Buffalo/Ontario Mob Acitivity

[Lupara]

The only place the Buffalo family exists is on the Internet.


Pogo

Lots of rackets on the internet to make money off though...

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

I dont wanna start nothing silly, but some guys do seem to take it......almost ........PERSONAL? I dont get the reactions at all....

Who’s taking anything personal?

I simply think Buffalo existing as a powerful family exerting control over southern Ontario flies so contrary to the known facts it can aptly be characterized as Bullshit.

Nothing Personal about it.

Most logical explanation is that whatever is left of the old Buffalo mob is now active in Southern Ontario still operating under the LCN flag but with strong ties to the 'ndrangheta families.

Best explanation I have heard yet. That's what makes sense.

[Pogo The Clown]

The only place the Buffalo family exists is on the Internet.
Pogo

Say wiseguys name once and his girlfriend appears!

Well Barzini it is not the first time you've tried to hype up families on the Internet. Let me guess you have relatives in the Buffalo family as well?


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Im not saying they're lying.

You kinda are. You said it was bullshit did you not? Unless there is some other meaning of the word?

You're being cautious but if you think you or anyone else on this forum is in a better position to understand whats going on up there than Peter Edwards or the former UC officer who infiltrated their orbit you're mistaken.

We know for a 100% fact that there are active Buffalo members from that last case up there and now we have this. I'm not saying they are a huge powerful group all I'm saying is they aren't dead. It seems like you're denying that fact.

Wiseguy not here backing you up either, curious.

Sonny is correct. As is Pogo. Anyone who's looked at the collective evidence over the past 20 years can see there is no longer a viable family with a functioning hierarchy in Buffalo. The family hasn't been on any fed list of remaining families in years and the last really significant case was in 1996 with LIUNA Local 210.

Now, are there still some members and associates that are active? Sure. But we've seen the same thing in Pittsburgh and Kansas City, for example. But just because there were mob-related gambling cases in those cities in 2006 and 2010, it doesn't mean there's anything more than remnants of families no longer there.

And anyone who wants to single out a case here or an article there (that doesn't really say what they claim it does) to argue there's still a family in Buffalo isn't being objective, and wants there to be an active family there, it seems. Maybe they find the alternative boring.

And, frankly, I'm not interested in any of the "Its still there but in a different or reduced form" arguments either. If the FBI hasn't recognized a family there in years, and they would know, that should be good enough for everyone.

It's 2018, folks. There are 9-10 LCN families left. Two large ones and three mid-sized ones in New York, four small ones in New Jersey, New England, Philadelphia, and Chicago. As well as arguably one in Detroit. That's it. Elsewhere it's only remnants, to one extent or another.

The only place the Buffalo family exists is on the Internet.
Pogo

Say wiseguys name once and his girlfriend appears!

Well Barzini it is not the first time you've tried to hype up families on the Internet. Let me guess you have relatives in the Buffalo family as well?


Pogo

Oh, this guy is Barzini? Waste of time even attempting to explain things to him.

[Pogo The Clown]

Oh, this guy is Barzini? Waste of time even attempting to explain things to him.

Yep. Mr. Fresh Street Talk himself Barziniallalong. The same goof who claimed that John Riggi was no longer the Boss and that the DeCavalcante family had 90 made members, that Nick Corozzo was the real Boss, that Steve Crea was the real Boss, that Joe Cammarano Jr was the real Boss and other such gems. All heard direct from the street from all his relatives in the various families.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Oh, this guy is Barzini? Waste of time even attempting to explain things to him.

Yep. Mr. Fresh Street Talk himself Barziniallalong. The same goof who claimed that John Riggi was no longer the Boss and that the DeCavalcante family had 90 made members, that Nick Corozzo was the real Boss, that Steve Crea was the real Boss, that Joe Cammarano Jr was the real Boss and other such gems. All heard direct from the street from all his relatives in the various families.


Pogo

General rule of thumb for all on these forums:

If you find yourself agreeing with Barzini/johnny_scootch, there's at least a 95% chance you're wrong.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Oh, this guy is Barzini? Waste of time even attempting to explain things to him.

