Chicago Outfit-Related Murders 1970's

[Snakes]

Yeah, Pascente was another associate who said he wasn't made. Obviously some people thought he was because Wacks testified to that effect. I'm hopefully getting some documents soon that could clear this up.

[Pete]

I agree that Cozzo could have been made later. I know some people I can ask. By the way, here's another source who says Cozzo wasn't made, at least during that time period: https://books.google.com/books?id=ey3FC ... 22&f=false

Yeah early 70's I'm sure he wasn't. What's interesting is both of the ceremonies we know about no members from grand were made. Maybe it had something to do with they weren't gonna make anyone from the crew while joey was away. I couldn't say but almost certainly he was made at some point. He could have been acting capo with made status while not actually made at that point but was made later. There was something similar in ny I think gotti was acting capo before he was made. There's a bunch of possible different scenarios. It's debatable if joey even went through a ceremony so he may not have been into getting his guys made but at the end of the day he was made when or how is what we don't know

[Frank]

Antiliar, you have wrong information. Snakes is correct.
Reference: United States versus International Brotherhood of Teamsters dated 7/12/1990
On page 40 of said Government Complaint against Senese, Talarico & Cozzo: Jimmy Cozzo is listed as a "made member" of Chicago La Cosa Nostra and is Joey Lombardo's right hand man and was the acting Boss of the Grand Avenue Crew when Lombardo was away.

Not all government docs are accurate, and to blindly accept everything in them is to have blind faith that's contradicted by reality. How many gov docs claimed that Ferriola was the top boss of the Outfit, only to be corrected later that he wasn't? In the Commission case, Fat Tony Salerno was the Genovese boss, then in a later case he wasn't in the same time period. The feds relied on people like Red Wemette, Frank Rosenthal and others for their information. I believe Red in this case since he knew first hand.

Well, okay. You believe Red Wemette and I'll believe the Government Complaint. Some of these informants have conflicting OPINIONS.
Also, you don't know for sure if Joe Ferriola WASN'T the top Boss FOR A VERY SHORT WHILE before Carlisi took over that duty.
He could have been the top boss for maybe 1 year before he got sick. Don't tell me that is impossible.

I would say we know for sure ferriola wasn't boss. Both calabrese and scarpelli said carlisi took over for aiuppa. Calabrese was very clear that ferriola wasn't even a capo. No ones word has more weight than two made guys. Doesn't get much more clear than that does it?

When Aiuppa and company went to prison the feds obviously had no idea who was boss. Somehow they deducted wrongly that it was Ferriola. Ferriola had a position, but nobody knows what it was called. I've seen more than once that he was in charge of gambling. So maybe he had a title of street boss. Not in the sense of street or acting boss of the whole Family. Didn't Marino and before him Delaurentis have that title for being in charge of Lake County. It was like area boss or street boss. Ferriola obviously had some sort of position of authority, but was never boss of the entire Outfit. Also those titles might not have been used by the Outfit, Maybe just titles the feds created.

[Pete]

Antiliar, you have wrong information. Snakes is correct.
Reference: United States versus International Brotherhood of Teamsters dated 7/12/1990
On page 40 of said Government Complaint against Senese, Talarico & Cozzo: Jimmy Cozzo is listed as a "made member" of Chicago La Cosa Nostra and is Joey Lombardo's right hand man and was the acting Boss of the Grand Avenue Crew when Lombardo was away.

Not all government docs are accurate, and to blindly accept everything in them is to have blind faith that's contradicted by reality. How many gov docs claimed that Ferriola was the top boss of the Outfit, only to be corrected later that he wasn't? In the Commission case, Fat Tony Salerno was the Genovese boss, then in a later case he wasn't in the same time period. The feds relied on people like Red Wemette, Frank Rosenthal and others for their information. I believe Red in this case since he knew first hand.

Well, okay. You believe Red Wemette and I'll believe the Government Complaint. Some of these informants have conflicting OPINIONS.
Also, you don't know for sure if Joe Ferriola WASN'T the top Boss FOR A VERY SHORT WHILE before Carlisi took over that duty.
He could have been the top boss for maybe 1 year before he got sick. Don't tell me that is impossible.

I would say we know for sure ferriola wasn't boss. Both calabrese and scarpelli said carlisi took over for aiuppa. Calabrese was very clear that ferriola wasn't even a capo. No ones word has more weight than two made guys. Doesn't get much more clear than that does it?

