Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[SonnyBlackstein]

Ill throw this at our respective good natured combatants from both sides: Pogo, Wiseguy vs CC, Cheech, B etc.
I think we can all be proud here guys. We have an emotive conversation... that on the internet, managed to stay (or end up) on track.

I sincerely think we ought to be a little chuffed with this.

Both sides have a legitimate horse to ride here, and I can honestly see each sides perspective and resultant exasperation with their opponent, for 'failing' to see an 'obvious' extrapolation and conclusion.

I am genuinely proud of both sides. A mature argument debated by men.

I would end on one note though. Being open is an incredibly important maturity. It allows one to take in new information, reconcile with existing and come to a (if required) new conclusion. A sign of intelligent maturity is openness. And Chris Christie, Cheech, B et al, you have all demonstrated this. Pogo and Wiseguy, I would trust, that if/when sufficient evidence presents itself, you will both display such.

My sincere best to all, a fantastic debate, which stayed on point, on a fucking internet forum. Keep it up!

[Angelo Santino]

I enjoy having debates with Wiseguy/Pogo. They make me a better debater and present things/raise questions that make me question my theories and findings and put them to the test. I found more value in that as opposed to someone agreeing with me all the time. Anyone can create a hypothesis, a responsible person invites people to try and knock it down. That's my approach to this topic that I know and love.

We come from different disciplines and what makes someone great at something is being interdisciplinarian about it. I see their viability argument and consider it great weigh at measuring a group's activity. And Buffalo's recent news doesn't in any way shatter their discipline or render it obsolete. There's exceptions to every discipline. In regards to the "sides" in this argument, think back to the Predator film where the alien keeps alternating his vision from heat sensing to motion to whatever else his technology uses, he uses different lenses to track down its prey. That's how I look at the different disciplines.

All due respect to my organizational/tradition angle, they are right in that these groups as criminal organizations (ie Sopranos/Godfather etc) are subpar shells of their former selves. Even Philadelphia with their bookmaking and drug dealing isn't that impressive. George Anastasia even said that the black groups generate the type of money that Merlino couldn't come close to. But I'm not looking at things from that perspective. I am more interested in someone being a 4th generation member than I am what rackets he's into. And admitably that's one of my (many many) limitations on my part but I can only look at so much and I'm not focused on the modern era.

I'll say this up front, if I want to make a chart, I go to Pogo; if I want to know indictments/statistics of a group I go to Wiseguy. I take their info at face value because I know and trust them to be honest, thorough and unbias.

We on here should strive to be loyal opposition and not rivals. That's how I viewed Pogo/Wiseguy in this debate and we managed to duke it out without a single insult launched.

Good times.

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But I think NickleCity deserves the spotlight, he's covered this group's modern ongoings and I'd like to hear more from him aside from his posting articles. He's held back but I think he has alot to say and I'm quite open to hearing his thoughts and opinions.

[Patrickgold]

I remember Peter Edwards said that the Buffalo LCN had regrouped and members were loansharking at casino. Did we ever pinpoint who was in charge of that operation?

[NickleCity]

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But I think NickleCity deserves the spotlight, he's covered this group's modern ongoings and I'd like to hear more from him aside from his posting articles. He's held back but I think he has alot to say and I'm quite open to hearing his thoughts and opinions.

Thanks CC... I've been very busy with my day job. This is just a hobby for me. When I get I chance I may share a few of my thoughts and opinions.

[Lupara]

According to my sources Todaro has ties to Klaus Schwab, and after The Great Reset Buffalo will rise above their former glory.

Also, they are increasingly investing in 5G, thereby having the ability to control your mind. This will however still prove a challenge with Wiseguy, who has shown to be 4G immune.

[Wiseguy]

Ill throw this at our respective good natured combatants from both sides: Pogo, Wiseguy vs CC, Cheech, B etc.
I think we can all be proud here guys. We have an emotive conversation... that on the internet, managed to stay (or end up) on track.

I sincerely think we ought to be a little chuffed with this.

