Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Discuss all mafia families in the U.S., Canada, Italy, and everywhere else in the world.

Moderator: Capos

Post Reply
johnny_scootch
Full Patched
Posts: 3052
Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 9:48 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by johnny_scootch »

Pogo The Clown wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:05 am
So really it comes down to what you want to believe. The FBI or Humphrey.


Pogo

No it doesn't come down to that at all. 'That guy Humphreys' a respected journalist and author who is not the no name chump you'd like him to be is quoting court documents and wiretaps! He's not making up dialogue. Your boy Capeci even thinks it has enough validity to quote the Humphreys article in his own column. I doubt he would do that if there was even an inkling it might be 'dubious'.

What it really comes down to is who you want to believe The FBI or Dom Violi the underboss of the family.
Moscone65
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:44 pm

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Moscone65 »

These aren't Philly wiseguys here or low level New York guys, the GTA mobsters are alot more serious and low key, sure there's an indictment against Merlino or some other guys like that, because they are loud as shit. These guys in Ontario and possibly Buffalo, (who would be alot like their Canadian counterparts) are similar in the way they operate to the Genovese, the outfit, or the higher tier Gambinos. It ain't that easy for the FBI to get dirt on them, the FBI probably knows very little of the big picture. I think Violin may be exaggerating about some things, but why would he blatantly lie to another made guy (unaware of him being an informant) that he was the underboss of the Buffalo family? If the Morena guy were to find out from someone else that he wasn't the underboss, it would just make Violi look bad and possibly get into trouble if Morena started telling other guys what Violin was saying. Can anybody name the heirarchy of the Caruana Cuntrera family, or perhaps of the Coluccio organization other than maybe the boss? These are certainly active groups in Canada. Why is it so hard to believe that we cant find out who the Buffalo guys all are?
Moscone65
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:44 pm

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Moscone65 »

*Violi
User avatar
Wiseguy
Filthy Few
Posts: 9584
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:12 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Wiseguy »

Moscone65 wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:14 pm These aren't Philly wiseguys here or low level New York guys, the GTA mobsters are alot more serious and low key, sure there's an indictment against Merlino or some other guys like that, because they are loud as shit. These guys in Ontario and possibly Buffalo, (who would be alot like their Canadian counterparts) are similar in the way they operate to the Genovese, the outfit, or the higher tier Gambinos. It ain't that easy for the FBI to get dirt on them, the FBI probably knows very little of the big picture. I think Violin may be exaggerating about some things, but why would he blatantly lie to another made guy (unaware of him being an informant) that he was the underboss of the Buffalo family? If the Morena guy were to find out from someone else that he wasn't the underboss, it would just make Violi look bad and possibly get into trouble if Morena started telling other guys what Violin was saying. Can anybody name the heirarchy of the Caruana Cuntrera family, or perhaps of the Coluccio organization other than maybe the boss? These are certainly active groups in Canada. Why is it so hard to believe that we cant find out who the Buffalo guys all are?
The relative lack of activity explained away by the claim that they're more low key and elusive has been one of the favorite excuses by proponents of Detroit as well.
All roads lead to New York.
User avatar
NickyEyes1
Straightened out
Posts: 271
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 8:26 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by NickyEyes1 »

You don't see Capeci reference the many bullshit articles that have came out in the past though. Capeci mentioning the article means it has to hold some merit right?
User avatar
Pogo The Clown
Men Of Mayhem
Posts: 14146
Joined: Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:02 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Pogo The Clown »

johnny_scootch wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:37 pm No it doesn't come down to that at all. 'That guy Humphreys' a respected journalist and author who is not the no name chump you'd like him to be is quoting court documents and wiretaps! He's not making up dialogue. Your boy Capeci even thinks it has enough validity to quote the Humphreys article in his own column. I doubt he would do that if there was even an inkling it might be 'dubious'.

What it really comes down to is who you want to believe The FBI or Dom Violi the underboss of the family.

Well considering that your side is about 0-12 on these sorts of debates I'll go with what the Feds say. Dollars to donuts this is the last we hear about Buffalo in terms of indictments of any significance and in 5-10 years when all we have heard about the Buffalo LCN is when one of the remaining dinosaurs drops dead we will again reach the conclusion that all this "Buffalo resurgence" talk was all hype and bullshit like we have on everything else. History is on my side.


Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
User avatar
NickleCity
Full Patched
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by NickleCity »

In a 2012 letter to the Buffalo News Ron Fino wrote:
“Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.”
He also said he didn’t believe the Todaro had retired and insisted that Falzone was acting the front boss.

Given the recent news could Joe have been the boss this whole time?

Also, on numerous occasions Fino has insisted that the federal trusteeship of LIINA Local 210 in Buffalo never rid the union of its mob influence. As recently as August, Fino when asked about Louis P. Ciminelli and the Buffalo Billion Scandel where he was found guilty of bribery and bid rigging Ron said,
“First of all the Buffalo Family is alive and 210 is run by highly connected associates. I knew Frank, Lou, and the Ciminelli family. Yes, Frank was connected and if you look at their various companies, they were allowed to use alter ego companies without fear of union retaliation.”
It seems Fino was right about Buffalo, maybe even Todaro. Could he be right about 210 and if Todaro/Buffalo have had their hand in 210 did they play a roll in Buffalo Billion?

Remember, Lou is named a early 90’s Rico with other Buffalo mob associates and soldiers.
User avatar
Wiseguy
Filthy Few
Posts: 9584
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:12 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Wiseguy »

NickleCity wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:02 pm In a 2012 letter to the Buffalo News Ron Fino wrote:

“Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.”
Like I just pointed out above, this is the same "They're just quieter and smarter" argument we've seen for years about Detroit. Do the Detroit and Buffalo mob guys know something that the other families don't?
Also, on numerous occasions Fino has insisted that the federal trusteeship of LIINA Local 210 in Buffalo never rid the union of its mob influence. As recently as August, Fino when asked about Louis P. Ciminelli and the Buffalo Billion Scandel where he was found guilty of bribery and bid rigging Ron said,
Mmm hmm. Other than murders, nothing gets the the feds going after the LCN faster than control of unions and labor racketeering. Not even drugs. LIUNA Local 210 was given a clean bill of health in 2006 - 10 years after being put under oversight. If the mob was still in control over a decade after that, the feds would be all over it. In fact, considering the control of the local was the primary reason for the family's status all the way up to the 1990s, if they were still running the shop the feds likely wouldn't be saying the mob is basically defunct in Western New York.
“First of all the Buffalo Family is alive and 210 is run by highly connected associates. I knew Frank, Lou, and the Ciminelli family. Yes, Frank was connected and if you look at their various companies, they were allowed to use alter ego companies without fear of union retaliation.”
Run by highly connected associates huh? Not Todaro, Violi, and other made guys?
It seems Fino was right about Buffalo, maybe even Todaro. Could he be right about 210 and if Todaro/Buffalo have had their hand in 210 did they play a roll in Buffalo Billion?
Again, saying "It seems Dino was right" is premature and misleading.
All roads lead to New York.
Moscone65
Sergeant Of Arms
Posts: 867
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 9:44 pm

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Moscone65 »

Wiseguy wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:26 pm
Moscone65 wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:14 pm These aren't Philly wiseguys here or low level New York guys, the GTA mobsters are alot more serious and low key, sure there's an indictment against Merlino or some other guys like that, because they are loud as shit. These guys in Ontario and possibly Buffalo, (who would be alot like their Canadian counterparts) are similar in the way they operate to the Genovese, the outfit, or the higher tier Gambinos. It ain't that easy for the FBI to get dirt on them, the FBI probably knows very little of the big picture. I think Violin may be exaggerating about some things, but why would he blatantly lie to another made guy (unaware of him being an informant) that he was the underboss of the Buffalo family? If the Morena guy were to find out from someone else that he wasn't the underboss, it would just make Violi look bad and possibly get into trouble if Morena started telling other guys what Violin was saying. Can anybody name the heirarchy of the Caruana Cuntrera family, or perhaps of the Coluccio organization other than maybe the boss? These are certainly active groups in Canada. Why is it so hard to believe that we cant find out who the Buffalo guys all are?
The relative lack of activity explained away by the claim that they're more low key and elusive has been one of the favorite excuses by proponents of Detroit as well.
I get that, but the question still stands. All we hear from families such as the Caruana Cuntreras, or any of the ndrangheta clans in the GTA besides Commisso, is that they exist, from news articles. How is this much different? We have reputable people and wiretaps suggesting that Buffalo is still around. Also in Detroit's case, I think they have enough, more pressing issues in that city to deal with than to be spending millions of dollars to investigate semi legitimate business men/mobsters. In new York they still have plenty of investigations most likely due to the fact that there's hundreds of made guys there. Even so, the number of FBI agents in new York has decreased alot. If they have a mediocre amount of agents for the mob in new York, I wonder how small the number would be for a city like Buffalo or Detroit, which have maybe a few dozen made guys at most. As for murders, even in an active city like new York, barring the last couple of rare murders this year, there aren't many. So for a small family it's likely to be even less. To me it's just logic. Philly is the only exception, but the reason being is because they are the most noisy and least organized of the lcn families and it's been like that ever since Bruno got killed.
User avatar
Wiseguy
Filthy Few
Posts: 9584
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2014 11:12 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Wiseguy »

