Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Newyorkempire]

Wiseguy, again. Your narrative and analysis of the evidence is irrelevant. Now what? What d ont you undersrand? Are you ok? Lol

I tell you what the FBI has said and you just stick your fingers in your ears and chant "La la la la la la!" And you wonder why I consider you a fanboy.

And no actually the FBI said in the late 2000s Falzone took over the Family. So again youre cherry picking varying FBI statements to fulfill your own narrative.

And it's already been pointed out many times before, there are several families who have made or promoted guys when there was no real functioning organization left.

Who the Fuck would have promoted Falzone if there was no one to promote him to anything?? Wtf. Are you talking about Loscalzo in Tampa or who?? Apples and oranges man.

[NickleCity]

Nickle,

Do you have the article where FBI indicates Falzone took over?

It was a Niagara Falls Reporter from Jan 2013 article that stated:

According to the FBI, Leonard “The Calzone” Falzone took over as acting boss of the family when Todaro stepped down in 2006, after years of serving as an enforcer, hit man and finally a capo in the organization. Falzone has of course denied this.
Still, the feds say Falzone was ultimately named consigliere to the Buffalo family in 1987.

See: https://www.niagarafallsreporter.com/St ... letti.html

[Newyorkempire]

So the FBI said in 2006 that the Buffalo Mafia was dead only after 8 years removed from Papalia hit with 20 made guys (at least) on the streets. Minus BiFulco. And then the same year the FBI said that Falzone had taken over the Buffalo Mafia. Mine and Nickles point Proven, based on tbe FBIs own contradictory statement. Cue Wise guy to apim this somehow to defend the FBI and that it shows full competency no matter the evident ambiguity. Cant wait for this...

[Newyorkempire]

Lets not forget to mention the FBI has claimed the Gambinos are dead 15 times? since the 70s. Lets not forget the countless FBI cover ups throughout history. The Commission Case wiped out the Mafia like they claimed right? No. Giuliani who paraded that RICO act around like a pony is now an accused criminal himself. FBI fanboy Wise guy is for sure, which there is nothing wrong with. He chose that life, as his moniker states.

And lets definitely not forget guys like Wiseguy think that the FBI are honest and have no reason to lie and would never possibly be wrong on a Crime Family that since its inception worked hand in hand with the government to skirt laws and play bedfellows.

[Newyorkempire]

Wiseguy.

I seriously want to thank you for fighting for justice on this issue. I will now start to believe you, who distorts evidence in order to dissuade others from having their own set of beliefs, is not from Buffalo, monitors "fan boys" but whos moniker is "Wiseguy" to make sure they arent fans and them pretends like he knows how many actual members there are based on nothing, just because a formal record printed by the FBI has not come out recently. I d ont know where Id be without you. Thank you for all your retrospective. Means a lot to me and others. Hopefully your anger for people who believe in different things than you will subside as you mature and get older.

First, you brought us into this. Neither Pogo or myself commented on Nickle's post until you started running your mouth.

Second, it's not about fighting for "justice." It's keeping things grounded in reality. I can't control what you believe but I can call out bullshit passed off as fact when I see it.

Third, I chose the term "Wiseguy" 15 years ago because I had recently reread the book and it was the first thing that came to mind. When this forum started, I had been watching MASH reruns and went by the name "Frank Burns." But soliai asked me to go back to Wiseguy because that's who people know me as, so I did. It doesn't mean anything.

Fourth, when it comes to membership, nobody is pretending and it's certainly not based on nothing. That you would even say that shows you're pretty new to this debate and not familiar with the facts. So I'll break it down (again) for your ignorant, johnny-come-lately ass...

The FBI had the family at 45 members in 1989.

The Hamilton PD released a chart of 34 members in 1997, though a few were missing.

The FBI had the family at 23 members in 2006. You starting to see a pattern here?

Of those 23 members, only 12 are still living today.

As for those 30 guys Violi mentioned, what family in the 21st century has 2/3 of its membership flying under the radar? Especially a small one like Buffalo? And where did these 20 other guys come from after decades of clear membership decline? And why can't we find a single one? Sorry but the math has never supported your position.

Fifth, you and others have already shown you don't care what the FBI says, despite at least three former Buffalo agents all saying the same thing over the past several years.

What, do you expect the FBI to release some extensive report explaining why they consider the Buffalo LCN defunct?

Who says we cant find a single new member? You? Oh ok. The FBI who has contradicted themselves since 2006? Oh ok. Whos assuming no one was made since 2006? You? Oh ok. Now the Hamilton PD words hold weight but you just said that Canadian reporters dont? Lol oh ok. See the pattern?

And no one is late to this party. I have known way more tHan you on this subject for many years now. Only started posted here as of late. Nickle can vouge for that.

