THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Hired_Goonz wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:54 pm I still can't understand why Londonio or Caldwell didn't flip. Perhaps with Caldwell he couldn't connect Madonna or Crea to the murder. But I'm sure Agent Otto could have come up with a story and coached Caldwell up to deliver it. But I'm legit shocked that Londonio would rather eat a life sentence than rat out these guys. He might be the last guy in "the life" that takes that ridiculous oath serious. Because realistically he could testify against these guys and not even have to move.

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:13 am

avvocato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:55 am What is caldwell’s story, background, connections?

He's a Harlem guy who had an apartment in Esplanade Gardens (West Harlem) but supposedly was around East Harlem a lot. Meldish lived in the Bronx but also kept an apartment I believe on 2nd Ave around 115th - 116th street in the 'heart' of East Harlem. Caldwell just seems like an older, potentially washed up, career criminal - it sounded like his whole connection to LCN was because of his personal connection to Meldish (and maybe his personal affinity for Heroin). That kind of seems strange too though because if Meldish was such a personal friend, why did Caldwell allegedly go along with his murder? It's not like he was up for his button and needed to do it. So that makes me wonder if Caldwell did actually do it, maybe he has a deeper connection going back to Madonna and other Lucchese's East Harlem days. He's not that old though, he would have been pretty young when the so called Purple Gang was around

InCamelot wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 11:11 am

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:19 am Yaeh it was so.e special rule the judge instructed basically told the jury if you think crea was part of the mafia family hes guilty of all the crimes they committed.

This is how it went down?

Pmac2 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 4:19 am Yaeh it was so.e special rule the judge instructed basically told the jury if you think crea was part of the mafia family hes guilty of all the crimes they committed.

Dave65827 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:20 am

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:13 am

avvocato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:55 am What is caldwell’s story, background, connections?

He's a Harlem guy who had an apartment in Esplanade Gardens (West Harlem) but supposedly was around East Harlem a lot. Meldish lived in the Bronx but also kept an apartment I believe on 2nd Ave around 115th - 116th street in the 'heart' of East Harlem. Caldwell just seems like an older, potentially washed up, career criminal - it sounded like his whole connection to LCN was because of his personal connection to Meldish (and maybe his personal affinity for Heroin). That kind of seems strange too though because if Meldish was such a personal friend, why did Caldwell allegedly go along with his murder? It's not like he was up for his button and needed to do it. So that makes me wonder if Caldwell did actually do it, maybe he has a deeper connection going back to Madonna and other Lucchese's East Harlem days. He's not that old though, he would have been pretty young when the so called Purple Gang was around

I think Caldwell went through with it because Meldish drove away during the Enzo stagno shooting leaving him to run and be identified through surveillance. Probably held resentment after that and not to mention the trouble for shooting a made guy.


This isnt backed by the court preceding and just my opinion

sdeitche wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:21 am

InCamelot wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:18 pm And the proven players involved?

It seems like from the disparate pieces of info on the Internet..

- Meldish was assaulted by Bonannos for sleeping with Mancuso's girlfriend
- Meldish sought revenge by hiring Terence Caldwell to shoot Bonanno solider Enzo the Baker
- But Meldish peeled off and left Caldwell twisting in the wind after the shooting
- Meldish was considered an associate of the Lucchese's so they needed to whack him before the Bonanno's responded in a worse way
- There was already tension between the two families over the social club incident (Crea Sr confronting Carl Ulzheimer or vice versa)
- So Lucchese's arrange for Caldwell to return the favour to Meldish for ditching him.

Is that the court proven story on what happened? How did they convict Crea Sr, Jr, Madonna and whoever else? Appreciate I could be wrong here so educate me if you understand it to be different.

I read in the tesitmony that the defense was also arguing that the Genovese family was behind it.

newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 9:13 am

avvocato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:55 am What is caldwell’s story, background, connections?

He's a Harlem guy who had an apartment in Esplanade Gardens (West Harlem) but supposedly was around East Harlem a lot. Meldish lived in the Bronx but also kept an apartment I believe on 2nd Ave around 115th - 116th street in the 'heart' of East Harlem. Caldwell just seems like an older, potentially washed up, career criminal - it sounded like his whole connection to LCN was because of his personal connection to Meldish (and maybe his personal affinity for Heroin). That kind of seems strange too though because if Meldish was such a personal friend, why did Caldwell allegedly go along with his murder? It's not like he was up for his button and needed to do it. So that makes me wonder if Caldwell did actually do it, maybe he has a deeper connection going back to Madonna and other Lucchese's East Harlem days. He's not that old though, he would have been pretty young when the so called Purple Gang was around

avvocato wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:55 am What is caldwell’s story, background, connections?

sdeitche wrote: ↑Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:21 am

InCamelot wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:18 pm And the proven players involved?

It seems like from the disparate pieces of info on the Internet..

- Meldish was assaulted by Bonannos for sleeping with Mancuso's girlfriend
- Meldish sought revenge by hiring Terence Caldwell to shoot Bonanno solider Enzo the Baker
- But Meldish peeled off and left Caldwell twisting in the wind after the shooting
- Meldish was considered an associate of the Lucchese's so they needed to whack him before the Bonanno's responded in a worse way
- There was already tension between the two families over the social club incident (Crea Sr confronting Carl Ulzheimer or vice versa)
- So Lucchese's arrange for Caldwell to return the favour to Meldish for ditching him.

Is that the court proven story on what happened? How did they convict Crea Sr, Jr, Madonna and whoever else? Appreciate I could be wrong here so educate me if you understand it to be different.

I read in the tesitmony that the defense was also arguing that the Genovese family was behind it.

InCamelot wrote: ↑Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:18 pm And the proven players involved?

It seems like from the disparate pieces of info on the Internet..

- Meldish was assaulted by Bonannos for sleeping with Mancuso's girlfriend
- Meldish sought revenge by hiring Terence Caldwell to shoot Bonanno solider Enzo the Baker
- But Meldish peeled off and left Caldwell twisting in the wind after the shooting
- Meldish was considered an associate of the Lucchese's so they needed to whack him before the Bonanno's responded in a worse way
- There was already tension between the two families over the social club incident (Crea Sr confronting Carl Ulzheimer or vice versa)
- So Lucchese's arrange for Caldwell to return the favour to Meldish for ditching him.

Is that the court proven story on what happened? How did they convict Crea Sr, Jr, Madonna and whoever else? Appreciate I could be wrong here so educate me if you understand it to be different.