Transcript of Patriarca and Bianco

[B.]

This is from several months after the Zerilli / Patriarca conversation I posted, this one being from June 1963. Nicky Bianco, originally with New England, is at this time a member of the Profaci family and visiting his old friend Ray Patriarca, boss of New England.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=141808

- Bianco complains that "they hit our guy, a legitimate guy, had a business, never had nothing, good family, had a brother, a doctor". Anyone know of any Profaci members / associates killed in late 1962 or January 1963 that could fit this? Says "they hit our businessman, so we want to hit their business friends who is only fair." Goes on to say "we don't want to hit someone who has a family necessarily." Hard to say if he means someone who has a wife and children, or someone who has a mob family affiliation. Could be about associates involved in legit businesses with each faction, not necessarily members.

- In the same breath as the above, he mentions a "Joe Colasso" (ph) who is "one of the men" and "Jackie"

- Says "Tom's men are always infested with these guys and they protect them." Seems to be saying that Lucchese members are close to the Gallos and aiding them. Would go along with the belief that Tommy Lucchese and Carlo Gambino supported or even encouraged the Gallos.

- Bianco tells Patriarca that he is consulting with him because Patriarca's family is not involved and Bianco feels that he can't talk to anybody in the Profaci family like he can with Patriarca. He says that he is asking Patriarca for advice personally, that it has nothing to do with Patriarca's family.

- Bianco talks about being arrested and let out on 15k bail. He then says it was unbelievable that 28 bullets were fired from an M1. Says "we stopped him with the bullets". The intended victim survived and ended up blind, with a "broken mouth", shot through the hand, shoulder, and with a punctured lung. Says "we're gonna kill him anyway." Was Bianco arrested for an attempted murder or was his arrest unrelated? I honestly know little about the timeline and events of the Gallo war. Anyone know who the victim was?

- Someone went to go pick Junior (Persico) up, but "Arthur" LNU killed the guy "because he wanted to kill the two of them".

- Bianco talks about how they didn't want to kill "Jerry Batbeach" (John Oddo) but wanted to "give him a scare" so they fired over his head. They then sent word that they didn't want to kill him. This attempt on John Oddo has been documented in other places.

- He says that Charlie LoCicero "is the guy that we put in this business" and seems to mean that LoCicero is a messenger between the two factions, with LoCicero bringing a message from Larry Gallo. Scarpa had suspected LoCicero of playing both sides in his files. Bianco says that LoCicero is very close with "Carlo" (Gambino probably) and how if the Profaci family's problems are going to get straightened out, he expects Carlo will proposition LoCicero to do it. Bianco doesn't trust LoCicero, but says Larry Gallo trusts him (LoCicero).

- Says "there can't be no peace with this guy" (not sure if he means Gallo or LoCicero) and that "he'll wind up in Providence for 5 years"

- Someone named "Freddy, this Cozeteo" (ph) had a fight on President street 2 years earlier (1961). He says they weren't at war, though. Not sure if he is talking about two separate people named "Freddy" and "Cozeteo", or if it's one name, i.e. "Freddy Cozeteo". If it's the latter, it could be Fred Clemenza? Maybe someone knows more about this.

- Persico was partners with someone called "Frankie Martin" and the two were frequently seen together. Bianco met with "Martin" and gave him immunity. He and Martin discussed a "kid" who Martin believed Bianco wanted to kill and that Bianco's faction was going to be taking over businesses on the "outside". There was apparently an attempted murder of someone (maybe Martin) where he ran out of his house and jumped a neighbor's fence and into another house.

- Bianco says that Carlo Gambino's men are supporting the Gallos financially and protecting them. Says that Gallos men have been seen with men believed to be under Carlo Gambino, though he says they may just be associates and not "friends of ours". He says they "didn't do any damage" or "physical work", though, maybe meaning these Gambino associates didn't help the Gallos with any violence. Bianco goes on to say that "that beef is all straightened out" and there "won't be no jails". Seems to be saying nobody will be arrested but not clear what it's about. He says they have nothing to worry about because 2 cops committed felonies and they have them "dead to rights". Maybe he means the cops have no credibility because they committed felonies, or he is saying they are blackmailing the cops.