johnny_scootch wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:37 pmNo it doesn't come down to that at all. 'That guy Humphreys' a respected journalist and author who is not the no name chump you'd like him to be is quoting court documents and wiretaps! He's not making up dialogue. Your boy Capeci even thinks it has enough validity to quote the Humphreys article in his own column. I doubt he would do that if there was even an inkling it might be 'dubious'.

What it really comes down to is who you want to believe The FBI or Dom Violi the underboss of the family.
I don't think Pogo (or myself for that matter) thinks they're making up dialogue. Just that the image of the Buffalo family many of you have walked away with after the news this week isn't reality. And the future going forward will bear that out just as the last 20 years have.
Moscone65 wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:27 pmI get that, but the question still stands. All we hear from families such as the Caruana Cuntreras, or any of the ndrangheta clans in the GTA besides Commisso, is that they exist, from news articles. How is this much different? We have reputable people and wiretaps suggesting that Buffalo is still around. Also in Detroit's case, I think they have enough, more pressing issues in that city to deal with than to be spending millions of dollars to investigate semi legitimate business men/mobsters. In new York they still have plenty of investigations most likely due to the fact that there's hundreds of made guys there. Even so, the number of FBI agents in new York has decreased alot. If they have a mediocre amount of agents for the mob in new York, I wonder how small the number would be for a city like Buffalo or Detroit, which have maybe a few dozen made guys at most. As for murders, even in an active city like new York, barring the last couple of rare murders this year, there aren't many. So for a small family it's likely to be even less. To me it's just logic. Philly is the only exception, but the reason being is because they are the most noisy and least organized of the lcn families and it's been like that ever since Bruno got killed.
Funny that you hit on another oft-used talking point used for Detroit, i.e. that law enforcement has higher priorities than going after the local mob. That excuse may work in the short term but less so as more time goes by. Furthermore, even with resources being moved to other areas outside of organized crime, within that sphere LCN families are still the second highest priority for the Justice Department behind the groups it puts on its Top International Criminal Organization Target list. If Buffalo was as active as many here now believe after this week, we would have seen more cases over the past 20 years. We wouldn't have the feds saying the family is basically defunct in Western New York.

And as far as the Canadian groups go, I think it's a couple things. First, it's been a case of Candian law enforcement playing catch up. They're doing better than they were but they don't have the same laws to go after the mob like U.S. authorities do. Second, I've always thought the Canadian press tends to overhype the OC groups there. It's like they take some weird pride in their mafiosi.
All roads lead to New York.
User avatar
Stroccos
Full Patched
Posts: 3548
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:23 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Stroccos »

has there been in federal cases in buffalo area in the last ten years, made guys ? even associates ?
"if he's such A sports wizard , whys he tending bar ?" Nicky Scarfo
User avatar
gohnjotti
Full Patched
Posts: 3331
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by gohnjotti »

Stroccos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:29 pm has there been in federal cases in buffalo area in the last ten years, made guys ? even associates ?
The last bust of a made member occurred some 15 years ago. I think Bifulco, but don’t quote me on that.
I don't know dick about dick.

http://thecolombomafia.com
User avatar
Stroccos
Full Patched
Posts: 3548
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:23 am

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by Stroccos »

gohnjotti wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 pm
Stroccos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:29 pm has there been in federal cases in buffalo area in the last ten years, made guys ? even associates ?
The last bust of a made member occurred some 15 years ago. I think Bifulco, but don’t quote me on that.
I was just curious maybe we can pull some documents if there federal cases related to the mob

