Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Newyorkempire]

Lack of RICO doesnt mean anything, especially in Buffalo when there has NEVER been a RICO case there at all. Weve also seen RICO used much less against hierarchy in recent years..i.e. Crea, Farese to name most recent.

Lack of indictments is due to Organized Crime in Buffalo taking a back seat but there has still been arrests of made members and associates the last two decades both in Buffalo and Ontario.

The Mafia has evolved from what it once was all over the world, including Italy and NYC.

The FBI agents statements were made years ago and point to a confusion over status.

The bluer you get in the face doesnt make your narrative become more like gospel.

[NickleCity]

Wiseguy.

I seriously want to thank you for fighting for justice on this issue. I will now start to believe you, who distorts evidence in order to dissuade others from having their own set of beliefs, is not from Buffalo, monitors "fan boys" but whos moniker is "Wiseguy" to make sure they arent fans and them pretends like he knows how many actual members there are based on nothing, just because a formal record printed by the FBI has not come out recently. I d ont know where Id be without you. Thank you for all your retrospective. Means a lot to me and others. Hopefully your anger for people who believe in different things than you will subside as you mature and get older.

I am certainly in agreement with you that the Buffalo crime family is structured and active. I disagree with wise-guy and pogo, but their arguments are reasonable based on their presuppositions. All of us see and understand evidence through the lease of our presuppositions. This is why we need to hear from opposing points of view to make sure we are not being narrow sighted in our assumptions. I appreciate Pogo’s explanation or understanding of the prosecutor’s statements. Pogo’s view is certainly a possibility, but it is conjecture. I personally believe their are other just as reasonable explanations for the prosecutor’s comments that will be revealed as more facts come out-but I could be wrong. I think the DA mentioned IOC in the indictments because he is correcting the record (via FBI Cohen) in preparation for the potential of more arrests being made. He, always, referenced the fact that this is an ongoing investigation and more information may come to light. The recently released (6-15-21) Gerace arraignment transcript evidences this in my opinion. Of course I am reading into his words just as Pogo, this is why it is good to have opposing views. This is why I would like all sides to treat each other respectfully, although I understand frustration often cause us to not be as respectful as we should. Main point: Let’s respect each other. Just my two cents.

[Newyorkempire]

Agreed. He has every right to believe in what he does. We just arent required to believe his narrative. Then be called fan boys by a fan boy. The irony with it all is fascinating.

[NickleCity]

Agreed. He has every right to believe in what he does. We just arent required to believe his narrative. Then be called fan boys by a fan boy. The irony with it all is fascinating.

I understand insinuating I am a mob fanboy has irked me a number of times. It is hard to respond respectfully to I respectful personal attacks.

[Wiseguy]

Wiseguy.

I seriously want to thank you for fighting for justice on this issue. I will now start to believe you, who distorts evidence in order to dissuade others from having their own set of beliefs, is not from Buffalo, monitors "fan boys" but whos moniker is "Wiseguy" to make sure they arent fans and them pretends like he knows how many actual members there are based on nothing, just because a formal record printed by the FBI has not come out recently. I d ont know where Id be without you. Thank you for all your retrospective. Means a lot to me and others. Hopefully your anger for people who believe in different things than you will subside as you mature and get older.

First, you brought us into this. Neither Pogo or myself commented on Nickle's post until you started running your mouth.

Second, it's not about fighting for "justice." It's keeping things grounded in reality. I can't control what you believe but I can call out bullshit passed off as fact when I see it.

Third, I chose the term "Wiseguy" 15 years ago because I had recently reread the book and it was the first thing that came to mind. When this forum started, I had been watching MASH reruns and went by the name "Frank Burns." But soliai asked me to go back to Wiseguy because that's who people know me as, so I did. It doesn't mean anything.

Fourth, when it comes to membership, nobody is pretending and it's certainly not based on nothing. That you would even say that shows you're pretty new to this debate and not familiar with the facts. So I'll break it down (again) for your ignorant, johnny-come-lately ass...

The FBI had the family at 45 members in 1989.

The Hamilton PD released a chart of 34 members in 1997, though a few were missing.

The FBI had the family at 23 members in 2006. You starting to see a pattern here?

Of those 23 members, only 12 are still living today.

As for those 30 guys Violi mentioned, what family in the 21st century has 2/3 of its membership flying under the radar? Especially a small one like Buffalo? And where did these 20 other guys come from after decades of clear membership decline? And why can't we find a single one? Sorry but the math has never supported your position.

Fifth, you and others have already shown you don't care what the FBI says, despite at least three former Buffalo agents all saying the same thing over the past several years.

What, do you expect the FBI to release some extensive report explaining why they consider the Buffalo LCN defunct?

[Wiseguy]

Agreed. He has every right to believe in what he does. We just arent required to believe his narrative. Then be called fan boys by a fan boy. The irony with it all is fascinating.