- Bianco says Charlie LoCicero has "got a Sicilian two times" (?) and that he doesn't like him because LoCicero is a friend of Carlo Gambino's. Says "those guys are so crude". Seems to be saying he doesn't like the old Sicilians like LoCicero and Gambino. However, Patriarca tells Bianco he shouldn't curse those guys and should be nice to them in order to get what he wants. Patriarca says "We're in trouble with ourselves, we're not in trouble with Carlo. Now we respect Carlo and Carlo respects us." Seems to be saying that if Bianco's faction shows respect to Gambino, Gambino will show respect to them and that they shouldn't blame Carlo for the Profaci family's internal problems.

- Bianco says his people had discussed the family's problems with "outside guys" named "Pete", "Monks" (ph), and his compare "Tunnel Sam".

- LoCicero tried to get 200k from Bianco's faction in order to make peace.

- Bianco claims that "Mayawka" (Joe Magliocco) told LoCiccero "Don't you understand, over here I want a war, I don't want peace". LoCicero then had Bianco's people try to kill "Tony Mayawka" (Anthony Magliocco) and they staked out Tony Magliocco's neighborhood. However he says that you couldn't even get close to the guy in his own neighborhood.

- Patriarca says he will be visiting New York in the next week and will meet with Tommy Brown to try to determine if an outside family is meddling in the Profaci's affairs. Patriarca seems to believe that Carlo Gambino would not do that, but it sounds like he might believe that Lucchese is.

- Patriarca's plan is to meet with Bianco again in 10 days. He says that if things get too hot in NYC, Bianco can come back to New England and Patriarca will "save" him. He might be saying that if the Profaci situation gets worse, Bianco can return to New England and I assume re-join Patriarca's family. As we know, this ended up happening some years down the road.

- Patriarca mocks the "New York group" for being glamorous and "wining and dining". Not sure if this is about the NY families in general or just Gambino / Lucchese. He also says he is happy to have "five good men" and "money" rather than 200 "no good" individuals. Patriarca is saying he is happy with his small family in New England and wouldn't want a large family in NY, especially since they're all for the "same cause" at the end of the day (Cosa Nostra).

- Despite his earlier comments, Patriarca suggests Biano approach Carlo Gambino and ask "what did we do to you?" and inquire about why his men have been associating so closely with the Gallos. He refers to a "Tommy Casegas" (ph) who grew up with Carlo. Also says that he should find out if Carlo Gambino is "angling" and states that Gambino is a good businessman.

- Bianco says that Larry Gallo knows that they know he was in touch with "them" (Lucchese and Gambino). Patriarca seems to think that LoCicero brought Gallo to meet with Gambino and Lucchese. He tells Nick to find more out about LoCicero (I guess with regards to this situation) and to pass this info to Patriarca through Nick's brother Frankie.

- Patriarca continues to insist that Bianco be "nice" toward people like LoCicero (and I assume Lucchese / Gambino) but that if LoCicero is not nice in return, to not talk with him. Bianco says that LoCicero has offered money to him but Bianco does not trust him and considers LoCicero "treacherous". Patriarca tells Bianco to let LoCicero come to him, not to go to him.

- Bianco seems to have been involved in getting a patent on a silencer. Patriarca talks about Jiggs (Forlano) coming up from Miami and putting silencers on snubnoses and .38s.

- Bianco talks about LE and getting caught on wiretaps (haha). He talks about how if you carry a weapon down the street, the cops can't legally search you. Says if you are driving, they can say you ran a red light and search you.

- Bianco says that they will be calling for Charlie LoCicero meet them "tomorrow", but he doesn't believe he'll come in. Bianco will update Patriarca on this, while Patriarca will update Bianco after he meets with Tommy Brown. Patriarca will send a message through Frankie Bianco that says simple "yes" or "no" to indicate how the meeting goes.

- Patriarca seems to be saying he will ask for other bosses' feedback on something (the new boss maybe), and how he (Patriarca) had met with Magliocco at an earlier time because Magliocco had named himself boss without taking a vote.

