Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Angelo Santino]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

It's in the Ndrangheta article Antimafia posted in this very thread....


The investigations of the Project Bene Comune made it possible to ascertain that he was the “Mastro di Giornata” ("Master of the Day"), an important position within a Locale which can only be granted to high-ranking members (the “Mastro di Giornata” deals with conveying, as a spokesperson, the orders and wills of the Capo Locale to his subordinates and, in the opposite direction, the news that the subordinates bring to the top of the Locale; thus a sort of filter to ensure distance, in case of ascertainment of responsibilities in court, between the boss and the actions of his subordinates).

Sounds like more of a messenger than an Underboss. I was going to say that but held back because the modern 'Ndrangheta isn't my area. But it sounds like its function hasn't changed which is interesting and enlightening. Thanks.

These same ranks were outlined for the first time to me when the Piscopisani clan was arrested. They broke down the entire locale, rank by rank, the first locale I've ever seen mapped out like that. I wanted to try to do the same for Toronto, this article antimafia posted is the closest I've seen anyone come.....

Where can I read it?

[CabriniGreen]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

It's in the Ndrangheta article Antimafia posted in this very thread....


The investigations of the Project Bene Comune made it possible to ascertain that he was the “Mastro di Giornata” ("Master of the Day"), an important position within a Locale which can only be granted to high-ranking members (the “Mastro di Giornata” deals with conveying, as a spokesperson, the orders and wills of the Capo Locale to his subordinates and, in the opposite direction, the news that the subordinates bring to the top of the Locale; thus a sort of filter to ensure distance, in case of ascertainment of responsibilities in court, between the boss and the actions of his subordinates).

Sounds like more of a messenger than an Underboss. I was going to say that but held back because the modern 'Ndrangheta isn't my area. But it sounds like its function hasn't changed which is interesting and enlightening. Thanks.

These same ranks were outlined for the first time to me when the Piscopisani clan was arrested. They broke down the entire locale, rank by rank, the first locale I've ever seen mapped out like that. I wanted to try to do the same for Toronto, this article antimafia posted is the closest I've seen anyone come.....

Where can I read it?

I'll dig up the article, I might have even made a thread.... Couldn't get any interest in it......

[CabriniGreen]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

It's in the Ndrangheta article Antimafia posted in this very thread....


The investigations of the Project Bene Comune made it possible to ascertain that he was the “Mastro di Giornata” ("Master of the Day"), an important position within a Locale which can only be granted to high-ranking members (the “Mastro di Giornata” deals with conveying, as a spokesperson, the orders and wills of the Capo Locale to his subordinates and, in the opposite direction, the news that the subordinates bring to the top of the Locale; thus a sort of filter to ensure distance, in case of ascertainment of responsibilities in court, between the boss and the actions of his subordinates).

Also, as far as Ndrangheta and it's own autonomy...


.Umile Arturi then confirmed the deposition of the collaborator Franco Pino in the account of the meeting in 1992, in a village of Nicotera Marina, to examine the proposal of the Corleonesi of Totò Riina and of the Catania of Santapaola to join the massacre strategy after the attack in via D'Amelio in Palermo cost the lives of judge Paolo Borsellino and the men of the escort. Compared to Franco Pino's deposition, however, Umile Arturi indicated among the participants in the meeting three names that had not been mentioned by the first collaboratorwho had indeed underlined its absence: Pino Piromalli from Gioia Tauro, Peppe Pesce from Rosarno and Giuseppe Farao from Cirò. Franco Pino had instead spoken of the presence of Nino Pesce and Silvio Farao accompanied by Cataldo Marincola (the latter name also made by Umile Arturi). Among the others - according to the two collaborators - were present at the meeting, the "landlord" Luigi Mancuso of Limbadi and Franco Coco Trova of Marcedusa, resident in Lombardy and related to the De Stefano family of Reggio Calabria. “Luigi Mancuso - said Arturi - explained the Sicilians' proposal but clearly said he was against itbecause if we had adhered to the Sicilian massacre strategy we would have transferred the mess that happened to Sicily also in Calabria and this was not convenient for the 'Ndrangheta , in addition to the fact that Mancuso supported the opposition to the killing of innocent people , including magistrates ".


There are a few on here that read about ALL the mafias....

