THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Don_Peppino** » Wed Mar 13, 2024 9:22 am

CornerBoy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:04 am
davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:46 am
Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:02 pm Bumpy’s family members were pretty outspoken about Frank Lucas and the American Gangster story. Lucas kinda combined three stories (Bumpy, Frank Matthews, Ike Atkinson) and made it his own. I think the only reason they never sued him is because he was perpetually broke. He got caught at one point stealing his own sons social security. Even with the American Gangster check he was a brokester.
Didn't Frank Lucas cooperate with law enforcement against his Mafia associates?
didnt this guy make 100s of millions?

never occurred to him to maybe put 10M away for a rainy day?

Retard

Lol. He did and the government ceased most of it. Lawyers, accountants and cops stole some too.

by **CornerBoy** » Wed Mar 13, 2024 7:04 am

davidf1989 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:46 am
Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:02 pm Bumpy’s family members were pretty outspoken about Frank Lucas and the American Gangster story. Lucas kinda combined three stories (Bumpy, Frank Matthews, Ike Atkinson) and made it his own. I think the only reason they never sued him is because he was perpetually broke. He got caught at one point stealing his own sons social security. Even with the American Gangster check he was a brokester.
Didn't Frank Lucas cooperate with law enforcement against his Mafia associates?

didnt this guy make 100s of millions?

never occurred to him to maybe put 10M away for a rainy day?

Retard

by **Don_Peppino** » Wed Mar 13, 2024 5:58 am

Found something merely coincidental, it's a 1947 boxing results article were Bumpy Johnson's future bodyguard/driver Fred "Flash" Walker was on the same card as Vincent Gigante's brother Ralph. Just goes to show how small the world is I guess. The funny is , I wasn't even looking for Gigante.

by **davidf1989** » Sat Mar 04, 2023 2:46 am

Amershire_Ed wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:02 pm Bumpy’s family members were pretty outspoken about Frank Lucas and the American Gangster story. Lucas kinda combined three stories (Bumpy, Frank Matthews, Ike Atkinson) and made it his own. I think the only reason they never sued him is because he was perpetually broke. He got caught at one point stealing his own sons social security. Even with the American Gangster check he was a brokester.

Didn't Frank Lucas cooperate with law enforcement against his Mafia associates?

by **faffy444** » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:04 pm

Try this book about Bumpy
Harlem Godfather: The Rap on My Husband, Ellsworth "Bumpy" Johnson

by **Don_Peppino** » Thu Oct 27, 2022 9:47 am

Ivan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:07 am
Don_Peppino wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:15 amI don't think he has ever really gotten his due within the genre
they did make a Hollywood movie about him though

Agreed, but I guess I mean in print. There has never been a historically accurate definitive biography written about him. Or the context of the fight over the numbers with Dutch Schultz. The aftermath of that would result in the Luciano (eventual Genovese) Family acquiring a large portion of that market in Harlem. I believe Tony Salerno would inherit this empire later on.
There were several millionaire policy bankers in the 1920s. Alex Pompez, Casper Holstein, Jose Miro, Stephanie St. Claire, and a few others to name a few. Schultz was a power in his own right. Supposedly 40 murders and several kidnappings happened diring their street war 1934/1935. In my opinion this makes Bumpy a big leaguer (in the aspect of being a true "american gangster"). And some of the myths, jist need some clarification. Like, Did Bumpy and Luciano actually ever meet??? And there's a blank spot in Johnson's history during the 40s and 50s. I know he was in jail alot but some of that street time is undocumented, to my knowledge.

by **Ivan** » Thu Oct 27, 2022 5:07 am

Don_Peppino wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 11:15 amI don't think he has ever really gotten his due within the genre

they did make a Hollywood movie about him though

by **aleksandrored** » Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:10 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:04 am
aleksandrored wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:51 am
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:50 pm The late Lt. Remo Franceschini discusses Johnson at length in his autobiography. He said through the investigations they found Johnson was essentially the middle man for the Italians (primarily the Genovese family - the bankers) in the black areas of Harlem. This was after Dutch Schultz had been eliminated, of course, and the Italians had moved in.
Interesting, what is the name of the book?
A Matter of Honor: One Cop's Lifelong Pursuit of John Gotti and the Mob (1993)

Thanks!!

by **Wiseguy** » Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:04 am

aleksandrored wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:51 am
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:50 pm The late Lt. Remo Franceschini discusses Johnson at length in his autobiography. He said through the investigations they found Johnson was essentially the middle man for the Italians (primarily the Genovese family - the bankers) in the black areas of Harlem. This was after Dutch Schultz had been eliminated, of course, and the Italians had moved in.
Interesting, what is the name of the book?