- There was an issue at Hancock Raceway and with a guy named Joe "Kirk" Krikorian. Krikorian was out on bail and used FNU Rizzo to front for him "and then two or three guys got pinched." I see in other info that Krikorian was a Patriarca associate involved in the casino industry.

- Bianco is supposed to meet with Carlo Gambino after attempting to meet with LoCicero.

- Patriarca says that five or six months earlier, Tommy Luccheses claimed that none of the other families were helping anyone in the Profaci family or sending them money. Lucchese also apparently said "We spent all the money during the war" and that "them (obscene' individuals aren't going no place" because they didn't spend any of their own money.

- Bianco mentions a group is under someone called "Skip Hagrel" (ph). From context, could be part of the Lucchese family.

- Patriarca tells Bianco to be careful of Charlie (LoCicero) and "Louie".

- At the end, Patriarca says they want to "keep the ones" they want and "don't try..." before getting cut off and finally saying "then it's not an open war.". Bianco agrees "That's what we're trying to avoid." I take Patriarca's advice to mean Bianco's people should be careful about who they try to kill, both because they may want some of those guys back and they also want to avoid killing people who will cause war to erupt.

[Antiliar]

Another good analysis. Excellent work, B.

[Pogo The Clown]

More great work. Thanks for this B.


Pogo

[B.]

I thought this one went well with the other one I posted, as you have two former New England associates who got made in different NY Families, and both of these guys are going to Patriarca to get "unofficial" advice on what to do in their respective families.

I was thinking of the information Scarpa provided during this same period, as Scarpa and Bianco were close but a big difference is Scarpa's relationship to LoCicero. Scarpa didn't trust LoCicero either, but he was much closer to him. I didn't know LoCicero had a close relationship to Carlo Gambino but it makes some sense. Anyway, I'd say Bianco's take on things confirms a lot of what Scarpa says.

Anyone know when Joe Colombo became boss? It was 1963 but I'm not sure the month. Bianco doesn't mention Colombo and it sounds like this was still a transitional period. Magliocco is still alive but has fallen out of favor and it appears there are three or four "factions" at this time... Bianco's people (probably led by Joe Colombo), the Gallos, the Maglioccos, and LoCicero, though it seems LoCicero is a lone wolf trying to manipulate the different sides, possibly with Gambino's backing. Interesting that Bianco was part of a hit team staking out Tony Magliocco, as Scarpa was staking out Joe Magliocco himself at this same time.

[Cheech]

Going to read now. Thanks B.

[Cheech]

As I'm reading the last few nights a couple things stick out. Ray is very very well respected. I'm guessing around the country. And he says very few things. These other guys have very long winded things to say. Half the time ray says "couple of in audible words"
Remarkable
Thanks again B. I have a MF account but no patience or time to dig.

[B.]

As I'm reading the last few nights a couple things stick out. Ray is very very well respected. I'm guessing around the country. And he says very few things. These other guys have very long winded things to say. Half the time ray says "couple of in audible words"
Remarkable
Thanks again B. I have a MF account but no patience or time to dig.

Yeah I had the same thought. Crazy how all of these bosses had bugs in their personal offices at the same time... Patriarca, Magaddino, Bruno, DeCavalcante, and other top figures around the country, plus visiting bosses like Zerilli and Magliocco. In all of the transcripts I've seen these bosses dominate the conversations and ramble on about the past, present, and future and even mention murders and illegal operations... except Patriarca. He seems to let others talk then gives straightforward advice. Magaddino is by far the worst, just rants and raves on every one of the transcripts I've seen, talking shit about everyone and not letting anyone get a word in.

Probably going to try to do more research on Patriarca and New England. I have never looked into the NE family that much but have slowly been starting over the past year or so.

[HairyKnuckles]

- Bianco complains that "they hit our guy, a legitimate guy, had a business, never had nothing, good family, had a brother, a doctor". Anyone know of any Profaci members / associates killed in late 1962 or January 1963 that could fit this? Says "they hit our businessman, so we want to hit their business friends who is only fair."

Emile Colantuono was hit in June 1963. He was a small time businessman who aided the Gallo brothers financially. I figure this must be the guy Bianco is referring to.