And it wasnt JUST the Calabrians who thought all that was nonsense....


“The Nuvolettas are the only family outside Sicily that sits in the cupola, the high command of Cosa Nostra. Not simply allies or affiliates, they are one of the most powerful groups in the bosom of the Mafia, with structural ties to the Corleones. So powerful—according to pentito Giovanni Brusca—that when in the late 1990s the Sicilians decided to plant bombs all over Italy, they asked the Marano clan for advice and cooperation. The Nuvolettas thought the idea was crazy, a strategy that had more to do with political favors than military results. They refused to participate in the attacks or provide logistical support, a refusal expressed without any hint of reprisal. Totò Riina personally implored the boss Angelo Nuvoletta to corrupt the judges in his first mass trial, but here too the Marano clan refused to help the military wing of the Corleone family. During the feuds within La Nuova Famiglia, after their victory over Cutolo, the Nuvolettas sent for Giovanni Brusca, the boss of San Giovanni Jato and the murderer of Judge Giovanni Falcone.* They wanted Brusca to eliminate five people in Campania and dissolve two of them in acid

[CabriniGreen]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

It's in the Ndrangheta article Antimafia posted in this very thread....


The investigations of the Project Bene Comune made it possible to ascertain that he was the “Mastro di Giornata” ("Master of the Day"), an important position within a Locale which can only be granted to high-ranking members (the “Mastro di Giornata” deals with conveying, as a spokesperson, the orders and wills of the Capo Locale to his subordinates and, in the opposite direction, the news that the subordinates bring to the top of the Locale; thus a sort of filter to ensure distance, in case of ascertainment of responsibilities in court, between the boss and the actions of his subordinates).

Sounds like more of a messenger than an Underboss. I was going to say that but held back because the modern 'Ndrangheta isn't my area. But it sounds like its function hasn't changed which is interesting and enlightening. Thanks.

These same ranks were outlined for the first time to me when the Piscopisani clan was arrested. They broke down the entire locale, rank by rank, the first locale I've ever seen mapped out like that. I wanted to try to do the same for Toronto, this article antimafia posted is the closest I've seen anyone come.....

Where can I read it?

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4741&p=112072&hili ... ni#p112072

[CabriniGreen]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

It's in the Ndrangheta article Antimafia posted in this very thread....


The investigations of the Project Bene Comune made it possible to ascertain that he was the “Mastro di Giornata” ("Master of the Day"), an important position within a Locale which can only be granted to high-ranking members (the “Mastro di Giornata” deals with conveying, as a spokesperson, the orders and wills of the Capo Locale to his subordinates and, in the opposite direction, the news that the subordinates bring to the top of the Locale; thus a sort of filter to ensure distance, in case of ascertainment of responsibilities in court, between the boss and the actions of his subordinates).

Sounds like more of a messenger than an Underboss. I was going to say that but held back because the modern 'Ndrangheta isn't my area. But it sounds like its function hasn't changed which is interesting and enlightening. Thanks.

These same ranks were outlined for the first time to me when the Piscopisani clan was arrested. They broke down the entire locale, rank by rank, the first locale I've ever seen mapped out like that. I wanted to try to do the same for Toronto, this article antimafia posted is the closest I've seen anyone come.....

Where can I read it?

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4741&p=112072&hili ... ni#p112072

Seriously, NO ONE gave a fuck about ANY of this....

[antimafia]

^^^^
I’m sorry I didn’t respond in that other thread — I just knew I wasn’t up to the task.

I have a good sense of the history, composition, leadership, and function of la camera di controllo (the “board of control”) for the Toronto-area Siderno Group. I know that Albert Anastasia and Frank Costello are the putative inventors of this structure, which was supposedly created to minimize conflicts between 1) the Canadian ‘ndrangheta and the American LCN, and 2) the Calabrian clans themselves. Letizia Paoli has previously cited a Canadian report from the late 1980s that indicates the RCMP became aware of the existence of the board in 1968 but that the structure was created in 1962.

I’m also aware of the few occasions over the decades when the size of this group’s inducted high-ranking members has been mentioned in articles.

In 2010, I considered the seven leaders who sat on la camera di controllo — they were named in vol. 3 of the Operazione Il Crimine arrest warrants — to be in charge of their respective ’ndrina; that the seven ‘ndrine constituted just one locale. I still think of it as one locale.

