Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[stubbs]

No, none of the Mexican cartels are actually designated as terrorist organizations. There was some blowhard politicians talking about it on TV, but it didn't happen.

The goal of the cartels is to make money. That's it. It's not terrorism, regardless of the level of violence.

[calabrianwatch]

‘Ndrangheta Dynamics In The Greater Toronto Area: The Story Of An Internal Mafia Clash (Part 1)

https://bit.ly/3uTnmuZ

This was a great read, very thorough. My only slight problem with it is:

"Due to the repeated arrests listed above, the Society of Siderno lacked a unitary leadership: every 'Ndrina in Siderno as well as every Locale scattered in Italy, Europe and other continents (“it has ninety-six Locali”) was free to act independently, without asking for prior advice or authorization from the top of the mother-Society"

This was always the case, it's not special of that period - the Siderno society has never been hierarchical in the sense of 'authorising' things, it has ALWAYS been particularly conflictual and the 'heads' only solved conflicts, they don't direct anyone's acts! the Costa-Commisso-Macrì fight has been one of the best examples of that. From the 2010-2015 period came a new order which moved the council/society's heads to Ontario from Siderno, precisely because of what Machin says: different people in jail, especially Giuseppe Commisso, means that the highest ranking people were elsewhere. This doesn't mean lack of leadership in Siderno - Siderno is the only Society in the 'ndrangheta that is organised not by 'ndrine and their surname, but by territorial unit within the same Siderno village - it's the only town where you don't just have the 'ndrina Commisso but you also have a street name next to the 'ndrina surname. This means, in practice, that the territory has never been led by leaders, but rather hanged into precarious forms of equilibrium. The strength of the Siderno groups has always been OUTSIDE the Siderno group (and the facts of today prove this too!)

Honestly, that JUMPED OFF THE PAGE for me.... 96.... Ninety- six locali worldwide.....Jesus Christ, lol.....

Yes we have known that since Operation Ape Green and Operation Crimine. And some of these are in Australia and some are in NY as well: the question is that what is considered a locale within the società of Siderno by Siderno is not necessarily considered as such abroad where that locale is.

[NickleCity]

Actually now that I think about it, Violi only said he beat out 30 guys for promotion. He didn't state that was the entire membership of the Buffalo borgata, only that 30 guys were considered for the position of Underboss. Could it be similar to when Barney beat out 16 captains for boss of the West Side?

Buffalo territory has traditionally extended from Buffalo up into Ontario and down to Niagara Falls to Rochester, Utica, Albany, Binghamton all the way west to Erie, PA. That's 10x the territory that the Genoveses control. If Buffalo is back then Joe Todaro probably has no shortage of people to elevate? Given that since 911 most agents have been reassigned to counter terrorism, it likely gave the Todaros some breathing room to rebuild their organization and make money, not headlines.

In Dan Herbeck’s article “Life after Local 210 for the FBI’s inside guy” from Sept. 30, 2012. Ron indicates the government clean up didn’t go far enough and points to Sam Capitano who fought the takeover of the local by a federal trustee being back in charge as an example.

Sam is quoted at being appalled at Fino’s assertion and saying he didn’t oppose the trusteeship, just the way it was done.

Here is the link to this article: https://buffalonews.com/news/life-after ... 50ba1.html

In a letter to Dan Herbeck responding to accusations printed about him in the article Ron states this about 210 and the mob in Buffalo:

Have there been any organized crime murders since I became public? In truth Local 210 and its leadership have cleaned up its image and is now sending more qualified working stewards. Many if not most of the leaders on Western New York Mafia family have hunkered down and try to carry on an image and air of respectability. This in no way means that they do not exist and make money from illegal operations. They know that they are being watched and now operate more clandestinely.

See this link for his whole letter: https://www.ticklethewire.com/2012/10/0 ... fferently/

My point is that Ron’s statement backs what Chris Christie posits as a possibility:

Given that since 911 most agents have been reassigned to counter terrorism, it likely gave the Todaros some breathing room to rebuild their organization and make money, not headlines.

Personally, I believe it is well within the realm of reason that Buffalo has 30 made men. More importantly, I would not rule out the possibility that there are more, maybe significant more! I hear there are made men all up and down cities and towns along the canal corridor. This is “street talk” and I cannot prove it. So, please, take this assertion with a grain of salt!

Also, I do not believe the government ever had a really good handle on the number of men involved in the Buffalo organization. Let me give one example of possible unknown men in Medina “a canal town.”

