Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[UTC]

OL. That I know, but to make it realistic instead of being the tiniest possible tail wagging the biggest possible dog, who literally are we talking about? What guys in Buffalo are the senior management team that governs these guys inn Canada?

The idea of Todaro (or anyone else in Buffalo) running a war in Canada via proxy, while making pizza dough, is something out of a bad Mafia novel.

I've been told it is really happenin'. Better believe it.

So no one knows who the brain trust and muscle in Buffalo is that is directing Canadian guys? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm trying to be more concrete.

[Wiseguy]

So no one knows who the brain trust and muscle in Buffalo is that is directing Canadian guys? I'm not trying to be sarcastic. I'm trying to be more concrete.

Good luck getting that around here. This is a very complicated case, UTC. You know, a lotta ins, lotta outs, lotta what-have-you's. A lotta strands to keep in your head, man.

[CabriniGreen]

To the posters that mention "Buffalo", in terms of being part of Buffalo, reporting to Buffalo, feuding with Buffalo, working with Buffalo, etc, who exactly are we talking about? Anyone in Buffalo?

The Todaro LCN family

LOL. That I know, but to make it realistic instead of being the tiniest possible tail wagging the biggest possible dog, who literally are we talking about? What guys in Buffalo are the senior management team that governs these guys inn Canada?

Bro, in all seriousness, no one is really in the mood to explain all 367 pages of this thread.

It's been an open question about Buffalo since the Violis got caught on the wire.

Now, many people are of the opinion that the main criminal activity is in Canada. Now Wiseguy is gonna argue that the majority of the membership is in the states, EVEN as he simultaneously argues these SAME guys are inactive and basically nonfunctional. Yet he will persist to argue against the idea that the major crimes are committed in Canada.

Now, me, personally I think it's all the Violi brothers, that their crew, MAYBE, could be considered comparable to the Scoppa brothers outfit. And the Scoppas were strong enough to mount a real challenge to the regime. They have all the contacts, and a long history of Narcotics trafficking.

The big question isnt who, we know who's pulling the strings, the Violis. Renard didnt say Todaro was involved in Montreal intrigues, it's always the Violis.

The question is WHY, and WHY NOW? Why does LCN NEED the Buffalo branch reactivated?

Also, in another thread, antimafia had a very good post, and made a good case for why maybe it was TODARO who was embellishing, with Violi just repeating what he was told.

Hell, I was convinced the were an Ndrina, antimafia posted an excerpt from wiretaps in Calabria with Siderno group mobsters discussing Cece Luppinos murder. They seemed VERY familiar with the Violis, ( a Luppino daughter married a Commisso, according to Sixth Family..)

My unpopular take on it? The Bonnanos Montreal outpost is irretrievable, and they sent Zummo, made Morena, to try and re build their crew. I think the fact Violi offered to introduce them to the old Cotroni regime was a good indicator. I think the Bonnanos were trying to tap the Violis extensive contacts, the Violis tapped the Bonnanos extensive infrastructure and manpower.

A mutual partnership in my eyes. But the shit is complicated, we dont even know what the Musitanos are, like I said before, they seem to be in between Cosa Nostra, and Ndrangheta without formally belonging to either.

[CabriniGreen]

Like, we dont KNOW for sure. The fuckin cops dont know. No one has flipped, so we dont know....

[UTC]

I was just looking for the names of a couple of potentially powerful Buffalo people that could be involved. I wasn't looking for a thumbnail sketch of the 367 pages, since I read them more or less as they were written, nor to try to unravel the mysteries of Canada. Let's just say the people who think Buffalo is alive and influential in Canada are correct. Who exactly are are we talking about if that theory is correct? If Buffalo might be directing some pretty serious people in Canada, there must be some known heavyweights in Buffalo who appear to potentially have that clout and muscle.

[CabriniGreen]

I was just looking for the names of a couple of potentially powerful Buffalo people that could be involved. I wasn't looking for a thumbnail sketch of the 367 pages, since I read them more or less as they were written, nor to try to unravel the mysteries of Canada. Let's just say the people who think Buffalo is alive and influential in Canada are correct. Who exactly are are we talking about if that theory is correct? If Buffalo might be directing some pretty serious people in Canada, there must be some known heavyweights in Buffalo who appear to potentially have that clout and muscle.

Lol. Bro you trolling now. You said you read the thing, so in Canada you should know, it's the Violis, and Luppinos.