- In the same breath as the above, he mentions a "Joe Colasso" (ph)

Probably Joe "Gus" Colozzo, a Gambino captain who controlled a couple of ILA locals in Brooklyn.

- Persico was partners with someone called "Frankie Martin" and the two were frequently seen together. Bianco met with "Martin" and gave him immunity. He and Martin discussed a "kid" who Martin believed Bianco wanted to kill and that Bianco's faction was going to be taking over businesses on the "outside". There was apparently an attempted murder of someone (maybe Martin) where he ran out of his house and jumped a neighbor's fence and into another house.

"Frank Martin" is Frank Baranca, Gambino soldier under Neil Dellacroce. In one of the files I´ve got, Baranca is mentioned as beoing on a Joey Gallo hit list. Apparently, Baranca was a rival of his in a numbers operation in Red Hook, Brooklyn.

- Bianco says that Carlo Gambino's men are supporting the Gallos financially and protecting them.

This confirms what Bonanno said about Gambino and Lucchese secretly backing the Gallos against Profaci. The bosses on the Commission were supposed to back eachother up when one of them faced internal armed resistance. So who was breaking the rules here? I can see, and fully understand, why Magliocco ordered their deaths.

[B.]

- Bianco complains that "they hit our guy, a legitimate guy, had a business, never had nothing, good family, had a brother, a doctor". Anyone know of any Profaci members / associates killed in late 1962 or January 1963 that could fit this? Says "they hit our businessman, so we want to hit their business friends who is only fair."

Emile Colantuono was hit in June 1963. He was a small time businessman who aided the Gallo brothers financially. I figure this must be the guy Bianco is referring to.

- In the same breath as the above, he mentions a "Joe Colasso" (ph)

Probably Joe "Gus" Colozzo, a Gambino captain who controlled a couple of ILA locals in Brooklyn.

- Persico was partners with someone called "Frankie Martin" and the two were frequently seen together. Bianco met with "Martin" and gave him immunity. He and Martin discussed a "kid" who Martin believed Bianco wanted to kill and that Bianco's faction was going to be taking over businesses on the "outside". There was apparently an attempted murder of someone (maybe Martin) where he ran out of his house and jumped a neighbor's fence and into another house.

"Frank Martin" is Frank Baranca, Gambino soldier under Neil Dellacroce. In one of the files I´ve got, Baranca is mentioned as beoing on a Joey Gallo hit list. Apparently, Baranca was a rival of his in a numbers operation in Red Hook, Brooklyn.

- Bianco says that Carlo Gambino's men are supporting the Gallos financially and protecting them.

This confirms what Bonanno said about Gambino and Lucchese secretly backing the Gallos against Profaci. The bosses on the Commission were supposed to back eachother up when one of them faced internal armed resistance. So who was breaking the rules here? I can see, and fully understand, why Magliocco ordered their deaths.

Thanks for all of the info! This definitely clears some stuff up. Sounds like even if Lucchese and Gambino weren't assisting the Gallos outright, they were at least turning a blind eye.

[B.]

Here's a nice follow-up conversation between Patriarca and Bianco from 8 months later, in February 1964. Interesting to see how much things changed.


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 3&tab=page


- Bianco says all of the captains, "everybody", attended a wake. Things seem to be picking up in the family.

- The rival factions apparently got together "real good". The son of someone "with Pappachi (ph)" got married and someone named "Patty Curricolar (ph) was there, who Bianco talked with about making it so "we all could get together". Things seem to have improved since then.

- Ray asks "They didn't name nobody yet?". I assume he's asking about the boss spot. Patriarca was supposed to "send word" through "Sammy" to someone named "Mike". Apparently Patriarca was "disturbed" the last time he talked to Bianco and "Mike" sent word back that Patriarca "felt sorry" for him (Mike).

- When all of the captains from the rival factions got together, Bianco says they all shook hands and it was "wonderful".

- Bianco mentions someone being a "topper (ph) fellow" who is campaigning for the boss position and has the support of four captains. Patriarca says that "makes no difference" because the Commission is going to choose the boss.