When Aiuppa and company went to prison the feds obviously had no idea who was boss. Somehow they deducted wrongly that it was Ferriola. Ferriola had a position, but nobody knows what it was called. I've seen more than once that he was in charge of gambling. So maybe he had a title of street boss. Not in the sense of street or acting boss of the whole Family. Didn't Marino and before him Delaurentis have that title for being in charge of Lake County. It was like area boss or street boss. Ferriola obviously had some sort of position of authority, but was never boss of the entire Outfit. Also those titles might not have been used by the Outfit, Maybe just titles the feds created.

Well I think the Feds saw aiuppa going to prison and saw ferriola who had been a top guy for a long time building a mansion and taking meetings and figured he was the boss. But he was having meetings with carlisi and they assumed it was ferriola who was boss but it was actually the other way around. If you listen to the wiretaps jimmy marcello calls infelise to set up the meeting. Infelise then calls ferriola with the date time and place of meeting. This was 86. That shows who has power over the other one as ferriola is being told when and where and he's doing it instead of the other way around. It's a little thing but it shows who's calling the shots

[Frank]

Antiliar, you have wrong information. Snakes is correct.
Reference: United States versus International Brotherhood of Teamsters dated 7/12/1990
On page 40 of said Government Complaint against Senese, Talarico & Cozzo: Jimmy Cozzo is listed as a "made member" of Chicago La Cosa Nostra and is Joey Lombardo's right hand man and was the acting Boss of the Grand Avenue Crew when Lombardo was away.

Not all government docs are accurate, and to blindly accept everything in them is to have blind faith that's contradicted by reality. How many gov docs claimed that Ferriola was the top boss of the Outfit, only to be corrected later that he wasn't? In the Commission case, Fat Tony Salerno was the Genovese boss, then in a later case he wasn't in the same time period. The feds relied on people like Red Wemette, Frank Rosenthal and others for their information. I believe Red in this case since he knew first hand.

Well, okay. You believe Red Wemette and I'll believe the Government Complaint. Some of these informants have conflicting OPINIONS.
Also, you don't know for sure if Joe Ferriola WASN'T the top Boss FOR A VERY SHORT WHILE before Carlisi took over that duty.
He could have been the top boss for maybe 1 year before he got sick. Don't tell me that is impossible.

I would say we know for sure ferriola wasn't boss. Both calabrese and scarpelli said carlisi took over for aiuppa. Calabrese was very clear that ferriola wasn't even a capo. No ones word has more weight than two made guys. Doesn't get much more clear than that does it?

When Aiuppa and company went to prison the feds obviously had no idea who was boss. Somehow they deducted wrongly that it was Ferriola. Ferriola had a position, but nobody knows what it was called. I've seen more than once that he was in charge of gambling. So maybe he had a title of street boss. Not in the sense of street or acting boss of the whole Family. Didn't Marino and before him Delaurentis have that title for being in charge of Lake County. It was like area boss or street boss. Ferriola obviously had some sort of position of authority, but was never boss of the entire Outfit. Also those titles might not have been used by the Outfit, Maybe just titles the feds created.

Well I think the Feds saw aiuppa going to prison and saw ferriola who had been a top guy for a long time building a mansion and taking meetings and figured he was the boss. But he was having meetings with carlisi and they assumed it was ferriola who was boss but it was actually the other way around. If you listen to the wiretaps jimmy marcello calls infelise to set up the meeting. Infelise then calls ferriola with the date time and place of meeting. This was 86. That shows who has power over the other one as ferriola is being told when and where and he's doing it instead of the other way around. It's a little thing but it shows who's calling the shots

Yes Pete I agree with you. That's an excellent piece of information.

[Pete]

The wiretaps I'm referencing are here https://web.archive.org/web/20120226031 ... wingNotice. The ones that say infelise, marcello, and ferriola. As you know marcello was carlisis right hand man and set up and drove him to all his meetings

[Antiliar]

Antiliar, you have wrong information. Snakes is correct.
Reference: United States versus International Brotherhood of Teamsters dated 7/12/1990
On page 40 of said Government Complaint against Senese, Talarico & Cozzo: Jimmy Cozzo is listed as a "made member" of Chicago La Cosa Nostra and is Joey Lombardo's right hand man and was the acting Boss of the Grand Avenue Crew when Lombardo was away.

