THE BLACK HAND FORUM

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:39 pm There didn't necessarily need to be an official boss named upon Chin's death. And Bellomo being the heir apparent doesn't mean he slid into that spot immediately.

When Chin died in December 2005, there continued to be a ruling panel in place, in one form or another, as there had been since 1997. Rotating, as it was, due to various factors like legal problems, health, etc. And it appears it was the panel that set overall policy and made major decisions. And different guys from the panel would be the acting boss one time or another. Their role being to run things day-to-day.

Obviously Leo was one of these. He had been on the panel before becoming acting boss in 2005. I don't recall the feds referring to him as the acting boss after he was incarcerated (unless it was in the past tense?), but technically speaking you can't have an acting boss behind bars. The whole point of being an acting boss is precisely because a guy is in a position to act, i.e. to run things directly on the street, either because the official boss is incapacitated or in a transition period. It's why acting boss and street boss are essentially the same thing and people shouldn't over-complicate it.

Going back to Bellomo, we can see from some articles that he was consulted on things while he was in prison. The Coppola issue, for example. Even the Rao's table nonsense, which he lectured them about. But, again, that doesn't mean he was the boss by that point or that everyone was deferring to him as the final word once Chin was gone. The info we have shows he continued to be consulted while in prison, was on the panel when he got out, and eventually was made the first official boss since Chin's death.

Frank wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:54 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:29 pm

Frank wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:39 pm There didn't necessarily need to be an official boss named upon Chin's death. And Bellomo being the heir apparent doesn't mean he slid into that spot immediately.

When Chin died in December 2005, there continued to be a ruling panel in place, in one form or another, as there had been since 1997. Rotating, as it was, due to various factors like legal problems, health, etc. And it appears it was the panel that set overall policy and made major decisions. And different guys from the panel would be the acting boss one time or another. Their role being to run things day-to-day.

Obviously Leo was one of these. He had been on the panel before becoming acting boss in 2005. I don't recall the feds referring to him as the acting boss after he was incarcerated (unless it was in the past tense?), but technically speaking you can't have an acting boss behind bars. The whole point of being an acting boss is precisely because a guy is in a position to act, i.e. to run things directly on the street, either because the official boss is incapacitated or in a transition period. It's why acting boss and street boss are essentially the same thing and people shouldn't over-complicate it.

Going back to Bellomo, we can see from some articles that he was consulted on things while he was in prison. The Coppola issue, for example. Even the Rao's table nonsense, which he lectured them about. But, again, that doesn't mean he was the boss by that point or that everyone was deferring to him as the final word once Chin was gone. The info we have shows he continued to be consulted while in prison, was on the panel when he got out, and eventually was made the first official boss since Chin's death.

And all that is consistent with what info we have. I know we have discussed this before, and it wasn't long ago. But didn't an informant describe Leo as Boss and Mario Gigante as his Acting Underboss? This is why I have speculated that Leo could possibly been bumped up to Official Boss after Chin died. If informant was correct, it sounded like they went back to a traditional administration briefly. Remember with the panel, there was no underboss or Consigliere.

I recall someone saying that John Bologna identified Mario Gigante as Leo's acting underboss. Not sure what he said about Leo himself. If he called him the boss, maybe it was in a generic sense. Either way, we have the feds in both 2007 and 2010 charging Leo with being the acting boss or former acting boss. Not the boss. And if had been made boss then, he would likely still be the boss now. But he's not. As far as I'm concerned, the info and timeline is pretty clear and there's no need for speculation.

Ok your right with him being charged twice as acting boss or former acting boss, then I will agree with you. Bologna did refer to him as boss and Gigante as acting underboss. Like you said he might be being generic. Or he could have been misquoted. He also could be mis labeling Gigante as acting underboss, instead of a panel member.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:29 pm

Frank wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:39 pm There didn't necessarily need to be an official boss named upon Chin's death. And Bellomo being the heir apparent doesn't mean he slid into that spot immediately.

When Chin died in December 2005, there continued to be a ruling panel in place, in one form or another, as there had been since 1997. Rotating, as it was, due to various factors like legal problems, health, etc. And it appears it was the panel that set overall policy and made major decisions. And different guys from the panel would be the acting boss one time or another. Their role being to run things day-to-day.

Obviously Leo was one of these. He had been on the panel before becoming acting boss in 2005. I don't recall the feds referring to him as the acting boss after he was incarcerated (unless it was in the past tense?), but technically speaking you can't have an acting boss behind bars. The whole point of being an acting boss is precisely because a guy is in a position to act, i.e. to run things directly on the street, either because the official boss is incapacitated or in a transition period. It's why acting boss and street boss are essentially the same thing and people shouldn't over-complicate it.

Going back to Bellomo, we can see from some articles that he was consulted on things while he was in prison. The Coppola issue, for example. Even the Rao's table nonsense, which he lectured them about. But, again, that doesn't mean he was the boss by that point or that everyone was deferring to him as the final word once Chin was gone. The info we have shows he continued to be consulted while in prison, was on the panel when he got out, and eventually was made the first official boss since Chin's death.

