THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **DPG** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:44 pm

I've read about the combine as well. And thanks for the additional info.

P.S. I doubt if I know more about Madden then you buddy, just would like to think I have a clear view of his activities in Hot Springs. As far as how or if he actually fit into a 'national structure' it's obvious you have more info than me. The thing that sticks in my side the most is when Hot Springs gets lumped into 'National Crime Syndicate' operations simply because Madden was in town. These were my exact thoughts until I started researching. Madden may have been Chicago or New York's guy in Hot Springs but I can guarantee you he didn't relish or enjoy that role if it was the case. I truly believe he became a dedicated Hot Springs citizen and tried to leave his past and everyone in it behind him. I also believe he is lumped in with all these other guys based on his past. Rant over lol I gotta get off my ass and find some time to finish my research cause I'm sure everyone is tired of hearing this narrative out of me over and over.

by **Villain** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:08 pm

DPG wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:36 am
Villain wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:08 am Thanks a lot Stroccos, Cavita and SilentPartnerz

@DPG you obviously know more than me on the Madden subject but i swear that i used to read that he was one time under or with Lansky who in turn was an "avougat" for the NY mob, according to Accardo himself, which i believe was the Genovese fam. In fact, Madden was more often seen with Jake Lansky and Alo and i know that we shouldnt judge someone for associating but once is cool...two times cool...every week or every month, well that tells us that this guy belongs to that crew....but you.might be right who knows
Is it in Florida where they were seen together? I didn't know about them being seen together. If he had interests in Florida, outside of the track, then I would think they would be with Lansky and Co. Where is it Accardo said this?

In 1944 the government labeled the Lansky bros, Madden, Alo, Adonis, Pisano and others as a specific group who controlled gambling houses and casinos all around the country. Also during the 50's the Lincoln Hotel in NY was a meeting place for Lansky, Alo and Madden, when in NY. Maybe someone can correct me on this but I think that Ben Marden was a Genovese associate who was closely connected to Madden, Zwillman, Costello, Kastel, Moretti and others

Search the MF site with "Madden Lansky" or "Madden Alo" or "Accardo Lansky" and you can read about everything which I previously stated. Try also newspapers.com, you also might find some stuff

by **SILENT PARTNERZ** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:06 am

DPG wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:36 am
Villain wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:08 am Thanks a lot Stroccos, Cavita and SilentPartnerz

@DPG you obviously know more than me on the Madden subject but i swear that i used to read that he was one time under or with Lansky who in turn was an "avougat" for the NY mob, according to Accardo himself, which i believe was the Genovese fam. In fact, Madden was more often seen with Jake Lansky and Alo and i know that we shouldnt judge someone for associating but once is cool...two times cool...every week or every month, well that tells us that this guy belongs to that crew....but you.might be right who knows
Is it in Florida where they were seen together? I didn't know about them being seen together. If he had interests in Florida, outside of the track, then I would think they would be with Lansky and Co. Where is it Accardo said this?

Every mob guy met at Joe Sonken's restaraunt when in FL.
That's probably where they were seem together.

by **DPG** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:36 am

Villain wrote: ↑Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:08 am Thanks a lot Stroccos, Cavita and SilentPartnerz

@DPG you obviously know more than me on the Madden subject but i swear that i used to read that he was one time under or with Lansky who in turn was an "avougat" for the NY mob, according to Accardo himself, which i believe was the Genovese fam. In fact, Madden was more often seen with Jake Lansky and Alo and i know that we shouldnt judge someone for associating but once is cool...two times cool...every week or every month, well that tells us that this guy belongs to that crew....but you.might be right who knows

Is it in Florida where they were seen together? I didn't know about them being seen together. If he had interests in Florida, outside of the track, then I would think they would be with Lansky and Co. Where is it Accardo said this?