Cool article
https://buffalonews.com/2017/03/20/cold ... d-murders/
"if he's such A sports wizard , whys he tending bar ?" Nicky Scarfo
User avatar
NickleCity
Full Patched
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by NickleCity »

Stroccos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:45 pm
gohnjotti wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 pm
Stroccos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:29 pm has there been in federal cases in buffalo area in the last ten years, made guys ? even associates ?
The last bust of a made member occurred some 15 years ago. I think Bifulco, but don’t quote me on that.
I was just curious maybe we can pull some documents if there federal cases related to the mob
Buffalo guys Joe Bravo and Paul Citelli were involved in a Vegas HOA scam in the early 2010’s. They did time for traffickin cocaine for Todaro’s starting around ‘93. In the HOA investigation it came out that Bravo and his mob connected lawyer owned and managed a airport in Baja Sur Mexico. With drug conviction never should have been able to be involved with airports even in Mexico. Had relationship with cartels and corrupt Governor of Baja ...

Here are the relevant articles:
Target of Las Vegas HOA investigation detailed scheme, bribes in secret documents

By JEFF GERMAN © 2014 LAS VEGAS REVIEW-JOURNAL
October 30, 2014 - 8:31 pm

...Investigators in 2011 also asked Benzer about possible mob involvement in the HOA takeover scheme.

In one interview, Benzer said he was friends with Joseph A. Bravo, a Las Vegas ticket broker who received an 87-month federal prison term in 1993 for his role in a cocaine trafficking ring with alleged ties to the Buffalo mob.

Benzer said he met Bravo through lawyer John V. Spilotro, the nephew of Anthony “The Ant” Spilotro, the Chicago mob’s infamous overseer of street rackets in Las Vegas until his murder in 1986.

Bravo’s nephew, real estate agent Anthony R. Wilson, pleaded guilty in the HOA investigation. So did limousine driver Paul Citelli, who was convicted with Bravo in the 1993 cocaine case.

Benzer told investigators that he didn’t believe Bravo had mob ties, but admitted that Bravo had loaned him as much as $20,000 and turned him on to hard money lenders as the scheme progressed.

Before sitting down with Benzer, Justice Department lawyers agreed not to use anything he said against him at trial if the negotiations fell through. But they were free to corroborate the wealth of information they got from Benzer with other witnesses....
About the airport and Joe Bravo:
From Las Vegas Review Journal
Familiar faces show up in HOA probe

June 10, 2012 - 12:59 am


His friends call Joe Bravo an honorable guy and a gifted businessman who has put the mistakes of his past far behind him.

It’s just a coincidence, they say, that he knows some of the defendants and potential targets in the ongoing investigation of corruption inside the local homeowners associations and construction defect racket.

Who is Joe Bravo?

It’s a question some members of local law enforcement have asked for years. For the record, Joseph Angelo Bravo is a convicted drug trafficker who was sentenced to 87 months in 1993 for his role in a cocaine importing ring with ties to the Buffalo mob.

The Niagara Falls-to-Las Vegas distribution network was accused of distributing 400 kilos of cocaine between 1986 and 1990. A lengthy investigation compiled 2,500 wiretap conversations, recordings whose legality was vigorously but unsuccessfully challenged by defense lawyers Oscar Goodman and David Chesnoff. The 16 defendants pleaded guilty before trial.

I was reminded of that old case May 31 when Paul Citelli entered U.S. District Judge James Mahan’s courtroom and took his place among the 14 latest defendants to plead guilty in the HOA scandal. Citelli, a Southern Nevada limousine driver, was one of Bravo’s partners in the cocaine distribution ring back in the years authorities believed the Buffalo mob was the dominant La Cosa Nostra family on the streets of Las Vegas.


At the time of Citelli’s 1993 sentencing, he apologized to U.S. District Judge Lloyd George for his transgression and received a break. Faced with a potential 27-year prison term, Citelli caught only seven.

Fast-forward 19 years to Mahan’s court: With defense attorney David Brown at his side, Citelli pleaded guilty to a single count of conspiracy to commit wire and mail fraud and admitted his role in the HOA corruption scheme.