I’ve got a friend who grew up in the Medina area and tells me that Vinnie Cardone (a lawyer) and his friend “Nick” Joe Schiavone were involved with the Buffalo mafia. Supposedly Vinnie ran things up there. Schiavone’s uncle Lou (different last name—he can’t remember it) who was from Florida was high up he recalls was high up. Nick Schiavone spent a lot of time at Batavia Downs and running card games. Cardone and his family owned vending businesses, a bar, hotel and a lot of other properties.

Here is the interesting part and there may be something here and there may not:

Vinnie Cardone’s son Joe was the Orleans County prosecutor. In 2000 Dan Herbeck had an article called "KILLER GETS 25 YEARS, BUT POLICE FEAR PARTNER IS FREE”. In it we learn a Buffalo mechanic named Ralph Lindeman was robbed of 100K, beaten, decapitated, and his body burned in hopes he wouldn’t be identified.

Before his death Lindemann wrote that “he was in big trouble with ’the mob, guns, drugs, sex, etc.’”

James “Timmy” Bennett of Medina and his friend Jeremiah Cordero were accused of the murder. Cordero had a telemarketing fraud conviction (as you know the Buffalo mob was/is known to be in these rackets).

The DA Joe Cardone somehow received info that Bennet had witnesses "lie" to the grand jury to say Cordero did the killing.

The result: charges against Cordero were dropped and he walks.

I don’t know but this raises a red flag with me, given Vinny Cardone’s supposed background according to my friend.

Link to article: https://buffalonews.com/news/killer-get ... 1a062.html

[Info on Cordero telemarketing charge:

Moore, identified as president of the firms, is charged with two conspiracy counts, 99 counts of wire fraud and two counts of witness tampering, all felonies.

Moore's employees, who are charged with felony conspiracy and wire fraud, are: Denise Guidice, 22; Arthur Moore, 26; Anthony "Nino" Aiello, 31; John Aiello, 29; Robert Stotz, 34; Jeremiah "Base" Cordero, 23; Mark Morgan, 32; Joel Scinta, 19; Michael Schuh, 23; Eva Monte, 29; and Mirella Troncone, 24, all of Buffalo.

Link to article: https://buffalonews.com/news/elderly-he ... 6e1f0.html.

Another question this raises for me: Where Aiello’s above related to “Andy” Aiello heroin trafficker in precursor to BUSICO case? It was rumored Andy’s brother watch his rackets while he was away.

See this article also: Cordero a victim in robbery? https://buffalonews.com/news/2-arrested ... 9874d.html ]

Again take this with a grain of Salt. It has not been confirmed. I Can’t say it is true. But, I don’t think that means we can’t consider it. “Street talk” has value. It has led me to several interesting finds that I would not have without it.

This is just one example of the many stories I’ve heard. I could tell 5 or more stories just like this about the city where I live.

Chris you indicated you would like to hear my opinion. The problem is I have so many, but let me summarize with this from the defunct Topix Forum thread about the Monty Massimi murder by Sam Vacanti. I believe it summarizes how many people in Buffalo feel about the mob here:

Buffalo, NY is and always will be one of the most corrupt cities in America because there are too many people in high places who have family ties to drug trafficking, gambling, and murder, that goes back to at least 3 generations of Italian mobsters who's close knit relatives have managed to reach every position of power available in Buffalo: Mayor, Police Chief and District Attorney not to mention countless Judges. I'm not going to mention any names but this is going to have to be dismantled on a federal level. These people run the city with no fear of prosecution. Their nephews, uncles and cousins run around North Buffalo, Kenmore and the West Side of Buffalo dealing major cocaine and heroin, but they always seem to escape the yearly FBI round ups.... 


Sound crazy? I don’t think so!

Remember my post on the information I dug up on the Massimi murder and Mayor Sedita’s alleged ties to the mob, the mayor’s attorney brother’s defense of mobsters in local 210, and the mayor’s DA son’s alleged botching/handling the Massimi case?

Well, I just found another tidbit: Mayor Sedita was married to a Sarah Vacanti.

Next, consider the alleged roles Grisanti’s step-children are accused in playing in the cover up.

Really believe this was a covered up mob hit. Can’t prove it, so I could be wrong, but there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing that direction.

Right there you have several possible examples that could substantiate the Topix Forum quote. Next throw in the fact that 1 DEA agent is under indictment for allegedly protecting Italian Organized Crime in Buffalo and the fact that 3 DEA agents are currently under investigation along with an BPD detective for the same … an things really start to substantiate that quote.