It's not " PEOPLE THINK" Buffalo is alive, jesus you sound like Wiseguy with that same argument. Its WHY DID DOMENICO VIOLI GET CAUGHT, ON A WIRE, TALKING ABOUT MAKING UNDERBOSS OF THE BUFFALO FAMILY, at a Bonnano making ceremony?

The fact that he was present at the ceremony is evidence that he is an initiated member of LCN, so when he says he got made with Buffalo, it must be true, that much at least. Hes a relatively recently made member of a family we all thought were defunct. So the family apparently is active enough to make a new member. No one imagined this. Big question, WHY?

Put it this way, sounds like you are asking WHO made the Violis, its been documented Todaro. If you are asking, what the action in Buffalo? Who are the players now?Well, the action is in Hamilton for the Violis, and partly Quebec. That's what was in the indictments, criminal activity in Canada.

I dont blame your line of thinking, I've had a hard time believing the Bonnanos could run Montreal by remote control as well....

Like, you follow this stuff? You got the Musitanos embroiled in a situation with a company claiming to have contracts worth 110 million a MONTH, for FIVE YEARS!!! And they might not even BE made.....

The crime fa tons up there are plenty interesting....

[SantoClaus]

I’ve been in and out of Hamilton for years, even before Papalia was killed. Since the early 2000’s, nobody was talking Buffalo, mostly HA.

When the Rizzutos were getting attacked, you heard about the Calabrese, Haitians and Desjardins.

Then Frank Papalia died 2014, next thing it as if Buffalo was important again. Maybe because, the Papalia’s never retaliated on Musitanos, they need to wait for Frank’s death, I don’t really know.

For what’s its worth, there were rumours of Ranieri being in Hamilton, around that time, and a hit on Ang Musitano around the same time then. Verducci was killed instead,

In downtown Toronto, where I was at the time, mostly the financial district. People were talking about Phil Genovese or Philly and the Genovese, I never got any clearer information. It could of been just some trashing being talked lol. I’ve heard of the 5 families of NYC with a presence in Toronto.

Up until Papalia’s death, Hamilton was a major dictator of policy in the streets and subsequent business in Ontario, which more than likely flown into the pockets of Buffalo, even maybe NYC.

I’m sure both Montreal and Buffalo, expected it to go on the same with Papalia dead, I think they have been thinking of a way to get it back ever since.

IMO, if all the Italians on both side of the Canadian and American border work together, like they do in Italy, they’ll have everything and anything they want. Including revenge!

[Cheech]

fascinating whats going on up here.

[johnny_scootch]

Lol. Bro you trolling now. You said you read the thing, so in Canada you should know, it's the Violis, and Luppinos.

It's not " PEOPLE THINK" Buffalo is alive, jesus you sound like Wiseguy with that same argument. Its WHY DID DOMENICO VIOLI GET CAUGHT, ON A WIRE, TALKING ABOUT MAKING UNDERBOSS OF THE BUFFALO FAMILY, at a Bonnano making ceremony?

The fact that he was present at the ceremony is evidence that he is an initiated member of LCN, so when he says he got made with Buffalo, it must be true, that much at least. Hes a relatively recently made member of a family we all thought were defunct. So the family apparently is active enough to make a new member. No one imagined this. Big question, WHY?

Put it this way, sounds like you are asking WHO made the Violis, its been documented Todaro. If you are asking, what the action in Buffalo? Who are the players now?Well, the action is in Hamilton for the Violis, and partly Quebec. That's what was in the indictments, criminal activity in Canada.

I dont blame your line of thinking, I've had a hard time believing the Bonnanos could run Montreal by remote control as well....

Like, you follow this stuff? You got the Musitanos embroiled in a situation with a company claiming to have contracts worth 110 million a MONTH, for FIVE YEARS!!! And they might not even BE made.....

The crime fa tons up there are plenty interesting....

I fully agree with this assessment. It’s a very complicated criminal landscape up there and like always with Canada the more we find out the less we seem to know.

[Stroccos]

Government denies Gerace’s motion to suppress and trial date will be set soon:

Gerace moved to suppress physical evidence seized during the January 28, 2019 searches of 9070 Michael Douglas Drive and his person,! and to suppress his statements to law enforcement on January 28, 2019. See Dkt. 14 | 68-77

...snip
For the reasons stated above and in the R&R, the Court DENIES Gerace’s motions to suppress (Dkt. 14).

The parties shall appear before this Court on July 29, 2020, at 10:00 a.m. for a status conference to set a trial date.

SO ORDERED.

Dated: July 23, 2020
Buffalo, New York

Here is the link: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16 ... -v-gerace/

Does Gerace even talk or get along with todaro sr?