Both sides have a legitimate horse to ride here, and I can honestly see each sides perspective and resultant exasperation with their opponent, for 'failing' to see an 'obvious' extrapolation and conclusion.

I am genuinely proud of both sides. A mature argument debated by men.

Phil.jpg

I would end on one note though. Being open is an incredibly important maturity. It allows one to take in new information, reconcile with existing and come to a (if required) new conclusion. A sign of intelligent maturity is openness. And Chris Christie, Cheech, B et al, you have all demonstrated this. Pogo and Wiseguy, I would trust, that if/when sufficient evidence presents itself, you will both display such.

My sincere best to all, a fantastic debate, which stayed on point, on a fucking internet forum. Keep it up!

I can't speak for Pogo but, in terms of being open to changing my mind, admitting I was wrong, etc., I outlined earlier in this thread what it would take for me to be convinced the claims of a reorganized/reactivated LCN family in Buffalo are indeed true. I'm posting it again lest further accusations of "not debating in good faith" or "moving the goal posts" are forthcoming. Again, the bar is pretty high. Not because I'm trying to be difficult or to be a stubborn SOB, but because it should be when considering something like this.

The feds need to lay out at least some semblance of a functioning hierarchy. Prove the Buffalo mob is really more at this point than a titular boss who wisely went legit and just makes pizza all day, a guy who was named underboss but seems to be more a drug trafficker who wanted some formal legitimacy in the world of LCN, and 10 inactive senior citizens.

Is it too much to ask that Todaro actually be charged like boss after boss in families we know are active have been? Other than Rocco Luppino up in Hamilton (when was the last time we heard anything from him?), who makes up middle management?

And what about those 20 or so unaccounted for members? In the New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago families, it's pretty much the common consensus that very few members have not been identified. I'm applying this same standard to Buffalo and expect better than two-thirds of the family being unknown. Especially after 30 years of the known membership being in clear decline. That's the organizational part. Since we are talking about organized crime, after all.

Beyond that, bring at least the occasional ongoing indictment that shows these guys, and Violi himself frankly, aren't just flashes in the pan. That we're actually talking about a continuing criminal enterprise and not just some ad-hoc, Mafia-style crimes committed by a small number of loosely associated individuals. Again, the same as those other families listed above.

My 2 cents.

[JeremyTheJew]

Isn't it possible that a


fter 9/11 FBI changed there objective..... Decreased there departments....

Meanwhile you have a handful of guys that are semi retirement.... But happen to see a opportunity (ala massino)
They grab a handful of guys from up there (canada) and over there (bonannos) (which we have evidence of cross family making ceremony) slap the young guy Violi as UB bring in the new blood....

All this while convieneantly canada is in a all hell breaks war which this said family is/was involved with....

I mean we watch it in the movie constantly.... Just another case of life imitating art that imitates life

[SonnyBlackstein]

Anyone can create a hypothesis, a responsible person invites people to try and knock it down.

Worth repeating.

think back to the Predator film where the alien keeps alternating his vision from heat sensing to motion to whatever else his technology uses, he uses different lenses to track down its prey. That's how I look at the different disciplines.

Quality analogy.

We on here should strive to be loyal opposition and not rivals. That's how I viewed Pogo/Wiseguy in this debate and we managed to duke it out without a single insult launched.

Seconded. Our pursuit should be the truth, not a win/loss scenario.

But I think NickleCity deserves the spotlight, he's covered this group's modern ongoings and I'd like to hear more from him aside from his posting articles. He's held back but I think he has alot to say and I'm quite open to hearing his thoughts and opinions.

Concur. Props NC, and as CC says, if you hold opinions, we're interested to hear.

My 2 cents.

Good post.

[calabrianwatch]

Are you guys aware that in Operation Canadian Connection in Calabria (2019) which eventually ended up partially with project sindacato in Ontario (now flunked because the cops read private lawyer-client communication) two ndranghetisti speak about the Luppinos?

