Geraces gambling operation
Louis Turchiarelli

anyone know of a guy with the nickname fern ?

http://niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories ... /whil.html

Looks like you may be right Stroccos. Here is a screenshot of court documents related to Anthony Gerace's upcoming sentencing that indicates he used and ex-boxer to collect debts.

Anthony Gerace (Gambling Records & Former Boxer as Enforcer).png

Here is the link to document from which this screenshot was taken: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16 ... -v-gerace/

Could be coincidence, but given the story you mention in The Niagara Fall Reporter and which I, also, highlighted in my post on potential mob activity in the Buffalo Mob's "Dead Years," and the fact that Lou was arrested in Rochester for trying to collect gambling debts with threats of extortion and violence--It sure raises an eyebrow!

THE DEAD YEARS: Arrests/Indictments/Investigations Related to Individuals Who May Have Ties to the "Remnants" of Buffalo Crime Family

For many the lack of known arrests and indictments for the period of 2006 to the present are indicators that the Buffalo Crime family is dead and that any activity is from remnants of the family. This is certainly a reasonable argument. The issue is this: If one believes the crime family is dead he or she may overlook or dismiss possible activity. However, the opposite is true as well. Those who believe the crime family is active may find it in places where it is not.

Below I outline 17 different incidents where those involved appear to have connections to people who are/were in or have had associations with the Buffalo crime family during this time period. This doesn't mean all incidents are connected to the Buffalo mob. However, the more I look into connections the more I believe the Buffalo crime family has been active all along. At the very least it has influenced a great deal of criminal behavior even today.

1. 2006: Turchiarelli, Cimento, and Bianchi indicted for trying to collect a gambling debts in Rochester threats of extortion and violence…

Turchiarelli
Here is a link to article: https://buffalonews.com/2006/05/04/ex-c ... tion-plot/ Here is a link to Turchiarelli being accused of being mafia enforcer: https://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/St ... /whil.html

Joe Cimanto
Found no connections for Cimento to Buffalo mob accept to Turchiarelli and Bianchi

Joe Bianchi
The Bianchi’s were often associated with Rochester faction. See: http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.c ... -list.html In the 70’s/80’s they owned restaurants frequented by the mob in Rochester.

Richard Bianchi is currently chairman of WNY OTB (Off Track Betting) which is being investigated by a Federal Grand Jury. Here is the link: https://www.investigativepost.org/2019/ ... igate-otb/ The OTB in WNY has been accused of intimidating witnesses. Here is the article: https://www.investigativepost.org/2019/ ... g-witness/

In 1977 Joe Gerace, a Vegas blackjack dealer, was indicted on manslaughter charges in Buffalo.



It appears Joe Gerace had a relationship with Richard Turchiarelli who was also involved in the beating after a engagement party for a Buffalo police officer named Richard Atti See screen shot and this casetext link: https://casetext.com/case/people-v-gramaglia



Is Richard Turchiarelli related to the exBoxer and possible enforcer for the Geraces'? I don't know for sure, but I did dig up a Richard who is related to a Lou but I don't know in what capacity or if it is the same Lou. Does anyone have any information on this?

Joe Gerace is friendly with the Todaro's (if not related to them and the Gerace family in Buffalo.) He signed both Joe Todaro Sr. and Josephine "Nanni T's" obituary guestbooks.



Also of interest is the involvement of tobacco salesman Jack Giammaresi given the Buffalo crime family has had significant involvement in tobacco smuggling in conjunction with the indigenous peoples and their reservations in upstate NY. Also interesting that this incident involved another Buffalo police officer Philip Gramaglia. Perhaps the Gerace family has had a lot of "influence" on law enforcement in WNY.

Here is a link to a WIVB news video of Atti, Giammaresi, & Gramaglia's sentencing: https://cdm16694.contentdm.oclc.org/dig ... d/88/rec/1

17 relatable indictments since 2006....no evidence at all simple Italian guys getting involved with the wrong set of other Italian guys who can all be connected to the Mafia.

Cue you know who, to again scratch and scrap to say...wait wait that cant make sense everyone said they were dead...blah blah blah..as he short circuits into oblivion and then regurgitates the same articles as if they arent contradictory. That guy is fn crazy. He can say what he wants about others but holey moley hes really certifiable.

[Newyorkempire]

Many unknown to media and law guys still operating too, back to the old days...now don t get mad "You Know Who"...some people know things outside of the coloring books you read.

[Pogo The Clown]

Rooster is off his meds again with his barely coherent posts in rapid succession.