- "Joey Trumble" (probably Colombo) got a hold of Bianco and "Joe was going around campaigning". Apparently this guy had the support of Larry Gallo and "all the boys". Bianco then went to see "this kid personally", who is apparently the underboss. "Joey" then got in touch with Bianco again. Apparently people were taking issue with the fact that he was "campaigning for boss" and Bianco was surprised because "Tommy" never told him (Bianco) that people can't campaign for the boss position.

- Patriarca says that there is a rule against campaigning for boss and there is a rule that the Commission "cannot object". He says the Commission can only object to a boss if they "have something real bad" on the guy. Otherwise, it's all up to the family to vote for their own boss. He said the way they've been doing it lately in New York, however, is to take a guy and "push him out" because they "wanna get somebody there to run it right, don't carry no hard feelings." Seems like he's saying that lately the Commission has been choosing bosses in NY to avoid conflict.

- Bianco saw Joe Colombo at a wedding and told him that Patriarca sent his regards. Colombo then told Bianco to send his regards to Patriarca.

- Colombo had "animosity" toward Junior (Persico) and Bianco tried to convince him to let it go. Patriarca says when a new boss is elected "he forgets everything" and "everybody starts clean".

- Bianco offers Patriarca a .38 snubnose that he's apparently been storing in New England. Patriarca says to "wrap it up and leave it in the barber shop" before he leaves town. Bianco says he will leave it with "Michael Bowery (ph)" but not tell him what it is. He'll drop it off at "Gigi's".

- "Mooney's" (John Cutrone) mother died and "everybody came", which "shows he at least has got the respect". Patriarca says that guys don't have to attend a wedding they're invited to, but they have to show up for a funeral. Someone named "Willy" said "if it was normal times, nobody would have come."

- Bianco has been meeting with "Larry" (I assume Gallo) and Larry send his regards to Patriarca. Apparently Larry was planning to visit with Patriarca.

- They talk about how the guys that "suffered" during the Profaci family's problems "walk with two feet in one shoe" and don't make trouble, whereas the guys who "didn't suffer" make trouble. Someone called "Kelagoo Gutson (ph) was in jail during the family problems and it sounds like Bianco wasn't happy with the way he handled himself when he got out.

- Bianco got flowers from "Buster's son" (one of the Alois) who runs a flower shop. Not sure if he simply bought flowers or got involved in the flower business, as he talks about some other businesses he's gotten involved with, like juke boxes and retail.

- Bianco says they'll help Patriarca with the "cinema box" business (boxes where you can pay to watch little movies, like scopitones) and that "Tommy" told him to tell Patriarca that. Wondering who Tommy is... DiBella maybe? The law gave Patriarca trouble in that business because they classified it as a "moving picture machine" and said he had to keep a fireman or "movie picture operator" in the building if they have those boxes. Bianco is trying to "unclassify it as a moving picture machine." Someone named Rudolph Sciarra comes into the room and discusses this business with them.

- Patriarca believes that the movie box business will put the regular juke box business out of business because cocktail lounge owners won't need to hire live entertainment, as people can just watch dancers and singers on the movie box. Bianco says that he's in business to produce their own movies to put in the movie boxes. He says they just released "Sing You Sinners". That's an older movie so not sure if they just converted it for the machines or produced their own version.

- When Larry (Gallo?) was in jail he got close to a bank president who was serving time for embezzlement and apparently the Profaci family helped get the guy out of jail and the guy invested in their movie box business

- Patriarca asks Bianco if he sees Tommy Eboli much and Bianco says no. Patriarca says to get in touch with him when it "gets close to election time". Bianco says he has no way of knowing when election time is coming up and Patriarca says "You'll know, you'll know." They seem to be talking about electing a new boss, not politicians. Bianco goes on to talk about "Joey" (Colombo) getting "burnt".

- Bianco says "when Archie was alive" that "Patty" was the captain and Charlie LoCicero was "nothing", but then says "when he was alive it was the opposite" which is confusing. Says they had a meeting where LoCicero learned that "Joey was the guy". Seems to be saying that LoCicero learned Joe Colombo was the top guy in the family, but Larry (Gallo?) wanted to know how LoCicero found out because nobody was supposed to know about Colombo. "Tommy" also said that "no one is supposed to know who Joey is." Colombo then had to "conduct all these things out because he's a guy close to Carlo." Someone else said that "everybody knows" and it's not a secret.