The story is
Carmelo Muià has to go to visit Angelo and Cosimo Figliomeni in Ontario to enquire about the murder of his brother in Siderno. Angelo and Cosimo are - for Siderno - the head of the Società of Siderno, dislocated to Ontario for a number of reasons. Partners and satellites of the Commisso they are the head of the Siderno Group in Toronto and around.
Carmelo Muià speaks with Giuseppe Macrì, also in the società of Siderno, also charged in the operation. Muià asks about the murder of Cece Luppino, killed in January 2019 in Hamilton, son of Rocco Luppino. Cece is Macrì's nephew.
In fact Giuseppe Macrì is married with Liliana Tavernese, who is the sister of Gisella Tavernese (married Prochilo), who is the mother of Angelica Prochilo who was the wife of Cece Luppino.
Muià and Macrì discuss the murder and Muià says that he is going to ask to the Figliomeni what the hell is happening in Ontario, why the murders. Macrì says that indeed the situation is not good in Ontario and they both talk about the fact that some Calabrian clans in the area in Canada are 'going with the sicilians' which essentially explains the war. However, the Luppino's links with Siderno - they hint - mean that there still has to be respect and involvement somehow.

I found this interesting with the discussion here about Luppino-Violi and Buffalo too.

[SantoClaus]

Aren't members of SIderno, also Cosa Nostra?

Imagine it was just the ghost of Rocco Perri lol?

[Pogo The Clown]

What Wiseguy said. I'll change my mind if in the coming years we start seeing some made guys i.e. some Soldiers, some Capos, the occasional administration guy with groups of associates working with them, etc start getting busted like we see with the other families.


Like I said before we haven't seen a made member busted in Buffalo since 2002 and we are now into the 8th year of this alleged resurgence and still nothing to indicate it.


Pogo

[calabrianwatch]

Aren't members of SIderno, also Cosa Nostra?

Imagine it was just the ghost of Rocco Perri lol?

Siderno in Canada are not Cosa Nostra - they are one of the strongest ndrangheta groups

[calabrianwatch]

Are you guys aware that in Operation Canadian Connection in Calabria (2019) which eventually ended up partially with project sindacato in Ontario (now flunked because the cops read private lawyer-client communication) two ndranghetisti speak about the Luppinos?

The story is
Carmelo Muià has to go to visit Angelo and Cosimo Figliomeni in Ontario to enquire about the murder of his brother in Siderno. Angelo and Cosimo are - for Siderno - the head of the Società of Siderno, dislocated to Ontario for a number of reasons. Partners and satellites of the Commisso they are the head of the Siderno Group in Toronto and around.
Carmelo Muià speaks with Giuseppe Macrì, also in the società of Siderno, also charged in the operation. Muià asks about the murder of Cece Luppino, killed in January 2019 in Hamilton, son of Rocco Luppino. Cece is Macrì's nephew.
In fact Giuseppe Macrì is married with Liliana Tavernese, who is the sister of Gisella Tavernese (married Prochilo), who is the mother of Angelica Prochilo who was the wife of Cece Luppino.
Muià and Macrì discuss the murder and Muià says that he is going to ask to the Figliomeni what the hell is happening in Ontario, why the murders. Macrì says that indeed the situation is not good in Ontario and they both talk about the fact that some Calabrian clans in the area in Canada are 'going with the sicilians' which essentially explains the war. However, the Luppino's links with Siderno - they hint - mean that there still has to be respect and involvement somehow.

I found this interesting with the discussion here about Luppino-Violi and Buffalo too.

and just to add on this - just seen this https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/0 ... ction.html

[OcSleeper]

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/0 ... ption.html

[Cheech]

What Wiseguy said. I'll change my mind if in the coming years we start seeing some made guys i.e. some Soldiers, some Capos, the occasional administration guy with groups of associates working with them, etc start getting busted like we see with the other families.


Like I said before we haven't seen a made member busted in Buffalo since 2002 and we are now into the 8th year of this alleged resurgence and still nothing to indicate it.


Pogo

Violi was just busted or you saying geography?