And all that is consistent with what info we have. I know we have discussed this before, and it wasn't long ago. But didn't an informant describe Leo as Boss and Mario Gigante as his Acting Underboss? This is why I have speculated that Leo could possibly been bumped up to Official Boss after Chin died. If informant was correct, it sounded like they went back to a traditional administration briefly. Remember with the panel, there was no underboss or Consigliere.

I recall someone saying that John Bologna identified Mario Gigante as Leo's acting underboss. Not sure what he said about Leo himself. If he called him the boss, maybe it was in a generic sense. Either way, we have the feds in both 2007 and 2010 charging Leo with being the acting boss or former acting boss. Not the boss. And if had been made boss then, he would likely still be the boss now. But he's not. As far as I'm concerned, the info and timeline is pretty clear and there's no need for speculation.

Frank wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 4:08 pm

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:39 pm There didn't necessarily need to be an official boss named upon Chin's death. And Bellomo being the heir apparent doesn't mean he slid into that spot immediately.

When Chin died in December 2005, there continued to be a ruling panel in place, in one form or another, as there had been since 1997. Rotating, as it was, due to various factors like legal problems, health, etc. And it appears it was the panel that set overall policy and made major decisions. And different guys from the panel would be the acting boss one time or another. Their role being to run things day-to-day.

Obviously Leo was one of these. He had been on the panel before becoming acting boss in 2005. I don't recall the feds referring to him as the acting boss after he was incarcerated (unless it was in the past tense?), but technically speaking you can't have an acting boss behind bars. The whole point of being an acting boss is precisely because a guy is in a position to act, i.e. to run things directly on the street, either because the official boss is incapacitated or in a transition period. It's why acting boss and street boss are essentially the same thing and people shouldn't over-complicate it.

Going back to Bellomo, we can see from some articles that he was consulted on things while he was in prison. The Coppola issue, for example. Even the Rao's table nonsense, which he lectured them about. But, again, that doesn't mean he was the boss by that point or that everyone was deferring to him as the final word once Chin was gone. The info we have shows he continued to be consulted while in prison, was on the panel when he got out, and eventually was made the first official boss since Chin's death.

And all that is consistent with what info we have. I know we have discussed this before, and it wasn't long ago. But didn't an informant describe Leo as Boss and Mario Gigante as his Acting Underboss? This is why I have speculated that Leo could possibly been bumped up to Official Boss after Chin died. If informant was correct, it sounded like they went back to a traditional administration briefly. Remember with the panel, there was no underboss or Consigliere.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:39 pm There didn't necessarily need to be an official boss named upon Chin's death. And Bellomo being the heir apparent doesn't mean he slid into that spot immediately.

When Chin died in December 2005, there continued to be a ruling panel in place, in one form or another, as there had been since 1997. Rotating, as it was, due to various factors like legal problems, health, etc. And it appears it was the panel that set overall policy and made major decisions. And different guys from the panel would be the acting boss one time or another. Their role being to run things day-to-day.

Obviously Leo was one of these. He had been on the panel before becoming acting boss in 2005. I don't recall the feds referring to him as the acting boss after he was incarcerated (unless it was in the past tense?), but technically speaking you can't have an acting boss behind bars. The whole point of being an acting boss is precisely because a guy is in a position to act, i.e. to run things directly on the street, either because the official boss is incapacitated or in a transition period. It's why acting boss and street boss are essentially the same thing and people shouldn't over-complicate it.

Going back to Bellomo, we can see from some articles that he was consulted on things while he was in prison. The Coppola issue, for example. Even the Rao's table nonsense, which he lectured them about. But, again, that doesn't mean he was the boss by that point or that everyone was deferring to him as the final word once Chin was gone. The info we have shows he continued to be consulted while in prison, was on the panel when he got out, and eventually was made the first official boss since Chin's death.

slimshady_007 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 1:09 pmWhat was the ‘rao’s table nonsense’?

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 12:39 pm There didn't necessarily need to be an official boss named upon Chin's death. And Bellomo being the heir apparent doesn't mean he slid into that spot immediately.

When Chin died in December 2005, there continued to be a ruling panel in place, in one form or another, as there had been since 1997. Rotating, as it was, due to various factors like legal problems, health, etc. And it appears it was the panel that set overall policy and made major decisions. And different guys from the panel would be the acting boss one time or another. Their role being to run things day-to-day.

Obviously Leo was one of these. He had been on the panel before becoming acting boss in 2005. I don't recall the feds referring to him as the acting boss after he was incarcerated (unless it was in the past tense?), but technically speaking you can't have an acting boss behind bars. The whole point of being an acting boss is precisely because a guy is in a position to act, i.e. to run things directly on the street, either because the official boss is incapacitated or in a transition period. It's why acting boss and street boss are essentially the same thing and people shouldn't over-complicate it.

Going back to Bellomo, we can see from some articles that he was consulted on things while he was in prison. The Coppola issue, for example. Even the Rao's table nonsense, which he lectured them about. But, again, that doesn't mean he was the boss by that point or that everyone was deferring to him as the final word once Chin was gone. The info we have shows he continued to be consulted while in prison, was on the panel when he got out, and eventually was made the first official boss since Chin's death.