Next, look at what I posted yesterday about the judge who was hit by a train and what Peter Gerace’s ex-wife alleges he did. Coincidence he was hit by a train last Sunday when this new was coming out?

Could be—we don’t know yet. ...But it bears looking into.

Finally, consider the fact that Dom Violi is alleged to have had many dirty cops in his hand. Could it be Buffalo and Hamilton have always operated this way because of the influence of the Buffalo mob? Just conjecture, but I feel it is reasonable to look into this.

I could keep going but that is enough for now. Call my crazy that is OK. It is what I think.

[SantoClaus]

No, none of the Mexican cartels are actually designated as terrorist organizations. There was some blowhard politicians talking about it on TV, but it didn't happen.

The goal of the cartels is to make money. That's it. It's not terrorism, regardless of the level of violence.

Interesting, I read a International Narco Report that indicated that was a conversation in America, never knew it was just political positioning, thanks!

Then I’ll assume that Homeland was involved for the real threat being ISIS like organizations, which makes sense in Canada. Does Homeland make or assist in traditional OC investigation in the USA?

Could just be the bizarre climate that Canada is?

[NickleCity]

No, none of the Mexican cartels are actually designated as terrorist organizations. There was some blowhard politicians talking about it on TV, but it didn't happen.

The goal of the cartels is to make money. That's it. It's not terrorism, regardless of the level of violence.

Interesting, I read a International Narco Report that indicated that was a conversation in America, never knew it was just political positioning, thanks!

Then I’ll assume that Homeland was involved for the real threat being ISIS like organizations, which makes sense in Canada. Does Homeland make or assist in traditional OC investigation in the USA?

Could just be the bizarre climate that Canada is?

Homeland security is the lead agency in the Buffalo OC investigation.

[Pogo The Clown]

Mafia recruitment in WNY and Ontario has never pulled primarily from some mythical "recruitment pool" based on the greater Italian population, but a very specific set of relationships. Todaro Jr. and Violi are both third generation underworld figures. There is still interrelation and many of the relationships among known members are multi-generational.

The Buffalo family has never built its membership the way Chicago, parts of NYC, or New England did. They have always been closer to a family like the DeCavalcantes in how they select members. Not just "recruitment," either, but their entire approach... like Gravano recently said, he found it strange the Buffalo family's MO was basically to induct someone and immediately give them a union position. They don't have the union anymore, at least not the way they used to, but their family likely follows the same patterns of membership it always has, albeit in more limited form. Detroit would be another great comparison as far as "recruitment" goes.

Can't really have a discussion about potential membership if the premise isn't even based on how Buffalo has historically recruited members. Not ancient history either, but we can see it among the confirmed members even today. If it's a question of the "quality" of prospective member's, that's another discussion but you can't leave history out of that, either.

No question Peter Gerace is a loser. But if he's a member, it's because he's Joe Todaro's loser and that matters. People have a tendency to look at the past through rose-colored glasses... read through the Magaddino tapes and you'll see that Stefano Magaddino inducted his loser nephew Joe Bongiorno as a member and got him a job tending bar at a bowling alley. The non-Italian bowling alley manager was a repeat visitor to Magaddino's office and often complained about Bongiorno for, among other things, stealing money from the till when he was on shift. Stefano Magaddino's brother Nino was a made member who Magaddino repeatedly complained about, as Nino Magaddino would get drunk at the bowling alley every night and embarrass himself.

It was a ~100 member organization back then and made a lot more money, but you see a lot of the same trends repeat.

That only makes it less likely that Buffalo has maintained its membership and grown by 1/3 over the last 20 years. Primarily sticking to personal relations for recruitment is a very limited pool to begin with as there are only so many sons and nephews willing to jump into the mob life. That pool shrinks exponentially with every new generation of Americanization, interethnic marriage and declining birth rates.


Could be why we saw Detroit's membership cut by more than half from the 1960s to the 1990s and Buffalo losing over half its members from the 1980s to the 2000s. The members left in both families were also old as dirt indicating that little new blood was actually being brought in. Neither family was able to find enough recruits, personal relations or otherwise, to maintain its membership in previous generations so how could they possibly find them now when their pool is the smallest it's ever been? And in Buffalos case not only maintain its membership but actually grow by a 1/3 and then on top of that have all those new and active members escape the detection of LE for almost 20 years.


Pogo

[SonnyBlackstein]

Ok I'll play along.

