THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Etna** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:31 am

I am pretty sure Joey O Masella in NJ was killed - he owed everyone money...but he may be a different ball of wax.

by **Snakes** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:17 am

Yeah, if the bookies are really good at setting the lines or odds, they don't necessarily want even money.

by **Cheech** » Sat Sep 23, 2017 3:57 am

Teddy Persico wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:07 pm
Cheech wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:48 am
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:30 pm As long as the bookie balances his books, through the layoff or whatever.

question for you.

you're a bookie. last night you have $10k on the rams -3 and $1k on the 49ers +3. what do you do?
Before the game you call other bookies who have more bets on the 49ers and you basically swap bet $ to get as even as possible. Everyone is trying to even their bets on both sides so the actual game result won't matter. If you can't get all the way even, your profit amount will depend on the outcome, but you should make enough in vig to profit either way. And if you're in the Mafia, you're taking a 10% cut from those other bookies anyways.

Wiseguy had a better answer than you and hes from utah. Bookies dont swap bets. When you "bet" with another bookie you have to pay the vig too. And the really good books dont take 10% they partner and put you on a 50 sheet. Or a quarter sheet. Everything you wrote above couldnt be farther from truth. No bookie wants it even as possible. You are goin to win 4-7% of the total handle anyways.
Laying off is for either - the really big books. Especially stand alone games. That you might edge off but not to even out the money just to lower your risk. Or the really small books that shouldnt be taking bets anyways. That even money on both sides is garbage. And dont send me some wiki article.

by **Teddy Persico** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:07 pm

Cheech wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:48 am
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:30 pm As long as the bookie balances his books, through the layoff or whatever.

question for you.

you're a bookie. last night you have $10k on the rams -3 and $1k on the 49ers +3. what do you do?

Before the game you call other bookies who have more bets on the 49ers and you basically swap bet $ to get as even as possible. Everyone is trying to even their bets on both sides so the actual game result won't matter. If you can't get all the way even, your profit amount will depend on the outcome, but you should make enough in vig to profit either way. And if you're in the Mafia, you're taking a 10% cut from those other bookies anyways.

by **rayray** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:51 pm

Didn't Ruggiero badmouth or help encourage the DiB killing? Something about owing the guy over 250k?

I imagine stuff like this happened here and there...especially to guys who loaned money who weren't particularly feared by others.

by **Ivan** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:03 pm

Stroccos wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:37 pm
Antiliar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:49 pm I think I have read about a couple made guys who killed the guys they were indebted to, but can't recall their names with any certainty. One may have been Milwaukee Phil Alderisio, but I'm not sure.
The only one I can think of that was major was didn't the westies knock off ruby stein who they owed big money to although he was a loanshark

Yeah, they also took over his business IIRC.

I wonder how often this happens to loan sharks? As Roy DeMeo put it, it sounds like it would be a good way to get a nest egg.

by **Stroccos** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 1:37 pm

Antiliar wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:49 pm I think I have read about a couple made guys who killed the guys they were indebted to, but can't recall their names with any certainty. One may have been Milwaukee Phil Alderisio, but I'm not sure.

The only one I can think of that was major was didn't the westies knock off ruby stein who they owed big money to although he was a loanshark

by **Antiliar** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:49 pm

I think I have read about a couple made guys who killed the guys they were indebted to, but can't recall their names with any certainty. One may have been Milwaukee Phil Alderisio, but I'm not sure.

by **Wiseguy** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:26 am

Cheech wrote: ↑Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:48 am
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:30 pm As long as the bookie balances his books, through the layoff or whatever.

question for you.

you're a bookie. last night you have $10k on the rams -3 and $1k on the 49ers +3. what do you do?

Well, assuming the bookie has already moved the line to influence betting, he calls another bookie and bets $4,500 on the 49ers. That way he's covered if the Rams win (which they did) and has enough to pay off the winning bettors while still collecting the built-in vig from the losers.

by **rayray** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 10:22 am

I use to have older relatives, all brothers and cousins that ran a semi-circle of gambling and loans mostly amongst each other. I don't think I ever heard of anyone getting hurt from the gambling part, and only kind of once where someone didn't want to pay someone else but that was from bookie to bookie where there was some kind of confusion and a threat, then the only outcome was the one brother paid the other brothers bet to make the other guy happy but pissed off his own brother. And I'm not sure if it was related but an argument broke out between the two brothers and the brother that paid the debt pulled out a knife and threatened the brother that wouldn't pay the other bookie, and well, the brother who wouldn't pay the debt broke his brothers arm for pulling out a knife on him.

I don't even know if there is a moral to this story other then,
A) Blood should always be thicker then water
and
B) If you pull out a weapon you better be tough enough to be able to use it

by **Cheech** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:48 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:30 pm As long as the bookie balances his books, through the layoff or whatever.

question for you.

you're a bookie. last night you have $10k on the rams -3 and $1k on the 49ers +3. what do you do?

by **Snakes** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 9:44 am

There were definitely guys who didn't pay out and their reputations suffered as a result.

by **HairyKnuckles** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:06 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:30 pm Can't think of any examples off the top of my head. As long as the bookie balances his books, through the layoff or whatever, it shouldn't matter if somebody wins bug. And you don't want your operation getting a reputation of not paying your players, let alone knocking them off. Lol.

Can´t agree more. The reputation of a bookie like that would sink like a stone in a lake. He would be in trouble finding new customers and the ones betting with him would go bet someplace else. This also goes with gambling places. if customers found out it was rigged, the gambling place would had to have been shut down. The places controlled by the Mafia, believe it or not, were often the more secure ones when it comes to fair play. A lot of made guys controlled very successful floating gambling dens and these were in many cases their only livelihood. It would have been suicide trying to rig these games or avoid paying a winning customer. A gambler who placed bets with an independent bookie or gambled at an independent mobster´s game faced more worries concerning winnings or suspicions of a rigged game.

by **FriendofHenry** » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:32 am

chubby wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:04 pm
FriendofHenry wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:30 pm
Ivan wrote: ↑Thu Sep 21, 2017 1:52 pm Any notable examples of this ever happening?
A friend of mine robbed a few big time poker games that were being run outside of Michael or Jo Jo's OK.
Did Michael and jo jo ever find out he did it? If so what was the punishment. Also just curious.. do you know a ballpark figure of how much money he got when he robbed the games

The games he took off were games that were outside of Jo Jo an Michael's games. He called them "hit and run games". The only thing they wanted from him was there piece. Never got a count.The less I knew, the better

by **Teddy Persico** » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:16 pm

^Exactly. Mob bookies aren't too concerned with any one bet. It all evens out in the end if they moved the line and lay their action right.

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Bookies/mobsters killing big gambling winners to avoid paying them?

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