After the hearing, Citelli declined an interview request.

Las Vegas real estate agent Anthony Roy Wilson also pleaded guilty to a charge of conspiracy to commit wire and mail fraud. He’s Bravo’s nephew.

While other targets in the HOA investigation generated headlines, Wilson blended into the crowd of role players in Mahan’s courtroom. His eventual sentence figures to be light, but Wilson was an integral part of the conspiracy.

In his plea agreement, Wilson admitted his job was to find and fill condominiums with participants in the conspiracy with the goal of seeing them placed on HOA boards. He did his job well, locating 17 units for purchase by straw buyers.

Wilson helped those phony buyers with equally fraudulent mortgage applications. He handled the transactions and, according to the plea agreement, generated $117,500 in commissions.

Even if Wilson is a big admirer of his Uncle Joe, Bravo’s friends say that link is just another coincidence.
Business partner Chesnoff defends Bravo as the consummate stand-up guy.

“I have been a lawyer for 32 years, and I have never seen anyone who so thoroughly turned his life around and has been as hard working and honorable with all those people that he has worked with than Joe Bravo,” Chesnoff says.

Consider former Las Vegas Mayor Goodman another of Bravo’s admirers.

“He did his time, and he did it like a man,” Goodman says. “He made no excuses, had no bravado, and I understand, after he came out, that he’s a hard worker. People who know him love him. His word is his bond. I don’t know anybody who says a bad word about him, even the feds. He paid his debt. I think Las Vegas is a place of second chances, so I have no problem vouching for him in that respect.”

And attorney Paul Hejmanowski offers, “I’ve had the privilege of working with him for several years. I consider him a personal friend. I’ve never known him to fail to keep his word in every instance.”

Defense attorneys Chesnoff and Marty Keach are listed in real estate records as partners in land deals with Bravo both locally and in Mexico. Down in Baja California Sur, their friend Joe’s name and criminal history have splashed in the press in association with their Punta Arena de la Ventana resort and the management of a private airport outside La Paz.

What’s a convicted drug trafficker doing managing a Mexican airport?

That’s a question skeptical reporters asked in 2010.

They’ve also wondered about Bravo’s cordial relationship with then-Baja Sur Gov. Narciso Agundez Montano.

I might ask for Agundez to vouch for Bravo’s character, but the former governor was just arrested in late May on public corruption charges.

Back in Las Vegas, the HOA/construction defect investigation grinds on with prosecutors from the Department of Justice’s Fraud Section strongly hinting in court recently that the case remains a target-rich environment.

Bravo’s friends and business partners vouch for his rehabilitated character, but from here to Mexico it’s hard for him to shake his reputation.

Do you suppose he knows more about the structure of the HOA and construction defect conspiracy than meets the eye?

Say it ain’t so, Joe.

John L. Smith’s column appears Sunday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday. Email him at Smith@reviewjournal.com or call 702-383-0295. He also blogs at lvrj.com/blogs/smith. Follow him on Twitter @jlnevadasmith.
If I remember right the Violi's did some time for trafficking cocaine shortly after Bravo was arrested. Violi was arrested in operation One Call in 1995, I think.

Some questions:

Did Dominic Violi have access to Todaro's drug route and the players in Mexico?

Did he use these connections in the recent murders? I.e Rainieri

I don't know. These may all be coincidences, but if Buffalo is more powerful and active than previously thought, could they have a crew in Vegas? Do they still have ties to Cartels in Mexico? I think we shoul look into the possibility there is a connection in all of this.

May be nothing but you never know, till you look.
User avatar
gohnjotti
Full Patched
Posts: 3331
Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:08 pm
Contact:

Re: Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

Post by gohnjotti »

Stroccos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:45 pm
gohnjotti wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:42 pm
Stroccos wrote: Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:29 pm has there been in federal cases in buffalo area in the last ten years, made guys ? even associates ?
The last bust of a made member occurred some 15 years ago. I think Bifulco, but don’t quote me on that.
I was just curious maybe we can pull some documents if there federal cases related to the mob
Nothing significant (other than OTremens) since the 1990s. Bifulco was charged with torching a car for the insurance money and sentenced to 10 years in 2003. That was the last Todaro family bust in the Buffalo region
I don't know dick about dick.

http://thecolombomafia.com
Post Reply