Chicago has far more Italians than Buffalo (about 500,000) and it's down to about 15 made members. Using the same math, i.e. dividing by 50% for males and subtracting 24% for under 18, that means the Chicago mob is .00007 of the available Italian male population.

The New York metropolitan area of course is the largest with 2.6 million. About 700 members for the 5 families. Again, divide by 50%, subtract another 24%, and the NY families have .0007 of the available Italian male population.

But Buffalo, with its available Italian male population of 11,400 and using the same breakdown has a bigger percentage of .0026 with its 30 members than either New York or Chicago?

Another

Umm, thanks for that.
My only point professor is that if you cant find thirty guys from a pool of 40,000 (Buffalo + Hamilton) then I dont know what youre talking about.

[Pogo The Clown]

And it's a point that Wiseguy easily shot down. No way is the Buffalo family netting several times more recruits from its available pool than the NY and Chicago are.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Mafia recruitment in WNY and Ontario has never pulled primarily from some mythical "recruitment pool" based on the greater Italian population, but a very specific set of relationships. Todaro Jr. and Violi are both third generation underworld figures. There is still interrelation and many of the relationships among known members are multi-generational.

The Buffalo family has never built its membership the way Chicago, parts of NYC, or New England did. They have always been closer to a family like the DeCavalcantes in how they select members. Not just "recruitment," either, but their entire approach... like Gravano recently said, he found it strange the Buffalo family's MO was basically to induct someone and immediately give them a union position. They don't have the union anymore, at least not the way they used to, but their family likely follows the same patterns of membership it always has, albeit in more limited form. Detroit would be another great comparison as far as "recruitment" goes.

Can't really have a discussion about potential membership if the premise isn't even based on how Buffalo has historically recruited members. Not ancient history either, but we can see it among the confirmed members even today. If it's a question of the "quality" of prospective member's, that's another discussion but you can't leave history out of that, either.

No question Peter Gerace is a loser. But if he's a member, it's because he's Joe Todaro's loser and that matters. People have a tendency to look at the past through rose-colored glasses... read through the Magaddino tapes and you'll see that Stefano Magaddino inducted his loser nephew Joe Bongiorno as a member and got him a job tending bar at a bowling alley. The non-Italian bowling alley manager was a repeat visitor to Magaddino's office and often complained about Bongiorno for, among other things, stealing money from the till when he was on shift. Stefano Magaddino's brother Nino was a made member who Magaddino repeatedly complained about, as Nino Magaddino would get drunk at the bowling alley every night and embarrass himself.

It was a ~100 member organization back then and made a lot more money, but you see a lot of the same trends repeat.

That only makes it less likely that Buffalo has maintained its membership and grown by 1/3 over the last 20 years. Primarily sticking to personal relations for recruitment is a very limited pool to begin with as there are only so many sons and nephews willing to jump into the mob life. That pool shrinks exponentially with every new generation of Americanization, interethnic marriage and declining birth rates.


Could be why we saw Detroit's membership cut by more than half from the 1960s to the 1990s and Buffalo losing over half its members from the 1980s to the 2000s. The members left in both families were also old as dirt indicating that little new blood was actually being brought in. Neither family was able to find enough recruits, personal relations or otherwise, to maintain its membership in previous generations so how could they possibly find them now when their pool is the smallest it's ever been? And in Buffalos case not only maintain its membership but actually grow by a 1/3 and then on top of that have all those new and active members escape the detection of LE for almost 20 years.


Pogo

Lol. Talk about stealing my thunder Pogo. But I'll go ahead and post my response.

As you said, if anything, how B describes their historical method of recruiting would tend to narrow the field of possible recruits. Notice how the more recent membership has revolved around a handful of people in the Violi-Luppino family in Hamilton. Dominic Violi made. Giuseppe Violi not sure who to go with. Cece Luppino turns it down. This doesn't seem to reflect tapping into enough people, on a wider basis from Ontario to Utica, to pump the family back up to over 30 or to keep the numbers stable as guys die off.

It's fitting people have mentioned Detroit. It had a high of 30 members between the 1996 GamTax case and a 2001 article that mentioned the same figure. With Buffalo being clocked at 34 members by Canadian law enforcement in 1997, and 23 members by U.S. law enforcement in 2006, the totals of the two families were rather similar during that time.

Since 2001, at least 21 known Detroit members have died, likely leaving its membership in the single digits today. But Buffalo has either maintained or shot back up to over 30 during that time, unbeknownst to law enforcement on both sides of the border?