So again, who are you to believed about anything, including your narrative when it comes to your false characterization of evidence?

[Newyorkempire]

"do you expect the FBI to release some extensive report explaining why they consider the Buffalo LCN defunct?"

No, do expect the Mafia to release a list of making ceremonies since 2006 and why they think they are active? Lol Wtf common sense do you rely on??

[Newyorkempire]

Wiseguy.

I seriously want to thank you for fighting for justice on this issue. I will now start to believe you, who distorts evidence in order to dissuade others from having their own set of beliefs, is not from Buffalo, monitors "fan boys" but whos moniker is "Wiseguy" to make sure they arent fans and them pretends like he knows how many actual members there are based on nothing, just because a formal record printed by the FBI has not come out recently. I d ont know where Id be without you. Thank you for all your retrospective. Means a lot to me and others. Hopefully your anger for people who believe in different things than you will subside as you mature and get older.

First, you brought us into this. Neither Pogo or myself commented on Nickle's post until you started running your mouth.

Never did I mention you or Pogo by name

Second, it's not about fighting for "justice." It's keeping things grounded in reality. I can't control what you believe but I can call out bullshit passed off as fact when I see it.

You employ yourself to govern us fan boys. Got it. Seems normal.

Third, I chose the term "Wiseguy" 15 years ago because I had recently reread the book and it was the first thing that came to mind. When this forum started, I had been watching MASH reruns and went by the name "Frank Burns." But soliai asked me to go back to Wiseguy because that's who people know me as, so I did. It doesn't mean anything.

Sure lol. Sounds believable. Not convoluted at all

Fourth, when it comes to membership, nobody is pretending and it's certainly not based on nothing. That you would even say that shows you're pretty new to this debate and not familiar with the facts. So I'll break it down (again) for your ignorant, johnny-come-lately ass...


The FBI had the family at 45 members in 1989.

That they knew of.

The Hamilton PD released a chart of 34 members in 1997, though a few were missing.

You just got done saying Canadian reporters hold no weight but the PD does? Got it. You keep moving the goal post.

The FBI had the family at 23 members in 2006. You starting to see a pattern here?

That the knew of.

Of those 23 members, only 12 are still living today.

That they knew of.

As for those 30 guys Violi mentioned, what family in the 21st century has 2/3 of its membership flying under the radar? Especially a small one like Buffalo? And where did these 20 other guys come from after decades of clear membership decline? And why can't we find a single one? Sorry but the math has never supported your position.

Fifth, you and others have already shown you don't care what the FBI says, despite at least three former Buffalo agents all saying the same thing over the past several years.

What, do you expect the FBI to release some extensive report explaining why they consider the Buffalo LCN defunct?

Who says we cant find a single new member? You? Oh ok. The FBI who has contradicted themselves since 2006? Oh ok. Whos assuming no one was made since 2006? You? Oh ok. Now the Hamilton PD words hold weight but you just said that Canadian reporters dont? Lol oh ok. See the pattern?

And no one is late to this party. I have known way more tHan you on this subject for many years now. Only started posted here as of late. Nickle can vouge for that.

So again, who are you to believed about anything, including your narrative when it comes to your false characterization of evidence?

[Wiseguy]

So the FBI said in 2006 that the Buffalo Mafia was dead only after 8 years removed from Papalia hit with 20 made guys (at least) on the streets. Minus BiFulco. And then the same year the FBI said that Falzone had taken over the Buffalo Mafia. Mine and Nickles point Proven, based on tbe FBIs own contradictory statement. Cue Wise guy to apim this somehow to defend the FBI and that it shows full competency no matter the evident ambiguity. Cant wait for this...

20 guys, most of who were inactive. The FBI has been consistent with what they've said regarding the state of the LCN in Buffalo. Falzone taking over doesn't contradict anything.

As Pogo has pointed out many times (and it's always ignored) -

John Tronolone was named Boss of Cleveland in the 80s despite their being only about a dozen members remaining with half of them in prison and only like 2 (including Tronolone) engaged in criminal activity.

Tommy Marotta was named Boss of Rochester despite there being only about 20 members remaining with about half of them in prison and less than a handful of the remaining engaged in crime.

Paul Villano was named Boss of Denver/Pueblo in the 90s when there were only about a handful of members left with no real criminal activity to speak of.

Billy D'Elia was named Boss of Scranton in the early 90s despite there being about a dozen members remaining with almost all of them being old, inactive or in prison.

Anthony Carolla and Frank Gagliano were named Boss and UnderBoss of New Orleans in 1990ish despite there being only about a dozen-dozen and half members remaining with only like 5 of them (including Carolla and Gagliano) being active.