Pogo

[Newyorkempire]

All these articles were refuted many times by posters on this forum, mafia members on wiretaps, undercover LE/mafia members on wiretaps, other journalists' articles, Finos recent podcast interview, US Attorney Tripi court filings, the fact Gerace has an New York Outlaw President working for him (would have to be in direct communication with the closest Ontario Outlaw President) and the contradictory wording in the articles themselves.

You talk as if there is a wealth of contradictory information and statements to the above. There isn't. Refuted by posters on this forum? Who gives a flying rat's ass what internet posters say? Refuted by Mafia members on wiretap? Other than Violi's single statement about "beating out 30 other guys," which has yet to be proven, what other wiretaps are you referring to? Other journalists articles? I've seen a few here and there, including ones from Canada who generally focus on things north of the border. Not so much the state of the organization in Buffalo. The Buffalo News and other local press have covered recent events as they've transpired over the last 5 years or so, which can generally be categorized into two subjects - Hamilton and the Bongiovanni case. However, while they've floated the theory/question of a resurgent Buffalo mob, I don't recall any current journalists taking any hard stances like those I posted above. Fino said the exact opposite of what he's saying now a few years ago. He's appears to just be trying to read the tea leaves as any other outsider would and has no special insight at this point. The US Attorney court filings don't say what you claim they do. They haven't established a RICO cases because they can't. The best they've come up with is addressing "Italian Organized Crime" in rather general and vague terms. It's why former FBI agents aren't buying it. And what does Gerace having an Outlaw President as the general manager of his strip club have to do with the current existence of a crime family in Buffalo? Do you think rattling off a bunch of impertinent points is going to fool anyone or is it just an intentional distraction?

What the Buffalo Mafia is now is not 1975 Godfather style. Its a mix of old and new. Tradition and non tradition. Family lineage and outsiders. The Mafia in the U.S. is not the same as it was and never will be. Its more fluid.

That's a copout. You talk as if the current nature and makeup of organized crime in Western NY has been by design. That's not the case at all. The "fluidity," so called, we see in Buffalo is because the formal organization has withered away over time and most of the evidence shows there are only a dozen members still living; most of them old and inactive. Now, we see in Buffalo exactly what we see in several other cities - mostly inactive members save for perhaps some here or there, associates of a defunct crime family now acting independently, as well as some family members or descendants of mob figures doing the same. The more you try to make this into something it isn't, the more disappointed you're going to be.

The one article that sticks out the most is the 1998 one where the journalist claims its "viable and visible" but then says it doesnt exist basically, what???? Lol. You cant have it both ways, sorry. Especially when that year Catz and Musitano are caught on wiretap talking about Papalia. Todaro, Todaro Jr., Nicoletti Sr., Nicoletti Jr., Falzone, both Sansanese brothers, Bifulco, and countless other heavy hitters were alive and on the streets. The articles you posted are a mixed mess of not knowing what the fuck is going on, while trying to push their journalism or even protect people they have known for years as they claim.

Alive and on the streets? What does that mean exactly? What were these guys doing from the late 1990s to the present besides dying off? As has been pointed out several times, over the last 20+ years now, only a single made member has been indicted in Buffalo. Friggin' Kansas City had more than that. And it would be only a single made member in the family, period, if not for Violi's bust in 2017. You need to quit pretending there was a lot going on, and lots of active "heavy hitters" on the streets, because that's bullshit. When it comes to a "mixed mess of not knowing what the fuck is going on," that is you to...a...T. You want to know why there are well over 300 pages in this thread? Because one group knows how to accurately interpret the available information, while the other group doesn't. And you're in the latter group.

Several murders throughout the 90s as well. Moves into Vegas rackets. But no youre right. The article is totally accurate but wait, totally false at the same time. Good "Wise"guy. Totally enlightening. You really know what youre doing.

[Newyorkempire]

Rooster is off his meds again with his barely coherent posts in rapid succession.


Pogo

Time for Logo to high five "Wise"guy now. You guys are the best lol. Love you Logo for real. You two would have made a great couple in high a school.

[Wiseguy]

Rooster is off his meds again with his barely coherent posts in rapid succession.


Pogo

I'm blame myself for trying to reason with the retard.

Honestly, I haven't seen this kind of mob fanboyism in years.

[Newyorkempire]

Rooster is off his meds again with his barely coherent posts in rapid succession.


Pogo

I'm blame myself for trying to reason with the retard.

Honestly, I haven't seen this kind of mob fanboyism in years.