A Matter of Honor: One Cop's Lifelong Pursuit of John Gotti and the Mob (1993)

by **aleksandrored** » Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:51 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:50 pm The late Lt. Remo Franceschini discusses Johnson at length in his autobiography. He said through the investigations they found Johnson was essentially the middle man for the Italians (primarily the Genovese family - the bankers) in the black areas of Harlem. This was after Dutch Schultz had been eliminated, of course, and the Italians had moved in.

Interesting, what is the name of the book?

by **outfit guy** » Wed Oct 26, 2022 6:32 am

There was a gentleman on here that was from Harlem that could set this straight. An intermediary to the Italians was the 1920s and 1930s. As that poster makes clear, by the 50s, Puerto Ricans ran most of the major rackets on Harlem (Angelet brothers, Spanish Ray, etc.). The Italians had their own spots for sure, but so did the Cubans, Blacks, people from the Islands, PRs, etc. There was no overarching payment to the Italians besides a token for the daily number payed by Spanish Ray. Where they shared mutual spots, I'm sure they shared profits with other ethnic gangs.

by **Amershire_Ed** » Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:02 pm

Bumpy’s family members were pretty outspoken about Frank Lucas and the American Gangster story. Lucas kinda combined three stories (Bumpy, Frank Matthews, Ike Atkinson) and made it his own. I think the only reason they never sued him is because he was perpetually broke. He got caught at one point stealing his own sons social security. Even with the American Gangster check he was a brokester.

by **Wiseguy** » Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:28 pm

JeremyTheJew wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:17 pm
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:59 pm
JeremyTheJew wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:53 pm
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:50 pm The late Lt. Remo Franceschini discusses Johnson at length in his autobiography. He said through the investigations they found Johnson was essentially the middle man for the Italians (primarily the Genovese family - the bankers) in the black areas of Harlem. This was after Dutch Schultz had been eliminated, of course, and the Italians had moved in.
What about the dope
I don't recall Franceschini mentioning heroin specifically in regards to Johnson but, considering the Italians more or less controlled the heroin supply throughout the timeframe of his criminal career, so I imagine the arrangement was the same.
Interesting tho bc now he is actually more known for dope now due to Frank lieing Lucas and also shows like king of Harlem

I would be interested to know if all the other organizations in the tv show were real - I forgot all there names but I’m sure they were probably mostly made up

That tv show (king off Harlem) pretty much rapes the truth

The revisionist history started with the 1997 movie Hoodlum and has apparently continued in the King of Harlem series.

Don_Peppino wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:02 pm So can we assume that Bumpy's point of contact may have been "Trigger" Mike Coppola, who was the Genovese power in harlem during that time? And also, was there any association to Steve Lasalle ( Lucchese), who was also a power on harlem during the 30s/40s in the numbers racket?.

Bumpy could definitely use a through biography.

If I remember right, the investigation into the Harlem numbers racket Franceschini talks about was in the 1960s. I don't recall any specific mob names.

by **Don_Peppino** » Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:02 pm

So can we assume that Bumpy's point of contact may have been "Trigger" Mike Coppola, who was the Genovese power in harlem during that time? And also, was there any association to Steve Lasalle ( Lucchese), who was also a power on harlem during the 30s/40s in the numbers racket?.

Bumpy could definitely use a through biography.

by **JeremyTheJew** » Tue Oct 25, 2022 1:17 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:59 pm
JeremyTheJew wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:53 pm
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 12:50 pm The late Lt. Remo Franceschini discusses Johnson at length in his autobiography. He said through the investigations they found Johnson was essentially the middle man for the Italians (primarily the Genovese family - the bankers) in the black areas of Harlem. This was after Dutch Schultz had been eliminated, of course, and the Italians had moved in.
What about the dope
I don't recall Franceschini mentioning heroin specifically in regards to Johnson but, considering the Italians more or less controlled the heroin supply throughout the timeframe of his criminal career, so I imagine the arrangement was the same.

Interesting tho bc now he is actually more known for dope now due to Frank lieing Lucas and also shows like king of Harlem

I would be interested to know if all the other organizations in the tv show were real - I forgot all there names but I’m sure they were probably mostly made up

That tv show (king off Harlem) pretty much rapes the truth

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Bumpy Johnson

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