Back in the late 90s/early 2000s Tommy Gambino was promoted to UnderBoss of the LA family. They also had 2 named Capos (Caci and Caruso). In addition Milano inducted about half a dozen new members during the 90s. Looking at things in retrospect I don't think anyone would say now that LA was a resurging family or even a viable family. More like the last remnants going through the motions. There was no real organization to speak of and very little criminal activity with only a few members involved in very minimal activities.

Falzone, Violi and Buffalo are no different.

Lets not forget to mention the FBI has claimed the Gambinos are dead 15 times? since the 70s. Lets not forget the countless FBI cover ups throughout history. The Commission Case wiped out the Mafia like they claimed right? No. Giuliani who paraded that RICO act around like a pony is now an accused criminal himself. FBI fanboy Wise guy is for sure, which there is nothing wrong with. He chose that life, as his moniker states.

And lets definitely not forget guys like Wiseguy think that the FBI are honest and have no reason to lie and would never possibly be wrong on a Crime Family that since its inception worked hand in hand with the government to skirt laws and play bedfellows.

Now you're just getting desperate.

Who says we cant find a single new member? You? Oh ok. The FBI who has contradicted themselves since 2006? Oh ok. Whos assuming no one was made since 2006? You? Oh ok. Now the Hamilton PD words hold weight but you just said that Canadian reporters dont? Lol oh ok. See the pattern?

Name one other positively identified member besides the 12 currently listed. You can't.

Obviously Violi was made after 2006. But it's extremely unlikely the family started making enough to not only replace the ones that have died since then but go back up to over 30. Especially after years of clear, undeniable decline in membership.

And no one is late to this party. I have known way more tHan you on this subject for many years now. Only started posted here as of late. Nickle can vouge for that.

So again, who are you to believed about anything, including your narrative when it comes to your false characterization of evidence?

What have I falsely characterized? Everything I've said is true. It's you who has mischaracterized the evidence, depending a lot on assumptions and what ifs.

No, do expect the Mafia to release a list of making ceremonies since 2006 and why they think they are active? Lol Wtf common sense do you rely on??

No, but being familiar with LCN trends, I know they're not the one family outside NYC to suddenly come back and make a whole bunch of guys after years of relative inactivity and membership decline.

[Newyorkempire]

Again. I dont believe your narrative and your characterization of the evidence. You cherry pick. Use the FBI as if they are gospel yet contradict themselves and then you try to showboat on their behalf. Apples and Oranges when you reference Scranton, Pueblo, and New Orleans, thats desperate. Buffalo is a different beast altogether. CanadIan members, border towns, Maggadino yielded huge power (as much as NYC bosses). I see you as a FBI fanboy who is not genuine. Now what?

[Newyorkempire]

So Violi was made and he was the only one? Makes zero sense. Sorry man.

[Newyorkempire]

So you and the FBI have evidence there has been no making ceremonies? Asking for a friend.

[Newyorkempire]

Just because there isnt a list doesnt mean that no one is positively identified. The Mafia doesnt send out press releases about members or ceremonies. They dont know just like you dont know. Get it?

[Newyorkempire]

If in 2006 Falzone took over a family with 20 members at minimum thats a viable family. Not a dead family. Your reference and babble about a Scranton boss that flipped, a Colorado family that was barely anything at its peak and a New Orleans family who lost its last identifiable boss is 93 is nonsense in attempt to compare to Buffalo. Give me a break.

You reference RICO when no RICO case ever happened in Buffalo and this is another way how you try to falsely characterize national evidence with regional evidence.

[Newyorkempire]

Says they definitely made Violi after 2006 but did not make enough to replenish ranks....you move the goal post yet again. You say they have had a making ceremony but that it somehow doesnt count? Or that there hasnt been enough men made to constitute a viable family? But maybe enough to be under your replenishment requirement? Wtf lol You keep sidestepping. How the F do you know what they did? Nonsense

[OcSleeper]

Name one other positively identified member besides the 12 currently listed. You can't.

Former RCMP Sgt Stephen Metelsky identified Pat Musitano and Pino Avignone as made members recently in that Mob Museum presentation he did a couple months back. Neither were listed in the charts. Although he said they were made after Papalia's murder so pre-2006.


@Newyorkempire I don't appreciate with what Wiseguy (or Pogo for that matter) have said since I think a lot of times they just come in and shut down any theories people are trying to explore. Imo if you disagree that's fine, just don't tell everyone else they're wrong every chance you get. But now you're just kinda filling the thread with nonsense and rambling on in multiple little posts which could be sent in one when Wiseguy has asked you some very valid questions.

We don't have to go back and forth repeating the same arguments every time new information comes out. It's not helping anyone actually interested in this and it's just burying the actual important posts that people come to read.