[johnny_scootch]

Does Gerace even talk or get along with todaro sr?

You mean Todaro Jr. and unless there is some evidence in one of these indictments or something comes out in the court proceedings how would anyone know about their relationship unless they has inside info?

[Wiseguy]

Now, many people are of the opinion that the main criminal activity is in Canada.

Many people? A half dozen guys on this board maybe.

Main criminal activity by who? If you mean there there is more OC activity in Canada than in Buffalo, that's obviously true. But if you mean there is more Buffalo LCN activity in Canada than Buffalo, there's jack shit to prove that.

Now Wiseguy is gonna argue that the majority of the membership is in the states

That's a fact. Don't need me to argue it.

EVEN as he simultaneously argues these SAME guys are inactive and basically nonfunctional.

Correct. How are these two things mutually exclusive?

Follow along:

First, the majority of the dozen or so remaining identified members are in Buffalo. Not Canada.

Second, the majority of what activity there has been over the past 20 years has been in Buffalo. Not Canada.

Third, as we've seen with several defunct families, residual activity does not constitute a viable family.

I didn't lose you, did I?

Yet he will persist to argue against the idea that the major crimes are committed in Canada.

I don't think I've necessarily argued against that, Mr. Strawman. Again, if we're talking about the Buffalo LCN - and not Italian OC in general - the Violi bust involved major crimes. But show me how many examples of major crimes committed by the Buffalo LCN there have been over the past 20 years.

Go ahead, I'll wait.

The question is WHY, and WHY NOW? Why does LCN NEED the Buffalo branch reactivated?

Anyone "needing the Buffalo branch (family?) reactivated" is only a theory at this point.

A more accurate question would be, why did Violi need to be made (and later made underboss) of a defunct family?

Whatever the answer is to that question, several examples have been given many times over of this kind of thing happening in other defunct families. So, that - coupled with the FBI stance on the matter - should preclude people jumping to conclusions about a revitalized Buffalo LCN.

The fact that he was present at the ceremony is evidence that he is an initiated member of LCN, so when he says he got made with Buffalo, it must be true, that much at least.

Yes, that much is true.

[NickleCity]

Wiseguy, is it conjecture to assume that FBI continues to believe the Buffalo family is defunct? Do you have a current source? Or have things changed for the FBI since the March 2017 article by Dan Herbeck? Agreed that article stated:

he local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

Here is the link: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/the- ... 96091.html

Here is what has changed since that article was published:
1. November 2017, Otremens:

In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking. …Bridget M. Rohde, Acting United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York, and William F. Sweeney, Jr., Assistant Director-in-Charge, Federal Bureau of Investigation, New York Field Office (FBI), announced the charges.

Link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/me ... s-arrested

2. April 2018, Gary Loeffert replaced Cohen as FBI SAC at Buffalo field office:

And now as he settles in as the FBI’s Special Agent-in-Charge of the Buffalo Filed Office, he knows he’s happy to be back in the Niagara Region. “I’m thrilled to be home,” he said. “I’ve reconnected with family and friends, we’ve already had picnics and barbecues.”

Link: https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news/lo ... 966b9.html

3. October 2019, The Bongiovanni Indictment alleged Italian Organized Crime is active in Buffalo:

“The defendant BONGIOVANNI’s friends and associates who ere evolved in possession, use and distribution, and importation of controlled substances, included, among others individuals he believed to be members of, connected to, or associated with Italian Organized Crime (IOC) in the Western District of New York and elsewhere.”

Link: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16 ... ngiovanni/

The FBI was part of the investigative process that resulted in the Bongiovanni indictment:

The Bongiovanni indictment was the result of an investigation by Homeland Security Investigations, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Kevin Kelly; the Federal Bureau of Investigation, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Gary Loeffert;….

Here is the link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/re ... conspiracy

4. August 2019, The FBI is said to be part of the investigative process that led to the Masecchia complaint:

The complaint is the result of an investigation by Homeland Security Investigations, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Kevin Kelly; the Federal Bureau of Investigation, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Gary Loeffert; ….

Link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/wi ... explosives

5. June 2020, Superseding indictment for Masecchia & Bongiovanni which states the Buffalo crime family is an IOC group operating in Buffalo:

“‘MASECCHIA is an associate and possibly made member of the Buffalo LCN family,’ an IOC group operating in Buffalo, New York, and elsewhere.”