- Bianco says that Colombo is doing a great job and has the respect of everybody. Bianco says Colombo is "gonna be a good man". He then says "whoever they pick is gonna be good", maybe meaning whoever the family or Commission picks for boss is going to be good. he says as long as Raymond says it, "that's the way it is". Sounds like Joe Colombo is campaigning to be boss but is not officially in that position yet.

- Bianco talks about the movie industry and how we "just released the picture", which is "adults only". He says the "other industry like Chicago has got" is like an "old whore" and how this new industry is "like a virgin". It sounds like he's talking about softcore material, not hardcore porn.

- Bianco has a guy in the garbage business and someone named "Dinny" who represents Tommy Eboli had a beef with Bianco's guy. They were able to settle the beef.

- Bianco tells Patriarca "your brother, he's with us." I know Patriarca had at least one brother, but I'm wondering about this. Did Patriarca have a brother in NY who associated with the Colombos or something? Bianco discusses some kind of money transaction related to this but it's not clear.

- Bianco has a guy in the flower business (not sure if it's the Aloi he mentioned earlier) who is willing to give him three or four thousand in "shylock work" (either a loan or a cut of his shylock business?) after Bianco's court case is over. Bianco isn't sure if he is going to jail, though.

- Bianco says "they gotta prove that I shot this kid" and says they can't prove it. He says the only way they could is if they "got a lot of old phonies" and how "you can't connect that with Jackie". Bianco is referring to the attempted murder he was apparently arrested for that got discussed in the earlier transcript, where someone was shot up badly with an M1.

- Bianco has some kind of "eight thousand dollar deal" with Joe Colombo. Colombo wants Bianco to "stay here because this is where you learn." Might be a reference to Bianco staying close to Colombo or staying in NY?

- A guy called "Mikie" who wears "dark glasses" sent Patriarca his regards from New York. Raymond seems to know who this is and says "he's cockeyed" and wears glasses due to some eye defect. Bianco says he couldn't tell because of the guy's dark glasses. This guy "Mikie" apparently knows "Joe Burns", who Bianco has never actually met (not sure if he means as a made member or in general)

- "Mikie" apparently told Bianco to "sit down and this way you learn", which Bianco appreciates because he feels he doesn't know a lot. Patriarca agrees with this advice and tells him not to pretend like he knows everything when he doesn't know. He tells Bianco to "tell him you're always willing to learn" because that allows you to get away with a mistake if you make one. Bianco says he hates embarrassing himself at a sitdown and saying the "wrong thing".Patriarca says they know he (Bianco) is young and has more to learn. He says even when you're 90 years old you can learn from someone who is 95. Says "especially in our line, you can always learn."

- Bianco talks about someone (Mikie?) saying that "Nicky was made about four months ago" and how "the guy, he gotta get in." The guy said "gee, they don't put the books around there, he said, out of town books". The guy then said he "represent the Gallos" and "didn't bother to explain it". Bianco then talks about "six guys" and how people think they're doing the right thing but make mistakes in haste. It's not clear if the Nicky they're talking about is Nick Bianco or another one.

- Patriarca then talks about someone named "Allen" (ph) getting cleared and how "when the books are open again, they'll be the first to be made". Bianco says "good, good" about this.

- Bianco again talks about how things are going well and how Larry (Gallo?) makes sure nobody can say a bad word about Bianco's group. I assume he means that Larry Gallo is making sure his faction doesn't talk badly about them.

- Bianco says that he (Bianco), Larry, and "Mooney" (Cutrone) "don't go no place" and that they "set the example".

- Someone named "Bill DiCappit" (ph) went into a joint that he was told to stay out of. There is a reference to "the Gallo's father", which he says was "a touchy thing". He mentions "Bustiano" (ph) being there (could be Buster Aloi), who Patriarca apparently knows. "Bustiano" is "like a politician" and "telling stories all night". He mentions that the Shiek (Musacchio) is on trial for a gun charge.