Not all government docs are accurate, and to blindly accept everything in them is to have blind faith that's contradicted by reality. How many gov docs claimed that Ferriola was the top boss of the Outfit, only to be corrected later that he wasn't? In the Commission case, Fat Tony Salerno was the Genovese boss, then in a later case he wasn't in the same time period. The feds relied on people like Red Wemette, Frank Rosenthal and others for their information. I believe Red in this case since he knew first hand.

Well, okay. You believe Red Wemette and I'll believe the Government Complaint. Some of these informants have conflicting OPINIONS.
Also, you don't know for sure if Joe Ferriola WASN'T the top Boss FOR A VERY SHORT WHILE before Carlisi took over that duty.
He could have been the top boss for maybe 1 year before he got sick. Don't tell me that is impossible.

You might like reading this petition to the Supreme Court, especially page 8: https://www.cocklelegalbriefs.com/wp-co ... rtin-I.pdf

[Pete]

Antiliar, you have wrong information. Snakes is correct.
Reference: United States versus International Brotherhood of Teamsters dated 7/12/1990
On page 40 of said Government Complaint against Senese, Talarico & Cozzo: Jimmy Cozzo is listed as a "made member" of Chicago La Cosa Nostra and is Joey Lombardo's right hand man and was the acting Boss of the Grand Avenue Crew when Lombardo was away.

Not all government docs are accurate, and to blindly accept everything in them is to have blind faith that's contradicted by reality. How many gov docs claimed that Ferriola was the top boss of the Outfit, only to be corrected later that he wasn't? In the Commission case, Fat Tony Salerno was the Genovese boss, then in a later case he wasn't in the same time period. The feds relied on people like Red Wemette, Frank Rosenthal and others for their information. I believe Red in this case since he knew first hand.

Well, okay. You believe Red Wemette and I'll believe the Government Complaint. Some of these informants have conflicting OPINIONS.
Also, you don't know for sure if Joe Ferriola WASN'T the top Boss FOR A VERY SHORT WHILE before Carlisi took over that duty.
He could have been the top boss for maybe 1 year before he got sick. Don't tell me that is impossible.

You might like reading this petition to the Supreme Court, especially page 8: https://www.cocklelegalbriefs.com/wp-co ... rtin-I.pdf

The only thing I don't like about that is it says marcello was carlisis underboss when it was difronzo. Unless of course they are using that term to mean carlisis second in command which is different than overall underboss. According to nick calabrese, jimmy became capo of carlisis old crew in 86 when he became boss

[Antiliar]

Yes, there are some mistakes in the petition and that's one of them. Underboss in that example was used generically as top lieutenant, although DiFronzo was the overall Outfit underboss. It's like the "personal underboss" that "The Don" used to use on Fosco's site.
A lot of these indictments, briefs and petitions don't use titles and language as precisely as we do, or Outfit members themselves do.

[Confederate]

Yes, there are some mistakes in the petition and that's one of them. Underboss in that example was used generically as top lieutenant, although DiFronzo was the overall Outfit underboss. It's like the "personal underboss" that "The Don" used to use on Fosco's site.
A lot of these indictments, briefs and petitions don't use titles and language as precisely as we do, or Outfit members themselves do.

Okay, I always agreed that Carlisi was the Top Boss. I just didn't know exactly WHAT YEAR that happened. As Pete stated, the Petition used the word "underboss" loosely giving the impression that Marcello was the underboss of the entire Outfit.

[Antiliar]

It would have been around the time Aiuppa and Cerone were convicted together, in January 1986. Their successors were the capos of their old crews, Carlisi in the Melrose Park/Cicero Crew, and DiFronzo in the Elmwood Park Crew, which makes perfect sense.

[Villain]

In addition this is what I have on Eboli in short sentences...

During the early 60's the nucleus of all of Sam Battaglia’s vice operations was composed of five clubs that were located in hoodlum-dominated Melrose Park. Now in the position as area boss, except gambling and loan sharking, Battaglia also operated several other illegal enterprises including extortion, burglary rings and narcotics. He had a quite rough crew of enforcers and money makers, including Phil Alderisio, Albert Frabotta, Charles Nicoletti,Rocco Pranno, Rocco Salvatore, Joe Rocco and Battaglia's brother Joseph. By looking at all of these big names in the Outfit it seemed like Battaglia was one among equals, but in reality he was a little bit more equal than the others because all of these high profile gangsters referred to other people in Battaglia’s name as “the old man wants to see you”. So according to my opinion, Battaglia was the “chief of staff”.

