Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Wiseguy]

Any info from those two liars and bullshitters Giacomo Vacari and Rooster I refuse to even acknowledge. That's how much contempt I have for them. And that chart from Scarpo is laughable. 40 members still active with another 12-15 retired? In what fantasy world is this? It's like we are back on the RD forum circa 2007.

The feds haven't had Buffalo at 45 members since the late 1980s/early 1990s. By 2006 it was down to 23 members. And several have died since then. You look at the members/possible members who have died since 2006, the figure could be as low as a dozen or so now.

So, let's see. Rapidly diminishing membership? Check. No real functioning hierarchy? Check. Inconsistent and sporadic cases here and there for 20 years? Check. No longer recognized by the feds? Check.

The answer is there for objective observers who aren't looking for a certain outcome. It's really not even open for debate at this point.

I suppose, in a way, there has been progress over the years. We used to have people trying to argue families in Milwaukee and St. Louis were still around. At least now it's places like Detroit and Buffalo.

[Frank]

There's alot of action going on in Canada, so I would assume some good solid info should come out of it. It should maybe show who is with what.

[NickleCity]

Several have already been posted by Gohnjotti and Wiseguy. You've seen them but have rejected them because it is not what you want to here.


Here is a key one.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Direct from the head of the Buffalo FBI office.

The local FBI once had a large squad of agents working full time on mob cases, but the agency no longer considers the Mafia a presence in this region, according to Adam S. Cohen, special agent in charge of the Buffalo FBI office.

“Some of the individuals who were leaders of the Mafia are still around,” Cohen said. “But their organized crime activities don’t exist anymore. Some of them have legitimate businesses that we know of.”

Though several local men succeeded Magaddino as leaders following his death, no one leads what is left of the mob in this region, Cohen said. Several retired state and local law enforcement officials who specialized in Mafia investigations agreed.

Today, both Cohen and Coppola estimate that there are no more than a handful of surviving mob members in the area, with no viable organization to unite them, and no leader.

https://buffalonews.com/2017/03/19/fbi- ... perations/

Yeah I am aware of these quotes from this article. It thought you had an actual FBI report showing Falzone was never acting boss. I was confused because you said it was just internet posters who said Falzone took over after Todaro stepped down in 2006, and then said the NF Reporter Mike Hudson made up the FBI quote quote about Falzone in his 2012 or 13 article. I guess I just figured you had actual FBI documents. Hudson quotes the FBI just as Herbeck does. I'm not sure why you dismissed what Hudson wrote about Falzone. Any particular reason you don't find Mike Hudson's articles credible? Do you have the internet posters who would have influenced his article. The one you posted was from 2017, I think after the Otremmens project came out.

I am aware that I have dismissed Coppola because in '97 he said Buffalo had no leadership, no structure, no power and therefore could not have been behind the Johnny Pops Hit. As Wiseguy admitted, that couldn't have been the case then.

I was giving up on thoughts that Buffalo was active after the March 2017 Herbeck article, then came the Otremmens project articles indicating Todaro crime family arrests, along with law encorcment documents from the FBI & RCMP indicating Todaro crime family arrests, followed by Pete Edwards blog where he challenges recent media reports saying the Buffalo Mob is dead. (In my opinion he is challenging Herbeck's article "Mob is all but dead in WNY" and the Canadian piece "Last Rites for Queen City Mafia" that extensively quotes Herbeck.) And then his article that succinctly states Buffalo has influence in the Southern Ontario underworld. Finally, throw in O'Riley's article that assumes their is a Buffalo mob and indicates their are rumors they had influence or say in the Musitano hit. Oh, and don't forget Sergi's article that indicates the Buffalo crime "syndicate" with base in Buffalo is involved in drug trafficking.

@Wiseguy, I know there has been a history of people trying to prove different mob family exists. I think what separates me from past poster is there was not a significant number of articles written about these crime family then they wanted to prove exited. Hence enhancing or proving the opinion that these families are dead. But in the last year--a significant number of articles have come to the forefront about the Todaro/Buffalo crime family.

Yeah, I did come to these boards late--so I don't have the benefit of that history, but it also gives me fresh eyes.

