by Wiseguy » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:49 pm
B. wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:45 pm
Chucky wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:25 pm
What are you considering the stabilization period? Out of curiosity. I'm guessing 2006 to 2009 like you mentioned above? Seems around 2009 or so was when it became evident that Mancuso was emerging as the new boss.
Yeah, I don't mean anything concrete since a lot of it's a mystery, but I would say after Massino had flipped and Basciano, Mancuso, and that phase of leadership/membership were taken off the streets the family would have been able to focus on stabilizing. Basically when the big indictments started thinning out, guys stopped flipping, and they had consistent leadership, which seems to have been around the time Montagna took over.
At the time everyone thought the so-called "bambino boss" was a last resort for a desperate family (and maybe that's partially true), but the picture that has emerged of Montagna since his death makes him out to be a sharp, aggressive leader. If he was able to do what he did in Montreal (though he did have longstanding personal and possibly criminal ties there), I imagine he may have been a resourceful and serious leader as acting boss in NY where he was deeply entrenched.
2009 seems to be when people (on the boards and in the media) started to say, "Maybe the Bonannos aren't completely ruined." I def wouldn't say that the Bonannos were stable at that point or even completely stable now since it sounds like there is tension between factions, but that's pretty normal for the mob anyway... even at their peaks the families had groups out to get each other.
Anyway, what has always been the most interesting family to me has continued to be fuckin' fascinating into the latest era (2006 to today)! I mean, an unprecedented takedown of a mob family, where the boss, underboss, and key captains all flip, the next generation of leadership are hit with hard prison terms, all during a time period where everyone is saying "the recruitment pool is dried up" and yet here we are. I'm not saying they are some powerhouse or anything, but the fact that they are in the shape they are in shows you how resilient these families are in NYC. You can only imagine what it's like in Sicily... no wonder they have the draconian laws they do to keep those guys down.
For the record, I had plenty of argument ends with people on the RD forum who claimed the Bonannos were finished. They were many of the same posters who said similar things about the Colombos. I get that some do it just tongue in cheek or as a running joke. But others seem to believe it. These are the ones who don't remember anything past the last headline and fail to see long term trends. While the quality has certainly suffered, anyone who says the recruitment pool in NY has dried up doesn't know what they're talking about. The five families have kept their membership totals relatively steady for years now. And they're almost indestructible from a purely law enforcement approach. And we don't see the same premature predictions from law enforcement and government officials about the demise of the NY Mafia that we did in the 1980s and 1990s.
[quote=B. post_id=47603 time=1487371516 user_id=127]
[quote=Chucky post_id=47599 time=1487370326 user_id=78]
What are you considering the stabilization period? Out of curiosity. I'm guessing 2006 to 2009 like you mentioned above? Seems around 2009 or so was when it became evident that Mancuso was emerging as the new boss.
[/quote]
Yeah, I don't mean anything concrete since a lot of it's a mystery, but I would say after Massino had flipped and Basciano, Mancuso, and that phase of leadership/membership were taken off the streets the family would have been able to focus on stabilizing. Basically when the big indictments started thinning out, guys stopped flipping, and they had consistent leadership, which seems to have been around the time Montagna took over.
At the time everyone thought the so-called "bambino boss" was a last resort for a desperate family (and maybe that's partially true), but the picture that has emerged of Montagna since his death makes him out to be a sharp, aggressive leader. If he was able to do what he did in Montreal (though he did have longstanding personal and possibly criminal ties there), I imagine he may have been a resourceful and serious leader as acting boss in NY where he was deeply entrenched.
2009 seems to be when people (on the boards and in the media) started to say, "Maybe the Bonannos aren't completely ruined." I def wouldn't say that the Bonannos were stable at that point or even completely stable now since it sounds like there is tension between factions, but that's pretty normal for the mob anyway... even at their peaks the families had groups out to get each other.
Anyway, what has always been the most interesting family to me has continued to be fuckin' fascinating into the latest era (2006 to today)! I mean, an unprecedented takedown of a mob family, where the boss, underboss, and key captains all flip, the next generation of leadership are hit with hard prison terms, all during a time period where everyone is saying "the recruitment pool is dried up" and yet here we are. I'm not saying they are some powerhouse or anything, but the fact that they are in the shape they are in shows you how resilient these families are in NYC. You can only imagine what it's like in Sicily... no wonder they have the draconian laws they do to keep those guys down.
[/quote]
For the record, I had plenty of argument ends with people on the RD forum who claimed the Bonannos were finished. They were many of the same posters who said similar things about the Colombos. I get that some do it just tongue in cheek or as a running joke. But others seem to believe it. These are the ones who don't remember anything past the last headline and fail to see long term trends. While the quality has certainly suffered, anyone who says the recruitment pool in NY has dried up doesn't know what they're talking about. The five families have kept their membership totals relatively steady for years now. And they're almost indestructible from a purely law enforcement approach. And we don't see the same premature predictions from law enforcement and government officials about the demise of the NY Mafia that we did in the 1980s and 1990s.