Yep. Mr. Fresh Street Talk himself Barziniallalong. The same goof who claimed that John Riggi was no longer the Boss and that the DeCavalcante family had 90 made members, that Nick Corozzo was the real Boss, that Steve Crea was the real Boss, that Joe Cammarano Jr was the real Boss and other such gems. All heard direct from the street from all his relatives in the various families.


Pogo

Oh, those old Real Deal memories just keep coming back to haunt.

[Frank]

Is there any possibility that there is a N'drangheta family in Western NY??

[Chucky]

Oh, this guy is Barzini? Waste of time even attempting to explain things to him.

Yep. Mr. Fresh Street Talk himself Barziniallalong. The same goof who claimed that John Riggi was no longer the Boss and that the DeCavalcante family had 90 made members, that Nick Corozzo was the real Boss, that Steve Crea was the real Boss, that Joe Cammarano Jr was the real Boss and other such gems. All heard direct from the street from all his relatives in the various families.


Pogo

Oh, those old Real Deal memories just keep coming back to haunt.

Corozzo won't even let guys put sambuca in their coffee.

[SonnyBlackstein]

@Pogo and Wisgeuy.

I think your attacks on johnny Scootch are unwarranted.

The guy is citing legitimate sources for his beliefs. IE a former LE officer who was undercover in the area and a renowned journalist, for his opinions.

He's entitled to legitimately believe there's an operational structure in buffalo involved, basis these sources. The fact we all disagree doesn't give you two the position to ridicule his beliefs as if they were outlandish or unjustified. He's got an opinion, and he can substantiate it.

Isnt that the basis of a good discussion on a forum?

[NickleCity]

@Pogo and Wisgeuy.

I think your attacks on johnny Scootch are unwarranted.

The guy is citing legitimate sources for his beliefs. IE a former LE officer who was undercover in the area and a renowned journalist, for his opinions.

He's entitled to legitimately believe there's an operational structure in buffalo involved, basis these sources. The fact we all disagree doesn't give you two the position to ridicule his beliefs as if they were outlandish or unjustified. He's got an opinion, and he can substantiate it.

Isnt that the basis of a good discussion on a forum?

Hear, Hear... thanks for saying this. I wanted to say something but knew it wouldn’t be received because I’ve always asserted Buffalo is active and I knew i’d just be accused of being a fan boy. BTW I appreciate your caution about there only being a couple of articles indicating Buffalo is active ... I wouldn’t change a long held position on what I perceived as only a little evidence either.

[Moscone65]

@sonnyblackstein Well said Sonny, even though you have a different opinion, atleast you respect a fair, civil, and relevant discussion/debate instead of just cracking jokes.

[Pogo The Clown]

I guess you guys missed him taking a shot at me out of nowhere up above. I have a right to respond and defend myself. Especially from attacks from a long descredited liar and bullshiter.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

@Pogo and Wisgeuy.

I think your attacks on johnny Scootch are unwarranted.

The guy is citing legitimate sources for his beliefs. IE a former LE officer who was undercover in the area and a renowned journalist, for his opinions.

He's entitled to legitimately believe there's an operational structure in buffalo involved, basis these sources. The fact we all disagree doesn't give you two the position to ridicule his beliefs as if they were outlandish or unjustified. He's got an opinion, and he can substantiate it.

Isnt that the basis of a good discussion on a forum?

Hear, Hear... thanks for saying this. I wanted to say something but knew it wouldn’t be received because I’ve always asserted Buffalo is active and I knew i’d just be accused of being a fan boy. BTW I appreciate your caution about there only being a couple of articles indicating Buffalo is active ... I wouldn’t change a long held position on what I perceived as only a little evidence either.

Nonsense.

The problem, as I said, is that you guys are focusing on on a couple points while ignoring everything else. That suggests you're looking for a certain outcome rather than allowing the collective evidence to speak for itself.