Quit saying it's my narrative.

In 2006 the FBI said there was nothing left of the Buffalo LCN to organize.

In 2017, the FBI said the Buffalo LCN no longer had a presence in the region and, while some individuals were still around, there was no viable organization.

Last year, the former FBI SAC said there's a difference between an organized criminal syndicate, like the Mafia, and those who are just committing crimes.

The indictments have shown exactly what the feds have described. Individuals, some loosely connected, committing Mafia style crimes.

Anything beyond that, whether it be a resurgent family, a family laying low for the last 20 years, a morphed syndicate organization (thanks for that latest one), are all simply theories people, who aren't satisfied with what the FBI has said, have thrown at the situation.

[Newyorkempire]

Wiseguy, again. Your narrative and analysis of the evidence is irrelevant. Now what? What d ont you undersrand? Are you ok? Lol

[Newyorkempire]

And no actually the FBI said in the late 2000s Falzone took over the Family. So again youre cherry picking varying FBI statements to fulfill your own narrative.

[Newyorkempire]

So in 2006 they said there was nothing left and then found it necessary again in 2017 to say it. Your cornering ypurself. Oh wait I get it now. You re an FBI fan boy. Makes sense now. How much are they paying you to convince us that all the evidence is not really evidence of any Mafia family? Just curious. Also, you realize Fino is a former FBI and CIA employee who just said it exists 2 days ago right? Lets ignore that too.

[Newyorkempire]

The syndicate reference is actually from another journalist, Sergio who describes it as such and whom I would surely believe over an unpublished poster who goes by the moniker Wise guy. Does that make sense to you or still hopelessly confused on why people d ont believe your narrative?

[Newyorkempire]

Wiseguy, you realize there has never been a RICO case in Buffalo right? Just curious why you use that as evidence. Bizarre.

[NickleCity]

So in 2006 they said there was nothing left and then found it necessary again in 2017 to say it. Your cornering ypurself. Oh wait I get it now. You re an FBI fan boy. Makes sense now. How much are they paying you to convince us that all the evidence is not really evidence of any Mafia family? Just curious. Also, you realize Fino is a former FBI and CIA employee who just said it exists 2 days ago right? Lets ignore that too.

Wiseguy gets that from a 2006 Niagara Gazette article that states:

Today, despite rumors that what was once the Magaddino family still operates here, federal organized crime investigators say those tales just aren’t true. They say small numbers of loosely associated individuals may still get together to commit what once were Mafia style crimes, but it’s not like the old days.

So it is reasonable to think the FBI indicated this. However, I will note the article is a little vague in this reference. It could be the author wanted to use a different term for variety, or maybe it wasn’t an official position because their were differences of opinion in the department as to the position and viability of the family.

I will say that is conjecture to say Cohen’s 2017 statement rings true today as the department’s official position. To use a former FBI director to say this contradicts his position that one should use Fino as reliable source because he has been separated from the family for some times as the former director has been outside the FBI for a number of years. Additionally, we have the personal testimony of Calibrianwatch that indicates the FBI thinks otherwise. Although I understand why Pogo and Wiseguy have a hard time accepting personal testimony as it cannot be verified for them—although it may be verified to those who have this personal knowledge by living in the area (you and I) or have professional relationships with such as Calibrianwatch and the FBI.

[Newyorkempire]

Nickle,

Do you have the article where FBI indicates Falzone took over?

[Wiseguy]

Wiseguy, again. Your narrative and analysis of the evidence is irrelevant. Now what? What d ont you undersrand? Are you ok? Lol

I tell you what the FBI has said and you just stick your fingers in your ears and chant "La la la la la la!" And you wonder why I consider you a fanboy.

And no actually the FBI said in the late 2000s Falzone took over the Family. So again youre cherry picking varying FBI statements to fulfill your own narrative.

And it's already been pointed out many times before, there are several families who have made or promoted guys when there was no real functioning organization left.

[Newyorkempire]

Yep. You are definitely a FBI fanboy lol. Now you are defining that Falzone taking over in the 2000s was just a ceremonial position when there was over 20 members or more of a family left at that time (assuming thats even an accurate tally and there wasnt making ceremonies the FBI didnt know about) And when a few years prior in 97/98 Pat Musitano and Jonny Catz are caught on wire showing deference to each other about the Papalia murder both deferring to Todaro. You really arent getting the big picture are you? How do you or the FBI know when there was making ceremonies? How do you know anything of what you are saying other than regurgitating and framing evidence on how you want to?

Theres guys around now you wouldnt even know how the fuck Nick le and I came up with their names because you dont know anything other but what you read in misconstrued, fragmented, disheveled and contradictory FBI statements. Personally I think youre a joke and need to get off your high horse. Now what? Your turn. Same shit different day with guys like you.