Rocco Pranno was an individual who operated for Battaglia in Stone Park,Franklin Park and Northlake areas, and was known for his involvement in vending machines, extortion and large scale of loan sharking operations. By the mid 60's, Pranno's and Battaglia's guy in the Northlake area was one Joe Amabile.

In Franklin Park, Pranno also oversaw many vending and pinball machine operations with the help of three ruthless enforcers, Sam Ariola, Guy Cervone and Louis Eboli. One day, two men were caught cheating on a pinball machine in a tavern and were picked up by River Grove policemen. In the police station, the two cheaters were subsequently turned over to Ariola, Cerovone and Eboli by the cops. So the two cheaters were taken to a Franklin Park warehouse and were viciously beaten with baseball bats.

Until 1967 when Battaglia, Pranno and Amabile were all in jail, the former boss Battaglia didn’t relinquish his power as the old boss of the Melrose Park area because he still had very important people, like Alderisio, Nicoletti and Salvatore, on the streets of Chicago. So to avoid any further conflicts, Battaglia made a deal that his brother would be his personal overseer only of the Melrose Park rackets. Joseph Battaglia, the bow-legged brother, became also the main fixer in the Melrose Park area because of his previous political connections. He was always backed by Nicoletti, who in reality was the real boss of Melrose Park, and the up and coming mobster Louis Eboli and together they controlled the Melrose Park politics and rackets. Joseph held meetings on daily basis at a tavern which was near the Melrose Park City Hall with suburban officials and his Outfit associates from his brother’s old crew, such as Nicoletti, Eboli, Joe Rocco, Tony Padavonia and Patsy Clementi. From there they masterminded the day to day affairs with permissions from their "headquarters" which was now located in the Cook County jail, meaning the imprisoned Sam Battaglia. Their main messenger was an attorney by the name of Barney Bruno who was the courier that carried instructions and messages to Battaglia and the other way around. Since Amabile was sent to prison, Louis Eboli took the position as supervisor in Stone Park and Northlake.

In a Northwest Side restaurant in August, 1972, Paul Ricca and Tony Accardo met on a dinner (this was one month before Ricca was sent to hospital and later died), and while discussing a couple Mafia commission problems, they also recalled the murder of another old friend of the national mob commission days, Tommy Eboli, who was also a victim of the East Coast warfare one month earlier or on July 16, 1972. They even discussed Eboli’s partner and their long time friend, Louie DeChiaro who was in charge of looking after Eboli’s sons Thomas Jr. and Louis. They discussed the situation of their dead father in New York, and that DeChiaro was walking the streets of Chicago in the company of two bodyguards. But according to the conversation, Accardo and Ricca were in no mood to permit similar indiscretions in Chicago so they allegedly assured DeChiaro and the Eboli brothers that nothing was going to happen to them.

[Villain]

So after reading this, is it possible that in 1973 Aiuppa brought his old Cicero crew to the MP area, while Nicoletti already became the underboss and some of the old members from that same territory transferred to the Grand Av crew, and Eboli remained the main overseer of Pranno's old territory but now as a member of the Grand Av group and was later somehow direct with the boss, meaning Aiuppa? Or maybe he became a member of the Aiuppa's new MP crew? To me both ways sound quite reasonable since the most important thing is that usually during the old days when a guy was placed as an overseer of some large territory under one capo, then that same guy was considered a made member, unless he was a non-Italian or was about to be made soon enough...not taking sides or anything just saying what I managed to gather from my own info, meaning if Eboli became some sort of an operator of a larger territory since the late 60's, than he had enough time to be possibly groomed for a higher position until mid 80's, especially when his captain went to prison

[Villain]

Interesting convo between Jack Cerone, Dave Yaras and one "Pete" (99% Pete Gushi) and also one "unknown" individual who in turn it came out to be Turk Torello. They talk about the planning of the murder of an individual only known as "Frank" and they also talk about some past hits and tortures: (there are at least 9 or 10 pages of conversation) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 5&tab=page

[Snakes]

Interesting convo between Jack Cerone, Dave Yaras and one "Pete" (99% Pete Gushi) and also one "unknown" individual who in turn it came out to be Turk Torello. They talk about the planning of the murder of an individual only known as "Frank" and they also talk about some past hits and tortures: (there are at least 9 or 10 pages of conversation) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 5&tab=page

Frank Esposito is the name of the guy they were planning to murder.