There are definitional problems with terms like la camera di controllo, locale, and il Crimine. They have had different meanings at different times and in different countries. Francesco Barillaro (pen name: Saverio Montalto) wrote of “il Crimine” in his 1945 novel, which was published only in the 1970s. Which means the term has been used by ‘ndranghetisti themselves before 1945.

The English-language books that have somewhat delved into the ranks of the Siderno Group in Canada are Mob rule, Mafia assassin, and Deadly silence, with these last two containing glossaries that list ranks and what they mean.

[calabrianwatch]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

It's in the Ndrangheta article Antimafia posted in this very thread....


The investigations of the Project Bene Comune made it possible to ascertain that he was the “Mastro di Giornata” ("Master of the Day"), an important position within a Locale which can only be granted to high-ranking members (the “Mastro di Giornata” deals with conveying, as a spokesperson, the orders and wills of the Capo Locale to his subordinates and, in the opposite direction, the news that the subordinates bring to the top of the Locale; thus a sort of filter to ensure distance, in case of ascertainment of responsibilities in court, between the boss and the actions of his subordinates).

Also, as far as Ndrangheta and it's own autonomy...


.Umile Arturi then confirmed the deposition of the collaborator Franco Pino in the account of the meeting in 1992, in a village of Nicotera Marina, to examine the proposal of the Corleonesi of Totò Riina and of the Catania of Santapaola to join the massacre strategy after the attack in via D'Amelio in Palermo cost the lives of judge Paolo Borsellino and the men of the escort. Compared to Franco Pino's deposition, however, Umile Arturi indicated among the participants in the meeting three names that had not been mentioned by the first collaboratorwho had indeed underlined its absence: Pino Piromalli from Gioia Tauro, Peppe Pesce from Rosarno and Giuseppe Farao from Cirò. Franco Pino had instead spoken of the presence of Nino Pesce and Silvio Farao accompanied by Cataldo Marincola (the latter name also made by Umile Arturi). Among the others - according to the two collaborators - were present at the meeting, the "landlord" Luigi Mancuso of Limbadi and Franco Coco Trova of Marcedusa, resident in Lombardy and related to the De Stefano family of Reggio Calabria. “Luigi Mancuso - said Arturi - explained the Sicilians' proposal but clearly said he was against itbecause if we had adhered to the Sicilian massacre strategy we would have transferred the mess that happened to Sicily also in Calabria and this was not convenient for the 'Ndrangheta , in addition to the fact that Mancuso supported the opposition to the killing of innocent people , including magistrates ".


There are a few on here that read about ALL the mafias....

I am very familiar with all this - what you are describing is the 'ndrangheta stragista operation and trial - we are in late 1980s and early 1990s and things have changed a little. What you just posted is proof of three things 1) that all provinces of Calabria did talk to one another and b) the Ndrangheta coordination was beyond Calabria at the time already in Lombardia and 3) that in early 1990s ndrangheta and Cosa Nostra were considering each other at the same levels already, but because of different strategies the latter attracted more attention than the former.

[calabrianwatch]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

The Mastro di Giornata role depends on each locale - it's not always the same. Indeed it's difficult to compare two things which are very different. You can call the Calabrian mafia "mafia" because of italian law and the use they do of the so called mafia method, but the 2 organisations are of course very different. There is no real correspondence for underboss in the 'ndrangheta - what I meant to say was the idea of an executive of the Capo Locale - but again, the roles are different because the 'ndrangheta 'society' rankings are different.

[calabrianwatch]

^^^^
I’m sorry I didn’t respond in that other thread — I just knew I wasn’t up to the task.

I have a good sense of the history, composition, leadership, and function of la camera di controllo (the “board of control”) for the Toronto-area Siderno Group. I know that Albert Anastasia and Frank Costello are the putative inventors of this structure, which was supposedly created to minimize conflicts between 1) the Canadian ‘ndrangheta and the American LCN, and 2) the Calabrian clans themselves. Letizia Paoli has previously cited a Canadian report from the late 1980s that indicates the RCMP became aware of the existence of the board in 1968 but that the structure was created in 1962.

