by Don Mosseria » Sat Dec 31, 2022 9:03 am
CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sat Dec 31, 2022 3:22 am
chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:22 pm
This is a fantastic thread, that possible connection to British reorganisation of the Sicilian parliament was something I'd never thought of before
Agree. I've always saw it as like bastardized feudalism, but this stuff is next level...
Hey Cabrini - how you doing? I certainly also agree that the mafia borrows a lot of its form and aesthetic from feudalism. So it kind of combines both 19th century parliamentary forms and older feudal forms. Interestingly, I wrote about the feudal roots of Cosa Nostra a couple of weeks ago, in relation to Milwaukee member informant August Maniaci reporting that that family’s Assembly of all members was referred to as the “tourna”, as recorded phonetically by federal agents. I argue that this is a dialect pronunciation of the Italian word “torneo”, as “torne”, meaning “tournament”, and this is a reference to the feudal tournament. These feudal tournaments, with jousting etc., were ostentatious displays of power and chivalry, meaning military honour, where all the nobles and knights of a territory would come together. I post a short excerpt below, and you can follow the quote link to have a read if you are interested.
Cheers, and Happy New Year!
Don Mosseria wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 2:15 pm
Further, I think this derivation of the term makes sense when one considers the socio-political function of the medieval tournament within the feudal political system. Before getting to that, I think it would be useful to consider briefly the borrowing from the feudal political order by the mafia, both in terms of aesthetic preference, and formal political structure. You rightly note in your podcasts and writings the borrowing from the early modern Italian representative systems of governance by the mafia - the Assembly and the Consiglio. But I think there is at least as clear an integration of the pyramidal feudal political structure.
63D25C83-CDBB-4F56-84B5-C6271E45B4AE.png
It is not a 1-2-1 mirroring between the mafia and feudal structures, but it is very close. I would probably lay it out slightly differently than the diagrams I have found. Something like King = Representante. High Lords = Capo Decine. Minor Lords = Soldati. Knights = On record associates/prospects. Peasants/Serfs = the general population whom the mafia tax. The King will select a handful of men from among his lords to serve as his administration, similar to the Soto Capo & Consigliere roles. It would also be possible to view the King as the Capo dei Capi, and the noble houses of the high lords as the different mafia families. Wherever exactly one decides to draw the parallels, the structural similarity is there. Given that in Southern Italy and Sicily the feudal system continued until 1860, the era in which the mafia was being created, it is not actually surprising that it would borrow from the political forms around it (though I don't know how similar early modern Bourbon feudalism was to the "true" feudalism of the Middle Ages).
[quote=CabriniGreen post_id=247174 time=1672482165 user_id=5378]
[quote=chin_gigante post_id=247156 time=1672446171 user_id=5708]
This is a fantastic thread, that possible connection to British reorganisation of the Sicilian parliament was something I'd never thought of before
[/quote]
Agree. I've always saw it as like bastardized feudalism, but this stuff is next level...
[/quote]
Hey Cabrini - how you doing? I certainly also agree that the mafia borrows a lot of its form and aesthetic from feudalism. So it kind of combines both 19th century parliamentary forms and older feudal forms. Interestingly, I wrote about the feudal roots of Cosa Nostra a couple of weeks ago, in relation to Milwaukee member informant August Maniaci reporting that that family’s Assembly of all members was referred to as the “tourna”, as recorded phonetically by federal agents. I argue that this is a dialect pronunciation of the Italian word “torneo”, as “torne”, meaning “tournament”, and this is a reference to the feudal tournament. These feudal tournaments, with jousting etc., were ostentatious displays of power and chivalry, meaning military honour, where all the nobles and knights of a territory would come together. I post a short excerpt below, and you can follow the quote link to have a read if you are interested.
Cheers, and Happy New Year!
[quote="Don Mosseria" post_id=246002 time=1671052511 user_id=8001]
Further, I think this derivation of the term makes sense when one considers the socio-political function of the medieval tournament within the feudal political system. Before getting to that, I think it would be useful to consider briefly the borrowing from the feudal political order by the mafia, both in terms of aesthetic preference, and formal political structure. You rightly note in your podcasts and writings the borrowing from the early modern Italian representative systems of governance by the mafia - the Assembly and the Consiglio. But I think there is at least as clear an integration of the pyramidal feudal political structure.
[attachment=0]63D25C83-CDBB-4F56-84B5-C6271E45B4AE.png[/attachment]
It is not a 1-2-1 mirroring between the mafia and feudal structures, but it is very close. I would probably lay it out slightly differently than the diagrams I have found. Something like King = Representante. High Lords = Capo Decine. Minor Lords = Soldati. Knights = On record associates/prospects. Peasants/Serfs = the general population whom the mafia tax. The King will select a handful of men from among his lords to serve as his administration, similar to the Soto Capo & Consigliere roles. It would also be possible to view the King as the Capo dei Capi, and the noble houses of the high lords as the different mafia families. Wherever exactly one decides to draw the parallels, the structural similarity is there. Given that in Southern Italy and Sicily the feudal system continued until 1860, the era in which the mafia was being created, it is not actually surprising that it would borrow from the political forms around it (though I don't know how similar early modern Bourbon feudalism was to the "true" feudalism of the Middle Ages).
[/quote]