As evidenced above, the FBI played a role in both investigations that led to the superseding indictment that indicates an active Buffalo crime family.
Link: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17 ... ngiovanni/

6. July 2010, another new FBI SAC in Buffalo:

“The Federal Bureau of Investigation announced Stephen Belongia has been named as the special agent in charge of the Buffalo Field Office.”

Link: https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/fb ... in-buffalo

[Pogo The Clown]

This has been adressed numerous times. We have seen in Kansas City, Rochester, Scranton and Cleveland the FBI make reference to the local LCN family when they indict a member or associate years after they have declared that family defunct.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Wiseguy, is it conjecture to assume that FBI continues to believe the Buffalo family is defunct? Do you have a current source? Or have things changed for the FBI since the March 2017 article by Dan Herbeck? Agreed that article stated:

he local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

Here is the link: https://buffalonews.com/news/local/the- ... 96091.html

No, it's not conjecture. I realize you and others are hoping for a press release that will never come but the FBI has said what it's said. You don't get to use no news as news.

Here is what has changed since that article was published:
1. November 2017, Otremens:

In a coordinated operation, Canadian law enforcement authorities today arrested nine organized crime members and associates in Canada, including members of the Todaro organized crime family, who are charged with, among other crimes, narcotics trafficking. …Bridget M. Rohde, Acting United States Attorney for the Eastern District of New York, and William F. Sweeney, Jr., Assistant Director-in-Charge, Federal Bureau of Investigation, New York Field Office (FBI), announced the charges.

Link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/me ... s-arrested

Do we have any reason to not consider this case an anomaly compared to the previous two decades?

2. April 2018, Gary Loeffert replaced Cohen as FBI SAC at Buffalo field office:

And now as he settles in as the FBI’s Special Agent-in-Charge of the Buffalo Filed Office, he knows he’s happy to be back in the Niagara Region. “I’m thrilled to be home,” he said. “I’ve reconnected with family and friends, we’ve already had picnics and barbecues.”

Link: https://www.niagara-gazette.com/news/lo ... 966b9.html

And?

Loeffler hasn't said anything different, has he?

3. October 2019, The Bongiovanni Indictment alleged Italian Organized Crime is active in Buffalo:

“The defendant BONGIOVANNI’s friends and associates who ere evolved in possession, use and distribution, and importation of controlled substances, included, among others individuals he believed to be members of, connected to, or associated with Italian Organized Crime (IOC) in the Western District of New York and elsewhere.”

Link: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/16 ... ngiovanni/

The FBI was part of the investigative process that resulted in the Bongiovanni indictment:

The Bongiovanni indictment was the result of an investigation by Homeland Security Investigations, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Kevin Kelly; the Federal Bureau of Investigation, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Gary Loeffert;….

Here is the link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/re ... conspiracy

4. August 2019, The FBI is said to be part of the investigative process that led to the Masecchia complaint:

The complaint is the result of an investigation by Homeland Security Investigations, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Kevin Kelly; the Federal Bureau of Investigation, under the direction of Special Agent-in-Charge Gary Loeffert; ….

Link: https://www.justice.gov/usao-wdny/pr/wi ... explosives

5. June 2020, Superseding indictment for Masecchia & Bongiovanni which states the Buffalo crime family is an IOC group operating in Buffalo:

“‘MASECCHIA is an associate and possibly made member of the Buffalo LCN family,’ an IOC group operating in Buffalo, New York, and elsewhere.”

As evidenced above, the FBI played a role in both investigations that led to the superseding indictment that indicates an active Buffalo crime family.
Link: https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17 ... ngiovanni/

6. July 2010, another new FBI SAC in Buffalo:

“The Federal Bureau of Investigation announced Stephen Belongia has been named as the special agent in charge of the Buffalo Field Office.”

Link: https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/fb ... in-buffalo

Italian guys, connected to Buffalo or not, dealing drugs on both sides of the border. And the FBI has participated in the investigation.

And?

I get that you're hoping that enough smoke means there's fire but you do realize this doesn't necessarily equate to a formally structured, viable family right?

Even if we were to determine that the Italian OC guys mentioned were all members or associates of Buffalo, it wouldn't be that different from what we saw before the Violi bust, i.e. random cases here and there, but seemingly more guys making their own rather than as a result of a cohesive crime family.

And don't you think the feds would be the first to announce a revitalized Buffalo mob, if that were the case?

This has been adressed numerous times. We have seen in Kansas City, Rochester, Scranton and Cleveland the FBI make reference to the local LCN family when they indict a member or associate years after they have declared that family defunct.


Pogo

Yes, but it's much easier to pretend it was never said.