[AntComello]

Thanks for all your hard work nickel city I enjoy reading your posts even though it seems like some people may be losing sleep over them. Keep it comin

[B.]

That only makes it less likely that Buffalo has maintained its membership and grown by 1/3 over the last 20 years. Primarily sticking to personal relations for recruitment is a very limited pool to begin with as there are only so many sons and nephews willing to jump into the mob life. That pool shrinks exponentially with every new generation of Americanization, interethnic marriage and declining birth rates.

Could be why we saw Detroit's membership cut by more than half from the 1960s to the 1990s and Buffalo losing over half its members from the 1980s to the 2000s. The members left in both families were also old as dirt indicating that little new blood was actually being brought in. Neither family was able to find enough recruits, personal relations or otherwise, to maintain its membership in previous generations so how could they possibly find them now when their pool is the smallest it's ever been? And in Buffalos case not only maintain its membership but actually grow by a 1/3 and then on top of that have all those new and active members escape the detection of LE for almost 20 years.

This is based on a faulty premise given the FBI has never in their history identified most let alone all of the Buffalo membership. I don't believe they've ever made that claim themselves, either. They've never had the inside sources who could give them comprehensive membership breakdowns or a total membership counts past or present.

The FBI's total number of identified members has declined in relation to the total membership they've identified, not the total membership. Violi is the first time we've had a member (high-ranking, too) explicitly comment on the family's size outside of Stefano Magaddino's 1960s statement scoffing about the FBI's estimates.

The "...escape the detection of LE..." comment is faith-based logic that is impossible to prove or deny. It assumes that the FBI has made members cooperating or taped recordings that would prove the total membership from the last 20 years. They might have a list of "suspected members" based on the cooperation of associates or circumstantial info but we have no indication they have sources who could confirm or deny membership from the inside.

There seems to be a major disconnect in the discussion when it comes to the FBI's practices when it comes to identifying members. With few exceptions, they require spoken confirmation of a member via cooperation or recording to identify members. This is why the Morena investigation in Canada is so valuable -- it identified members and ranks that would not be possible to confirm otherwise. Even in families with multiple high-level cooperators spanning years the FBI has struggled to have a completely comprehensive "air-tight" membership count, nor have they identified every member -- they've come close, but it should tell us something that even in that instance it's not comprehensive.

Available info indicates the Todaros are extremely circumspect in how they conduct mafia administration. I don't think that can be challenged based on what's available. The question is if this trickles down to the rest of the membership.

Downtown Buffalo to Downtown Rochester is 1hr and 11 minutes. The outlying suburbs and bedroom communities make these cities even closer. The Italian population in these two areas combined is 378,204. IMHO that is a significant pool of people in a relatively small area.

Yeah, I worked with a girl from Rochester and talked to her a little bit about it years back. Her father and uncles were Bills fans and Todaro loyalists. I kid on the last part, but talking about Buffalo was completely natural to her. I live an hour from a major US city and it's not some elusive, mysterious place and it's the cultural hub of the entire area. Mafia members in NYC drive from Long Island to New Jersey. I don't know how an hour's drive became some massive barrier to maintaining ties.

Hamilton is the same distance from Buffalo as Rochester, plus there's a border crossing, but we know they are still inducting members there in recent years. That opens up possibilities on the US side, especially in Rochester where they historically had a large decina that tried to break off and form their own family.

Like I alluded to earlier, even having one member somewhere is statistically significant in a discussion where we're splitting hairs about thirty members. And the discussion isn't about thirty members -- it's about roughly 16 unidentified members. One member is over 6% of the unidentified total alluded to by Violi which is incredibly significant if we want to get statistical about it.

One or two men in Rochester or Utica, historic strongholds of the family with large decinas, would be 12 or 24% of the unidentified total. In a discussion where everyone's lips are stretched so tight, every single possible member in any location is statistically significant.

[B.]

It seems like everyone now agrees there is a Buffalo administration, but the hang-up is entirely on the "30 members" claim by Violi.

So, the argument is that Domenico Violi was lying. What would his motivation be? Did he think it was impressive to be underboss over 30 members in a conversation with a Bonanno soldier who was recently made into a family with 150 soldiers? Did he not think Morena could verify this info with other members, either in Ontario or NYC?

If he was willing to lie about having a whopping 30 members, why wouldn't he stretch it a little further and claim 50? 30 seems... I don't know, a little too realistic. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's a realistic claim for the mid-2010s when you consider the historical size and scope of the Buffalo family.