by **Villain** » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:08 am

Thanks a lot Stroccos, Cavita and SilentPartnerz

@DPG you obviously know more than me on the Madden subject but i swear that i used to read that he was one time under or with Lansky who in turn was an "avougat" for the NY mob, according to Accardo himself, which i believe was the Genovese fam. In fact, Madden was more often seen with Jake Lansky and Alo and i know that we shouldnt judge someone for associating but once is cool...two times cool...every week or every month, well that tells us that this guy belongs to that crew....but you.might be right who knows

by **DPG** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:57 am

Villain wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:40 am

I look at Madden more as an extended arm for the Genovese fam

I know we've had this discussion more than once, but what do you base this on? Having dinner with Costello when he came to town? There is a ton more info connecting Madden with Chicago and New Orleans once he left New York and settled in Hot Springs. I mean when he had problems with NO regarding the race wire the Hump backed him up. Ive said it a million times, everyone's view that Madden was some 'Arkansas Godfather' is simply not based on facts but instead on his prior reputation. He was simply another gambling operator in town, who had to work with locals to get anything done and was forced out of the casinos a number of times. After W.S. Jacobs(the man who bailed out Luciano) died in 1940 and Leo was voted out in 1947 the closest there ever came to a 'Boss' in Hot Springs was Dane Harris. More than once Madden was forced to give up control of every interest he had in thr city for gambling to be allowed to continue.

by **SILENT PARTNERZ** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:18 am

Villain wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:40 am Thanks a lot fellas. Yeah you all reminded regarding many names such as Worthman, Garfield and Rockman but i never heard of Michaels or Berman or Hilf so thanks again.

I look at Madden more as an extended arm for the Genovese fam and close friend of Chicago but still he was located in Hot Springs which is the needed area. Also i never really researched Dalitz except for stumbling upon his name in different situations but i always thought of him as a real deffinition of associate or overseer who took his orders rather then making moves on his own and controlling certain rackets other than the Vegas scheme

Here is a great write up on St. Louis. Allen May does a good job laying it all out:
https://web.archive.org/web/20120604231 ... uis/1.html

by **cavita** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:56 am

Nicholas Torzeski appeared in the South Beloit, Illinois area in the late 1950s and was allegedly close to Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito, but in the early 1970s upon investigation it was also discovered he had links to the Mafia through James "Jimmy Doyle" Plumeri and Genovese capo Peter DeFeo. Soon after this he moved to San Diego.

by **Stroccos** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:12 am

Villain wrote: ↑Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:40 am Thanks a lot fellas. Yeah you all reminded regarding many names such as Worthman, Garfield and Rockman but i never heard of Michaels or Berman or Hilf so thanks again.

I look at Madden more as an extended arm for the Genovese fam and close friend of Chicago but still he was located in Hot Springs which is the needed area. Also i never really researched Dalitz except for stumbling upon his name in different situations but i always thought of him as a real deffinition of associate or overseer who took his orders rather then making moves on his own and controlling certain rackets other than the Vegas scheme

Dalitz was about power as a gangster can get he was partners with the mayfield rd mob

by **Villain** » Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:40 am

Thanks a lot fellas. Yeah you all reminded regarding many names such as Worthman, Garfield and Rockman but i never heard of Michaels or Berman or Hilf so thanks again.

I look at Madden more as an extended arm for the Genovese fam and close friend of Chicago but still he was located in Hot Springs which is the needed area. Also i never really researched Dalitz except for stumbling upon his name in different situations but i always thought of him as a real deffinition of associate or overseer who took his orders rather then making moves on his own and controlling certain rackets other than the Vegas scheme

by **Eline2015** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 4:10 pm

Remnants of Purple gang such as Sam Garfield

by **SILENT PARTNERZ** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:40 pm

St. Louis:
Syrians
James (Horseshoe Jimmy) Michaels
Paul "Paulie" Leisure
East St. Louis boss:
Frank "Buster" Wortman
then, Arthur Berne.

by **SILENT PARTNERZ** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:27 pm

Owney Madden - Hot Springs, Arkansas

by **UTC** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:26 pm

Davie Berman in Minneapolis.

by **Stroccos** » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:56 am

Moe dalitz
Milton rockman

THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Post a reply

Expand view Topic review: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?

Re: Other non-Italian "members" from around the Midwest?