Also, @Pogo, not trying to be rude, but I posted a number of articles related to the city of Buffalo's resurgence in response to what you said about he city. If you can't recognize those a legitimate evidence Buffalo is not a dead city anymore, even if it is not your type of city, I think you loose some credibility--like you are aren't willing to consider facts, like you accuse me of.

[gohnjotti]

A bit late here, but let's not forget that Ron Fino has also contradicted himself on whether the Buffalo family is active. So that right there throws away any credibility he might have. And even if he didn't contradict himself - as Pogo pointed out and I have pointed out time and time again in the past - Fino was exposed as an informer in 1990. 28 years ago. To suggest that he still has inside knowledge of the streets requires a lot of mental gymnastics.

Why should a mob associate who flipped in 1990 be expected to know the inner workings of a crime family 28 years later - inner workings that all aspects of law enforcement are also apparently unaware of.

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah I am aware of these quotes from this article. It thought you had an actual FBI report showing Falzone was never acting boss. I was confused because you said it was just internet posters who said Falzone took over after Todaro stepped down in 2006, and then said the NF Reporter Mike Hudson made up the FBI quote quote about Falzone in his 2012 or 13 article. I guess I just figured you had actual FBI documents. Hudson quotes the FBI just as Herbeck does. I'm not sure why you dismissed what Hudson wrote about Falzone. Any particular reason you don't find Mike Hudson's articles credible? Do you have the internet posters who would have influenced his article. The one you posted was from 2017, I think after the Otremmens project came out.

Because it was a generic "the Feds say". A lot of things on the internet claim that and then go on to contradict what the Feds actually say. It is telling that is only place saying Falcone was the Boss. The article I posted directly quotes the head of the Buffalo office saying the family was dead and had been for a while. We also know the Feds no longer recognized a family at the time that article claiming Falzone was boss was written. In addition he was listed as a Soldier in the 2006 FBI chart. And I could have sworn either Ghonjotti or Wiseguy posted an article direclty quoting LE that Todaro was the last boss of the family.


Here is an article from the time of his death. Not only is he not listed as the Boss but it is pretty clear that he had been inative for several years before his death.

Falzone had passed from public view more than 20 years before he died. His thick Buffalo News file contains not a single story after 1996.

https://buffalonews.com/2016/11/15/leon ... 10-probes/


It also looks like "The Calzone" nickname is another internet fabrication. Originating on The Gangster Report site.

Also, @Pogo, not trying to be rude, but I posted a number of articles related to the city of Buffalo's resurgence in response to what you said about he city. If you can't recognize those a legitimate evidence Buffalo is not a dead city anymore, even if it is not your type of city, I think you loose some credibility--like you are aren't willing to consider facts, like you accuse me of.

Doesn't matter what some fluff articles trying to prop up the city say. The facts are the facts. A quick search shows that the city has been hemorhaging poeple for 60 years and is now over half non-White. It is one of the poorest cities in the country with 1/3 of the population living in poverty. It is also extremely crime ridden (a quick check shows it is the 15th worst in the country in terms of crime). In short Buffalo is now a 3rd world city. It is dead. Really sad to see but that is reality.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

@Wiseguy, I know there has been a history of people trying to prove different mob family exists. I think what separates me from past poster is there was not a significant number of articles written about these crime family then they wanted to prove exited. Hence enhancing or proving the opinion that these families are dead. But in the last year--a significant number of articles have come to the forefront about the Todaro/Buffalo crime family.

And what are those articles over the last year based on? The November 2017 drug bust where a couple Buffalo guys were among those charged in what was mainly a Canadian bust. That's it. And so much of those articles are vague claims and supposition.

Yet, from this one case we're supposed to ignore the previous 20 years and rethink the Buffalo mob might be alive and ticking after all?

Again, while there may be some members and associates here and there still involved in crime, we don't see a viable family with a functioning hierarchy anymore.

And I could have sworn either Ghonjotti or Wiseguy posted an article direclty quoting LE that Todaro was the last boss of the family.