Name calling, poor guy. He must not be having a good experience. 300 pages and still cant convince anyone hes right. "Wise"guy must be getting mad.

Heres another refute for you goofball...

From:

Auger, Michel; Edwards, Peter (2012). The Encyclopedia of Canadian Organized Crime: From Captain Kidd to Mom Boucher. Toronto: McClelland & Stewart. ISBN 0771030495..

"Barillaro attended a meeting in June of 1997 in Buffalo with Senior Maggadino Family leaders seeking permission to kill Pat Musitano and was granted such."


See the problem with your theories is they can easily be refuted because theres no way to prove its the truth. Its you relying on admitted misinformation. You have no real explanations to any of the evidence you are given that leads to the proof of there still being a viable family in 1998 up to now. And then you call people like me and Nickle crazy to assume its operating, and yes there is others...while youre the biggest FBI dick riding fan boy on here. The irony is mind blowing.

You tried using no RICO as a basis when theres never been a RICO case in Buffalo, then you ignore basic, common sense such as several wiretaps (Catz/Musitano, Violi), several murders in the 90s, US Attorney TripI calling them alive, countless articles (Fino, Sergi, Edwards, Humphries), Canadian ex police (Paul Manning), 17 indictments relatable to the Buffalo Mob since 2006, articles saying Falzone took over in the 2010s (forget the author of that one), dozens and dozens of associates going back to the Maggadino days still alive, and NONE of us knowing if theres been any recent making ceremonies. NONE OF US, do you get that retard???

This thread is 300 pages because not everyone believes your take or the contradictory articles and FBI statements you provide. Soooo, that then makes YOU the retard becauuuuuuuse YOURE too stupid to realize that. Like I said before, youd be the quietest one in the room if we were all in person. You know shit other than what you read. Therefore, YOUUUU, personally know nothing.

Now get angry, act in disbelief and reference some family like Denver as if its the same thing when comparing to Buffalo. "Wiseguy"? Lol right, sure.

[Wiseguy]

Name calling, poor guy. He must not be having a good experience. 300 pages and still cant convince anyone hes right. "Wise"guy must be getting mad.

Heres another refute for you goofball...

From:

Auger, Michel; Edwards, Peter (2012). The Encyclopedia of Canadian Organized Crime: From Captain Kidd to Mom Boucher. Toronto: McClelland & Stewart. ISBN 0771030495..

"Barillaro attended a meeting in June of 1997 in Buffalo with Senior Maggadino Family leaders seeking permission to kill Pat Musitano and was granted such."


See the problem with your theories is they can easily be refuted because theres no way to prove its the truth. Its you relying on admitted misinformation. You have no real explanations to any of the evidence you are given that leads to the proof of there still being a viable family in 1998 up to now. And then you call people like me and Nickle crazy to assume its operating, and yes there is others...while youre the biggest FBI dick riding fan boy on here. The irony is mind blowing.

You tried using no RICO as a basis when theres never been a RICO case in Buffalo, then you ignore basic, common sense such as several wiretaps (Catz/Musitano, Violi), several murders in the 90s, US Attorney TripI calling them alive, countless articles (Fino, Sergi, Edwards, Humphries), Canadian ex police (Paul Manning), 17 indictments relatable to the Buffalo Mob since 2006, articles saying Falzone took over in the 2010s (forget the author of that one), dozens and dozens of associates going back to the Maggadino days still alive, and NONE of us knowing if theres been any recent making ceremonies. NONE OF US, do you get that retard???

This thread is 300 pages because not everyone believes your take or the contradictory articles and FBI statements you provide. Soooo, that then makes YOU the retard becauuuuuuuse YOURE too stupid to realize that. Like I said before, youd be the quietest one in the room if we were all in person. You know shit other than what you read. Therefore, YOUUUU, personally know nothing.

Now get angry, act in disbelief and reference some family like Denver as if its the same thing when comparing to Buffalo. "Wiseguy"? Lol right, sure.

I'm done trying to reason with someone who's driving force is wanting there to be a mob family in Buffalo. You don't address my points anyway. You dodge them and going on a multi-post ramblefest full of half-truths and misleading bullshit.

You showed the same neurotic thinking with Pittsburgh. Almost like you were hoping there were at least one or two guys still around after Ciancutti. It's mob fanboyism at its worst and it's pathetic. We all enjoy reading about OC. But those of you who can't - or should I say won't - see when a family is gone are the worst. You're like a child who won't grow up.

I'll deal in reality and leave you to your worthless opinions. Just remember, I wipe my ass with your opinions.