Domenico Violi is being accused of thought crime by the Black Hand's own Wardens of Cancel Culture. Next thing you know he'll be accused of inciting an insurrection.

[Pogo The Clown]

This is based on a faulty premise given the FBI has never in their history identified most let alone all of the Buffalo membership. I don't believe they've ever made that claim themselves, either. They've never had the inside sources who could give them comprehensive membership breakdowns or a total membership counts past or present.

The FBI's total number of identified members has declined in relation to the total membership they've identified, not the total membership. Violi is the first time we've had a member (high-ranking, too) explicitly comment on the family's size outside of Stefano Magaddino's 1960s statement scoffing about the FBI's estimates.

The "...escape the detection of LE..." comment is faith-based logic that is impossible to prove or deny. It assumes that the FBI has made members cooperating or taped recordings that would prove the total membership from the last 20 years. They might have a list of "suspected members" based on the cooperation of associates or circumstantial info but we have no indication they have sources who could confirm or deny membership from the inside.

There seems to be a major disconnect in the discussion when it comes to the FBI's practices when it comes to identifying members. With few exceptions, they require spoken confirmation of a member via cooperation or recording to identify members. This is why the Morena investigation in Canada is so valuable -- it identified members and ranks that would not be possible to confirm otherwise. Even in families with multiple high-level cooperators spanning years the FBI has struggled to have a completely comprehensive "air-tight" membership count, nor have they identified every member -- they've come close, but it should tell us something that even in that instance it's not comprehensive.

Available info indicates the Todaros are extremely circumspect in how they conduct mafia administration. I don't think that can be challenged based on what's available. The question is if this trickles down to the rest of the membership.

But this is all based on your own assumptions on what LE does or does not know and sources they do or do not have. This same arguement has been used every time one of these 'X Family is still around/X family has been quietly rebuilding in the shadows' debates comes up. It didn't hold water then and it doesn't hold water now.


Pogo

[B.]

But this is all based on your own assumptions on what LE does or does not know and sources they do or do not have. This same arguement has been used every time one of these 'X Family is still around/X family has been quietly rebuilding in the shadows' debates comes up. It didn't hold water then and it doesn't hold water now.

It's based on a recording of the Buffalo underboss telling a Bonanno member they have ~30 members. I don't know where this PTSD about other families comes in here.

[Wiseguy]

It seems like everyone now agrees there is a Buffalo administration, but the hang-up is entirely on the "30 members" claim by Violi.

Mmm...back up. As I've said before, I'm not convinced Todaro isn't largely a titular boss. Violi was underboss for weeks before going down. Presumably he still holds the position, such that it is, but let's be honest about this supposed administration.

So, the argument is that Domenico Violi was lying. What would his motivation be? Did he think it was impressive to be underboss over 30 members in a conversation with a Bonanno soldier who was recently made into a family with 150 soldiers? Did he not think Morena could verify this info with other members, either in Ontario or NYC?

If he was willing to lie about having a whopping 30 members, why wouldn't he stretch it a little further and claim 50? 30 seems... I don't know, a little too realistic. Yeah, that's exactly it. It's a realistic claim for the mid-2010s when you consider the historical size and scope of the Buffalo family.

Once again, all things considered and not just conveniently cherry picking his statement in isolation, I tend to think he was engaging in hyperbole. And, again, he would hardly be the first guy to cite inflated figures of his family.

Incidentally, who said the Bonannos have 150 soldiers?

Domenico Violi is being accused of thought crime by the Black Hand's own Wardens of Cancel Culture. Next thing you know he'll be accused of inciting an insurrection.

Wardens of Cancel Culture? Lol. Could you be any more dramatic?

Maybe quit bringing places like Utica or Rochester into the equation, as if they have any bearing. It smacks of desperation.

But this is all based on your own assumptions on what LE does or does not know and sources they do or do not have. This same arguement has been used every time one of these 'X Family is still around/X family has been quietly rebuilding in the shadows' debates comes up. It didn't hold water then and it doesn't hold water now.

Its the same Detroit arguments all over again. Detroit/Buffalo is somehow different from all the other families, i.e. bucking declining membership trends, known or unknown members operating under the radar and law enforcement unable to bring regular indictments, and so on.

It's based on a recording of the Buffalo underboss telling a Bonanno member they have ~30 members. I don't know where this PTSD about other families comes in here.

It's not PTSD. It's why didn't you guys learn the last time around? Do you "want to believe" that much?