I’m also aware of the few occasions over the decades when the size of this group’s inducted high-ranking members has been mentioned in articles.

In 2010, I considered the seven leaders who sat on la camera di controllo — they were named in vol. 3 of the Operazione Il Crimine arrest warrants — to be in charge of their respective ’ndrina; that the seven ‘ndrine constituted just one locale. I still think of it as one locale.

There are definitional problems with terms like la camera di controllo, locale, and il Crimine. They have had different meanings at different times and in different countries. Francesco Barillaro (pen name: Saverio Montalto) wrote of “il Crimine” in his 1945 novel, which was published only in the 1970s. Which means the term has been used by ‘ndranghetisti themselves before 1945.

The English-language books that have somewhat delved into the ranks of the Siderno Group in Canada are Mob rule, Mafia assassin, and Deadly silence, with these last two containing glossaries that list ranks and what they mean.

Indeed. The camera di controllo was somewhere in the middle of a commission and a crimine, in terms of function, forget the name. VERY DIFFERENT from the current crimine of Siderno in Canada for example.

[calabrianwatch]

I'm calm... but I have to defend Wiseguy here, all he said was "I'm not sure I agree" which speaks to his dedication to the truth because he could have just not posted it at all if he didn't agree with it. And I- as a mod- went back and edited the message once I learned she didn't want her emails posted. He didn't dismiss her outright.

Regarding the Todaro's affiliation it's very simple to me- Violi was made Underboss (this is a Mafia rank, not a Ndrangheta one), the connections were within the Mafia network- NY and Montreal. The protocol for entering the organization- ceremony or not- was a Mafia one.

Had this been reversed and Violi said that Todaro made him Crimine (equiv to Mafia Underboss) and they had meetings with the GTA Ndrangheta that would have been a headfuck and it would have collaborated the Todaros being something other than LCN. But it's not. Violi is Calabrian but he joined the Mafia, we'd have to ask him why. But his family had a history of Mafia affiliation so it's not like it's a big question mark or something extraordinary.

If I can add something here, indeed the 'affiliation' to the 'ndrangheta are not the same as the mafia - in the 'ndrangheta you have three people 'the copiata' to give you a ranking in the società maggiore (from the santa ranking onward). The Crimine is not the same as the Underboss by the way, also because the 'ndrangheta is not a hierarchical structure in the same way the mafia is. Underboss might be the Mastro di Giornata in a Locale, certainly not the Crimine. I think the picture is more complicated than just the family in Buffalo, whatever they are.

When Vito died in Montreal, Musitano remained the only one 'officially' linked to Montreal in Hamilton/Ontario. And now Musitano is over and done. The Violis were not exactly in a good relationship with Vito (for obvious reasons). They have always been in the middle - from Calabrian/ndrangheta past (and the time of the run from Montreal) to their own crime family in Hamilton - they have family relationships in Buffalo, people travel for funerals, weddings etc, so their Buffalo 'official' connection make sense in that sense, to avoid losing any residual family power altogether. Giacomo Luppino was linked to Buffalo, but he was also very influential in the ndrangheta in Toronto, in the 1970s he was in happy relationships with Michele Commisso. His son Vincenzo was close to De Leo as well. With Cece Luppino unwilling to follow on his family's path and their family links back down to Siderno, and with the growing influence of the Commisso/Figliomeni side from Toronto, the Violi have to make choices, why couldn't one of these choices to hold hands onto both sides, as the family Luppino-Violi has always pretty much done?

Mastro da giornata? I stand corrected. But when you say "might" I think you're saying there's no true equivalent because both Societies are extremely different? To call the 'Ndrangheta the Calabrian Mafia is a gross, gross misunderstanding when we compare both organizations. So I'm glad you're here and on the ball.

I'm working on a project on the early stuff (pre-1930) and what I know doesn't apply to today because it's gone through many changes. Back in the day Da Giornata was an assistant but to compare pre and post 1950 is like comparing a caterpillar to a butterfly in some respects. Either way, thank you for the correction.

I'm glad we have someone here to focus on the Calabrese side of things and I genuinely look forward to more of your thoughts and contributions. Salut.

It's in the Ndrangheta article Antimafia posted in this very thread....