According to the FBI, Todaro was Buffalo’s last official don, living his last days out in semi-retirement and leaving the day-to-day operation of the criminal enterprise to others.

http://niagarafallsreporter.com/Stories ... odaro.html

[johnny_scootch]

Not to knock this topic off track but I'm reading that hammerhead Andy Petepiece's book on the Commission and it says (forgive me if this has been said before) that during the feud with the Buccellato's Stefano Magaddino had temporarily fled NY to Chicago and it was there that he was made by Anthony D'Andrea. It was picked up on an illegal bug the FBI had planted in his funeral home office in the early 1960's.

[Confederate]

Doesn't matter what some fluff articles trying to prop up the city say. The facts are the facts. A quick search shows that the city has been hemorrhaging people for 60 years and is now over half non-White. It is one of the poorest cities in the country with 1/3 of the population living in poverty. It is also extremely crime ridden (a quick check shows it is the 15th worst in the country in terms of crime). In short Buffalo is now a 3rd world city. It is dead. Really sad to see but that is reality.
Pogo

Buffalo was a little less than 46% White 9 YEARS AGO. It is much less than that now. In addition, the crime and poverty statistics are accurate. Another City basically ruined by the Democrats and their "forced" diversity and "welfare" ideology in order to win votes. What a shame.

[faffy444]

Magaddino was made in Chicago in 1919 I believe. wasn't it Aiello who made him rather than D'Andrea though?

[NickleCity]

Doesn't matter what some fluff articles trying to prop up the city say. The facts are the facts. A quick search shows that the city has been hemorrhaging people for 60 years and is now over half non-White. It is one of the poorest cities in the country with 1/3 of the population living in poverty. It is also extremely crime ridden (a quick check shows it is the 15th worst in the country in terms of crime). In short Buffalo is now a 3rd world city. It is dead. Really sad to see but that is reality.
Pogo

Buffalo was a little less than 46% White 9 YEARS AGO. It is much less than that now. In addition, the crime and poverty statistics are accurate. Another City basically ruined by the Democrats and their "forced" diversity and "welfare" ideology in order to win votes. What a shame.

Granted their is still a lot of room for improvement, but the turnaround in the last 8 years has been significant. As I posted before people are moving back to the city in several downtown, near downtown, and north-side neighborhoods. West side is growing with immigrants. Southside has been much more stable than the rest of the city over the years. The Eastside is still the problem area that is seeing significant declines. I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much, but overall the region stopped the hemorrhaging and begun to bounce back:

The Buffalo News
Latest population data shows Erie County finally holding its own
Sandra Tan | Published March 22, 2018 | Updated March 23, 2018

Erie County's population held steady last year and has grown by more than 6,000 residents since 2010, according to the latest estimate released Thursday by the U.S. Census Bureau.

As of July 1, 2017, Erie County's population was estimated at 925,528 – 2,412 more than the year before.

Though the county's population has grown by less than 1 percent over the past six years, County Executive Mark Poloncarz said the census figures show that the region's long and steep population decline is finally moving back in the other direction. Both the census figures and the latest job-growth report for the region point to a healthy economy, he said.

"We would not have had that growth if the economy was weak," he said. "When you compare us to a comparable group of cities and counties in the Northeast and Midwest, we're growing and they're not."

Niagara County showed a negligible drop in population from a year ago, but a deeper loss of 2.4 percent of its population – more than 5,000 people – since 2010. Most Southern Tier counties also experienced population losses from a year ago, and longer-term losses of 3 percent to 4 percent since 2010.

The Buffalo Niagara region's estimated population in 2017 was 1,136,856 – a gain of nearly 2,000 people since 2016. It remains the 51st biggest metro area in the nation for population.

The metro area's population is almost the same as it was six years ago, with growth within Erie County offsetting population erosion in other areas.

Across the state, most counties with major upstate cities showed similar trends to Erie County, with stable population figures, or incremental population growth from a year ago and since 2010.

Poloncarz pointed to other upstate counties and to places like Milwaukee, where he said population numbers are falling. The fact that Erie County has held its own means more people have a reason to stay, he said.

"You don't have population growth if you don't have an economy that can sustain it," he said.