- "Bustiano" is apparently close to Mike Miranda and Miranda asked "Bustiano" to do a favor involving a "shipment to Italy" and his (Miranda's) nephew. Bianco says his (Bustiano's?) compare was "with Immigration" (possibly meaning he works for the Immigration department?). Apparently Bustiano was up all night trying to figure out how to do whatever he was supposed to do and put a suitcase in his car and went to "Mike Compari's" (my compare, I think) house. His compare said "You're going on a trip? Goodbye. Look, it's up to you." It was apparently a boat trip. Later, "Mike" (Miranda) met with the "Compari" and took out his wallet offering "whatever you want".

- Following the last point, Bianco says he has a connection with Immigration now and can get visas or anything like that. The guy is related to "Larry's uncle" so "Larry" (Gallo?) is the connection. The guy is apparently the top Immigration official in the city.

- Bianco talks about getting rid of his court case so he can make money. Bianco brings up the captains in the family and Patriarca says that the captains are supposed to pay taxes (i.e. kick up) to help the "kids" out, not to help the bosses out. Patriarca says "that went out with the mustaches", though. Seems to be talking about the monthly family tax for legal expenses.

- Patriarca says the bosses should make their own living and not depend on the men, but to help the men. Bianco says he told Joe Colombo they'll do everything they can to help him and is looking out for people. He gave part of a juke box racket in Bath Beach to "Rocky" (Miraglia), who is with Joe Colombo. It won't cost Rocky anything, he just has to find locations.

- They discuss the books being closed and how someone asked why certain guys couldn't get made but it was because the books were closed. Patriarca talks about someone else who questioned whether or not the books were open and doubted that they were closed, so he took the issue to his boss. Patriarca says if this person wanted to be a troublemaker, he could "go the front" and the Commission could "say to put this guy in or there will be no peace." Hard to understand it, but seems to be talking about someone trying to force his boss to make someone by going to the Commission.

- This "Tommy" (DiBella?) that keeps getting brought up introduced Bianco to "the doctor".

- Patriarca says something about when a guy reached 60 years of age, he's "not out of the family but he's not considered an active member" and "the family can still assist him if he needs assistance."

- Patriarca also says that "years ago when there was a meeting, everybody had to attend, even if you were in San Francisco, you had to come to the meeting when you were called."

- Apparently an article in a publication discussed a peace-making meeting in the Profaci family and Bianco wonders how they got that info. He says he (Bianco) is the only person to see "Joey" (Colombo). "Mooney" (Cutrone) and "Larry" don't introduce Bianco to anybody because "Tony the Shiek" (Anthony Carillo? or Musacchio?) said not to introduce Bianco to anyone. He says "other guys will", but they (Mooney and Larry) don't.

[Pogo The Clown]

Someone named Rudolph Sciarra comes into the room and discusses this business with them.

Rudolph “Rudy Earl” Sciarra was a made member from Providence. He died in 2012. I don't know if he was made at the time of this recording.


Pogo

[bronx]

steve borriello got shot in the face by a rifle and was disfigured, bianco was very close to joe colombo.

[Pogo The Clown]

This confirms what Bonanno said about Gambino and Lucchese secretly backing the Gallos against Profaci. The bosses on the Commission were supposed to back eachother up when one of them faced internal armed resistance. So who was breaking the rules here? I can see, and fully understand, why Magliocco ordered their deaths.

In my view Carlo Gambino was pretty damaging for LCN. He supported the Gallo Faction which led to a war and all the divisions within the Colombos that really weakened the family and led to all of their future problems. Same with his support of the DiGregorio Faction which led to all of their problems in the 70s, 80s and up to today. The Colombos and Bonannos would be much stronger families today if not for hs interference in the 60s. These MF documents also show that he was the main driving force behind the books being closed from 1957-1976. Again something that was really damaging for the 5 families.


Pogo

[phatmatress777]

Why did he want the books closed?


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[Doobeez]

I think Pogo makes a very valid point. Consider his examples of the unrest in other Families, and Gambino seems to like supporting the "other" side, and then consider CG's own treachery with the move on Anastasia.

Why did he want the books closed?


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JMO, maybe to concede the move on A.A. was to protect LCN because he sold memberships. Gambino now had a large Family under him, and probably figured they'd be OK without making anybody for a long period of time.