The investigations of the Project Bene Comune made it possible to ascertain that he was the “Mastro di Giornata” ("Master of the Day"), an important position within a Locale which can only be granted to high-ranking members (the “Mastro di Giornata” deals with conveying, as a spokesperson, the orders and wills of the Capo Locale to his subordinates and, in the opposite direction, the news that the subordinates bring to the top of the Locale; thus a sort of filter to ensure distance, in case of ascertainment of responsibilities in court, between the boss and the actions of his subordinates).

Sounds like more of a messenger than an Underboss. I was going to say that but held back because the modern 'Ndrangheta isn't my area. But it sounds like its function hasn't changed which is interesting and enlightening. Thanks.

These same ranks were outlined for the first time to me when the Piscopisani clan was arrested. They broke down the entire locale, rank by rank, the first locale I've ever seen mapped out like that. I wanted to try to do the same for Toronto, this article antimafia posted is the closest I've seen anyone come.....

Where can I read it?

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4741&p=112072&hili ... ni#p112072

Seriously, NO ONE gave a fuck about ANY of this....

You find the locale structure and the rankings (way more important than the structure as that can change) in Operation Infinito in Lombardy, 2008-2012 documents

[Villain]

Capo locale....thats interesting....did the ca locale had any other type of high level member between him and the top admin?

[calabrianwatch]

Capo locale....thats interesting....did the ca locale had any other type of high level member between him and the top admin?

Depends on the locale -
ndrina (family ONLY) --> locale (group of ndrine in the same territory made of societies - major and minor - depending on ranking, in some cases societies are the same as the locale in some other cases, the societies are bigger than the locale) --> in Calabria, above the locale is the mandamento (3) and then the Provincia. But these are not higher in terms of dictating the capo locale what to do, they are there as support mechanism. Things are not always following the same order, there are big differences in different provinces....

This is a good source to read on this - https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/20 ... ultIndex=1

[Villain]

Capo locale....thats interesting....did the ca locale had any other type of high level member between him and the top admin?

Depends on the locale -
ndrina (family ONLY) --> locale (group of ndrine in the same territory made of societies - major and minor - depending on ranking, in some cases societies are the same as the locale in some other cases, the societies are bigger than the locale) --> in Calabria, above the locale is the mandamento (3) and then the Provincia. But these are not higher in terms of dictating the capo locale what to do, they are there as support mechanism. Things are not always following the same order, there are big differences in different provinces....

This is a good source to read on this - https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/20 ... ultIndex=1

Thanks a lot for the additional info bud. Ill look at it and ill send you a pm if i need some further info...obviously if its ok with you

[calabrianwatch]

Capo locale....thats interesting....did the ca locale had any other type of high level member between him and the top admin?

Depends on the locale -
ndrina (family ONLY) --> locale (group of ndrine in the same territory made of societies - major and minor - depending on ranking, in some cases societies are the same as the locale in some other cases, the societies are bigger than the locale) --> in Calabria, above the locale is the mandamento (3) and then the Provincia. But these are not higher in terms of dictating the capo locale what to do, they are there as support mechanism. Things are not always following the same order, there are big differences in different provinces....

This is a good source to read on this - https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/20 ... ultIndex=1

Thanks a lot for the additional info bud. Ill look at it and ill send you a pm if i need some further info...obviously if its ok with you

Sure, if I can help! That ruling is great as it covers all the 'ndrangheta according to Italians and explained to Canadians

[PolackTony]

Capo locale....thats interesting....did the ca locale had any other type of high level member between him and the top admin?

Depends on the locale -
ndrina (family ONLY) --> locale (group of ndrine in the same territory made of societies - major and minor - depending on ranking, in some cases societies are the same as the locale in some other cases, the societies are bigger than the locale) --> in Calabria, above the locale is the mandamento (3) and then the Provincia. But these are not higher in terms of dictating the capo locale what to do, they are there as support mechanism. Things are not always following the same order, there are big differences in different provinces....

This is a good source to read on this - https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/irb/doc/20 ... ultIndex=1

Thanks a lot for the additional info bud. Ill look at it and ill send you a pm if i need some further info...obviously if its ok with you

Sure, if I can help! That ruling is great as it covers all the 'ndrangheta according to Italians and explained to Canadians

Great resource as a primer on ‘Ndrangheta organizational structure and rank. Thanks for sharing.