A former undercover cop makes some generalized statements in one article which seem to be based more on what has traditionally been the case in years past than currently?

Ok, I'll see that and raise you an article from 2017 where the FBI SAC of the Buffalo office said the Buffalo family no longer has a presence in the region. And I'll throw in another article from 2012 that said, according to the FBI, Todaro Sr. was the family's last official boss.

And around we go.

Or....

We can look at the fact the last significant case involving the Buffalo family was in 1996.

We can look at the fact that the last time the FBI said they still considered the Buffalo family a viable threat was in 1998 and it hasn't been on any list of remaining families since then.

We can look at he relative lack of mob cases in Buffalo over the last 20 years.

We can look at the fact the family was reported to have no more than 20 members left in 2012 and they've lost at least 5 members since then.

[NickleCity]

@wiseguy
Nonsense I commend Sonny Blackstien for being cautious about changing his position with the admittedly little bit of LE/Crime Reporter “evidence” that has come out in the last 10 months? I think that is prudent not nonsense.

Is it nonsense that I recognize more than one type of knowledge about a subect for example imperical and a priori. There is more than one type of reasoning for example inductive versus deductive. I suggest a quick study of epistemology—the study of the theories of knowledge, the types of knowledge and theories on how we know before you make an accusation that someone is nonsensical. I find it is better to use several types of reasoning and knowledge collection. Your emphasis on empirical/credentialed expert only knowledge may create defecits in your overall understanding. You should also bear in mind that this type of thinking is heavily conditioned about a modern understanding of the world and knowledge. Postmodern thinkers are coming to the forefront today as they point out the blind spots in modernism. That being said these thinkers must not react to strongly against modernism or the pendulum will swing
too far the other way and they will not recognize their own blind spots in knowledge and understanding.

So again please don’t accuse my way of thinking as nonsense. I like to balance the types of knowledge and reasoning I use to arrive at an opinion. If I used only credentialed experts I’d be right there with Sonny, you and others. I make no excuse for the fact that I listen to what some on this forum demean as “street talk.” However, I weigh this with the opinion experts and my knowledge and relationships with those to whom I speak as I consider the veracity of what is being said. I make no excuse that I use dudctive reasoning along side inductive. Just because I do not employ your method exclusively does not make mine nonsense! In my humble opinion their strength and weekness to every method of knowing.

Is it nonsense that the weight I put on the the things I’ve heard from people I know and the amount of corroboration from different people surpassed your so called experts. Well, it could be... and regularly questioned the weight I applied — I thank forums like this and users like you who constantly challenged me. There were points I had serious doubts Buffalo was active.

However, it is possible you have not put enough weight on these other types of evidences. Who knows? Time will tell. Right now it appears the experts (Edwards & Canadian LE) are catching up to the street talk am hearing.

About emperical evidence you said the last Buffalo Mob case was 1996 — Well I disagree it was November 2018. I’d say several Canadian reporters and Dept. Justice (Eastern District of NY or is it Southern —can’t remember) disagree too as they name members of the Todaro Crime Family as part of the big case and arrests.

As far as the veracity of Herbeck saying the Mob is all but dead in WNY. I don’t weigh him very high. Why? He misrepresented Ron Fino. Being a closed forum I will say we have recently PM’d and he definitely believes Buffalo is active. He hasn’t changed his position since he wrote the Buffalo News in 2012 after thei article about him being the inside guy. Don’t believe I’ve ones him? Do a google search and you will find a video of him indicating Buffalo is active and showing his continuity of thought on the topic — this video interview takes place after the March Herbeck piece. Herbeck misrepresenting Ron... if he will do that, he could misrepresent the FBI field office in Buffalo.

It is interesting how Edwards put it on his blog: The Buffalo Mob is not dead, despite recent media reports. What media report do you think he is referencing? Money is on the Herbeck piece. Sounds like a shot over the bow to me...

Is this nonsense? Absolutely not. It reasoned. Maybe my reasoning is right, maybe it’s wrong. Time will tell. But it is not nonsense.