THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Confederate wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:33 pm

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:51 am I can't remember where I saw it and I've tried sifting through all the posts, but did I see correctly that there's documentation that Antonio Lombardo was the Outfit's official "boss" at one point? If so, what were the time periods for this?

Antonio Lombardo was the President of the Union Siciliana and was killed in 1928. I don't know when he became the President.

cavita wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:51 am I can't remember where I saw it and I've tried sifting through all the posts, but did I see correctly that there's documentation that Antonio Lombardo was the Outfit's official "boss" at one point? If so, what were the time periods for this?

DPG wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:10 am

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:43 am ko

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am

Petespin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:01 am

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:48 pm It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.

On the subject of Capone being made, his presence at the Atlantic City conference should put that to rest imo.

I believe there should be a discussion on wether Torrio was ever made though. I mean he came to Chicago and worked for Big Jim(who has never been said to have been made correct?). Then by the time Capone was made Torrio was out of the picture in Chicago. But everything you read about post-Chicago Torrio paints him as a 'Elder Statesmen' of the mob who helps Luciano and Lansky create the 'National Crime Syndicate.' If this is the case then who made him and what family was he in?

I would be very interested in everyone's opinion on Torrio and also in any information concerning post-Chicago Torrio.

Theres also a story that before his death, Torrio allegedly made peace between Ricca and Accardo since there was some type of cold war between the two at the time. Story goes that Torrio arrived from NY together with Gaetano Ricci from the Genovese fam and so if Torrio ever switched families or was later made in some, I believe it wouldve been that one

I was waiting on ya to chime in buddy.

Do you have much info on post Chicago Torrio?

Villain wrote: ↑Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:43 am ko

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am

Petespin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:01 am

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:48 pm It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.

On the subject of Capone being made, his presence at the Atlantic City conference should put that to rest imo.

I believe there should be a discussion on wether Torrio was ever made though. I mean he came to Chicago and worked for Big Jim(who has never been said to have been made correct?). Then by the time Capone was made Torrio was out of the picture in Chicago. But everything you read about post-Chicago Torrio paints him as a 'Elder Statesmen' of the mob who helps Luciano and Lansky create the 'National Crime Syndicate.' If this is the case then who made him and what family was he in?

I would be very interested in everyone's opinion on Torrio and also in any information concerning post-Chicago Torrio.

Theres also a story that before his death, Torrio allegedly made peace between Ricca and Accardo since there was some type of cold war between the two at the time. Story goes that Torrio arrived from NY together with Gaetano Ricci from the Genovese fam and so if Torrio ever switched families or was later made in some, I believe it wouldve been that one

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am

Petespin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:01 am

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:48 pm It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.

On the subject of Capone being made, his presence at the Atlantic City conference should put that to rest imo.

I believe there should be a discussion on wether Torrio was ever made though. I mean he came to Chicago and worked for Big Jim(who has never been said to have been made correct?). Then by the time Capone was made Torrio was out of the picture in Chicago. But everything you read about post-Chicago Torrio paints him as a 'Elder Statesmen' of the mob who helps Luciano and Lansky create the 'National Crime Syndicate.' If this is the case then who made him and what family was he in?

I would be very interested in everyone's opinion on Torrio and also in any information concerning post-Chicago Torrio.

johnny_scootch wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:34 pm

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am
I would be very interested in everyone's opinion on Torrio and also in any information concerning post-Chicago Torrio.

Niether Colisimo nor Torrio were made. They had an Italian organization but it was very different and totally separate from the Chicago Sicilian organization which was a part of Cosa Nostra. Torrio is retired and living in Italy by the time Capone brings his group under the Cosa Nostra umbrella. I'm also of the opinion that the National Crime Syndicate along with Murder Inc. are complete and total fabrications.

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am
I would be very interested in everyone's opinion on Torrio and also in any information concerning post-Chicago Torrio.

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:53 pm I don't have much to say in response that hasen't already been said but the evidence from various different sources matches and paints a clear picture. It's very clear that Capone was made by Masseria in 1928 and immediately made capodecina, attending the Atlantic City conference, becoming the dominant force in the Chicago underworld by 1930, being officially recognised as the Windy City's representante by Maranzano in 1931 and then becoming a founding member of the Commission.

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am
I believe there should be a discussion on wether Torrio was ever made though. I mean he came to Chicago and worked for Big Jim(who has never been said to have been made correct?). Then by the time Capone was made Torrio was out of the picture in Chicago. But everything you read about post-Chicago Torrio paints him as a 'Elder Statesmen' of the mob who helps Luciano and Lansky create the 'National Crime Syndicate.' If this is the case then who made him and what family was he in?

I would be very interested in everyone's opinion on Torrio and also in any information concerning post-Chicago Torrio.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:38 am Masseria was one of, if not the first, Boss to make non-Sicilians like Frankie Yale and Vito Genovese into his family. Plus of course he did business with Lucianos Jewish crew members.

Pogo

Petespin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:13 am

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am

Petespin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:01 am

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:48 pm It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.

Where did you read that? It's interesting if true.

DPG wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:10 am

Petespin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:01 am

chin_gigante wrote: ↑Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:48 pm It's not a frivolous claim that Capone was made and served on the Commission. You have Bonanno, Nick Gentile and the other FBI sources all saying the same thing. The idea of Capone being an independent hood seems to come from a pre-1950s/60s understanding of LCN.

THey may have been saying what they felt they needed to say, being informants. Maybe he was made, but I never thought so, and his being made by Massseria makes it sound less credible. Capone was from Naples, Masseria had all Sicilians with him. Maybe he was made, we are all just speculating. Sources and their credibility tend to change with they say. Boanno says neither his nor ever had any drug involmmetnt, no one finds that credible.

The myth that Masseria didn't do business with non Sicilians has been debunked many times over I believe. I remember reading that one early informant told his handler that Masseria was laying low at the time because a Jewish jewelry burglar he was partners with had recently been arrested. Just another in a long list of myths used to sell Luciano as the creator of modern oc.