He added that live births have been outpacing deaths in this region, and local economic development agencies and businesses have reported hiring millennials from outside the area to fill job vacancies. Prior influxes of refugees and immigrants, particularly on Buffalo's West Side, have also helped, he said, though the number of new refugees coming into the area has dropped off.

The small nudge in population growth in Erie County doesn't represent a dramatic population shift, but Poloncarz said the region has to crawl before it can walk.

"We've gotten past the crawling stage, and we're starting to walk again," he said.

About the racial demographics of the city, I am not sure where you got your numbers. Here is what the US Census Bureau reports: https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/ ... /PST040217

[willychichi]

Confederate got his numbers from Stormfront, a very reliable source.

[johnny_scootch]

Magaddino was made in Chicago in 1919 I believe. wasn't it Aiello who made him rather than D'Andrea though?

I had never seen anything relating to when or by whom he was made so that’s why I shared. This book says D’Andrea and if the year truly was 1919 it does make more sense that it was D’Andrea because he was the boss at the time not Aiello.

[faffy444]

I believe I had read in one of the Buffalo books that it was Aiello in 1919 who made Magaddino. Unfortunately, I don't remember which book.

[NickleCity]

I believe I had read in one of the Buffalo books that it was Aiello in 1919 who made Magaddino. Unfortunately, I don't remember which book.

Definitely made in Chicago...

Report of the Buffalo Office of the FBI, “BU 92-61,” Stefano Magaddino FBI file #92-2924. A note regarding electronic surveillance of Magaddino described his Jan. 21, 1965, conversation with two men: “At this time, Magaddino launches into a long, detailed discussion of the growth of the Cosa Nostra in the United States, starting when he was 17 years old. He indicates that he first became a member of the Cosa Nostra in Chicago, Illinois.”

From note 355 of Hunt, Thomas; Tona, Michael A.. DiCarlo: Buffalo's First Family of Crime - Vol. I (Kindle Locations 8162-8165). Hunt&Tona Publications. Kindle Edition. Here is the section from the book. It looks like D'Andrea was the boss that made him to me.

Stefano found work as a salesman for a Roebling Street importing firm operated by Vito and Martino Mule, also natives of Castellammare del Golfo, Sicily.[ 354] Within months of his arrival in the United States, he was formally welcomed into the American branch of the Mafia society. The induction ceremony was held in Chicago.[ 355]

The details of the induction ceremony and Magaddino’s reason for associating himself with the Chicago Mafia, so distant from his Brooklyn home, are lost to history. It seems likely that he hoped to provide some protection for himself and his fellow Castellammarese Mafiosi in Brooklyn, while also assuring the group’s independence from expansive New York-area crime bosses.

It also is possible that Magaddino observed dramatic and worrisome changes within New York’s underworld. The Manhattan-based Morello organization, already investigated for murders, counterfeiting, Black Hand extortion and bankruptcy frauds, was under constant Secret Service scrutiny by fall of 1909. Boss of bosses Giuseppe Morello and a dozen of his underlings were arrested in mid-November mid-November for counterfeiting.[ 356] At that time, a rival Mafia organization, led by Salvatore “Toto” D’Aquila, was gaining strength across the East River in Brooklyn. D’Aquila took over Morello’s boss of bosses position after Morello was convicted and sentenced to a long prison term in 1910.[ 357] The obvious volatility of New York’s Sicilian criminal society could have driven Magaddino to ally with a more stable regime.

Chicago’s Sicilian underworld chieftain at that time was the “ferocious and greatly feared”[ 358] Anthony D’Andrea. President of the Unione Siciliana fraternal order, D’Andrea had enormous clout throughout the Sicilian colonies in the U.S. and also throughout the Mafia criminal organization.[ 359]

Hunt, Thomas; Tona, Michael A.. DiCarlo: Buffalo's First Family of Crime - Vol. I (Kindle Locations 1670-1688). Hunt&Tona Publications. Kindle Edition.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

40 members in Buffalo!!??!
That would make them the 6th
largest family in the country.
Bigger than Patriarca, Philly,
DeCavs & Chicago. It doesn't
even sound right saying it.
Not a chance.