Rocco wrote: ↑Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:10 am

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:24 pm

Rocco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:58 am If we are going off of Capeci and LE we could use that date. And I would imagine no one wants the title "Official Boss" in this day an age. But I would have to imagine that Barney has been the family's leader since Chins death. I think the panel and any acting boss they had probably referred to him. I believe that anyone wether it be a panel or acting boss was acting on his behalf since the death of Chin. If Leo held more sway and the family supported him as boss...he'd be boss today. Who knows? And that exactly what they want you to think ! lol

That's basically my theory too. Like I've said before I'm officially going by what LE and Capeci has said, but wouldn't be surprised if they change it in the future. That period of Leo being Chins last acting boss, the Chins death, and Leo indicted sticks in my mind and along with Bellomo getting out that it could be possible that one was the Chins replacement shortly after his death. For one I don't think it helped leaders to be acting, by that time, look it all the panel and acting bosses who got indicted at that point.

The idea of the Acting and Panel would be that THEY get indicted instead of the guy ultimately calling the shots. Think about out it. You gotta be nutts to want everyone to know that you are the Official Boss. Look at Bonanno Boss Mancuso. He doesn't stand a chance when and IF he hits the streets. I just think Barney has been the guy calling the shots since Chins death. I think the Panel and the series of acting bosses referred to him for major decisions. You have to have a front if you are going to survive on the streets more then a few yrs. Having Fat Tony gave Chin 11 more years on the streets. Its the OC blue print to follow if you are going to be boss. Gotti is the blue print for failure as an OC leader. Guy lasted 4yrs on the streets and was hit with a series of major RICO indictments till they picked him up last time in Jan 90. Had they not bought off juries he would have lasted about 1-2yrs.

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:24 pm

Rocco wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:58 am If we are going off of Capeci and LE we could use that date. And I would imagine no one wants the title "Official Boss" in this day an age. But I would have to imagine that Barney has been the family's leader since Chins death. I think the panel and any acting boss they had probably referred to him. I believe that anyone wether it be a panel or acting boss was acting on his behalf since the death of Chin. If Leo held more sway and the family supported him as boss...he'd be boss today. Who knows? And that exactly what they want you to think ! lol

That's basically my theory too. Like I've said before I'm officially going by what LE and Capeci has said, but wouldn't be surprised if they change it in the future. That period of Leo being Chins last acting boss, the Chins death, and Leo indicted sticks in my mind and along with Bellomo getting out that it could be possible that one was the Chins replacement shortly after his death. For one I don't think it helped leaders to be acting, by that time, look it all the panel and acting bosses who got indicted at that point.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:42 pm

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:58 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:23 am

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:24 am The ruling panel was still in place up to early 2014 so Bellomo would have become Boss sometime after that. There was no official Boss in the years after Gigante died. No need to over complicate things.


Pogo

+1

Do we know if ruling panel was still in place when Leo and Mangano were both out of prison, before Leo was indicted in 2007.

In January 2005, Dominick Cirillo, Larry Dentico, and Mario Gigante were reported by Capeci to be on the ruling panel.

Cirillo was indicted as acting boss in April 2005. Matthew Ianniello was an acting boss in July 2005. The feds later said Danny Leo (who had been on the ruling panel) became acting boss in 2005 so it may have been after that. Capeci wrote about Leo being the acting boss in November 2006 and he was indicted as such in May 2007.

In June 2009, an article identified Benny Mangano, Ernie Muscarella, Barney Bellomo, and Larry Dentico as being on a "rotating panel" of recently released senior members running the family.

Anyway, it would seem there has been a ruling panel in place since the time Cirillo created it not long after he became acting boss in 1997 until at least 2009 when another article said Tino Fiumara had been on a 3-man panel. It probably went on for longer than that, at least until Bellomo took over as official boss.

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:42 pm

Frank wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 11:58 am

Wiseguy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:23 am

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:24 am The ruling panel was still in place up to early 2014 so Bellomo would have become Boss sometime after that. There was no official Boss in the years after Gigante died. No need to over complicate things.


Pogo

+1

Do we know if ruling panel was still in place when Leo and Mangano were both out of prison, before Leo was indicted in 2007.

In January 2005, Dominick Cirillo, Larry Dentico, and Mario Gigante were reported by Capeci to be on the ruling panel.

Cirillo was indicted as acting boss in April 2005. Matthew Ianniello was an acting boss in July 2005. The feds later said Danny Leo (who had been on the ruling panel) became acting boss in 2005 so it may have been after that. Capeci wrote about Leo being the acting boss in November 2006 and he was indicted as such in May 2007.

In June 2009, an article identified Benny Mangano, Ernie Muscarella, Barney Bellomo, and Larry Dentico as being on a "rotating panel" of recently released senior members running the family.

Anyway, it would seem there has been a ruling panel in place since the time Cirillo created it not long after he became acting boss in 1997 until at least 2009 when another article said Tino Fiumara had been on a 3-man panel. It probably went on for longer than that, at least until Bellomo took over as official boss.

Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:50 pm

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:18 pm This ain’t the Dave Clark Five.

Maybe there could be a power-sharing situation. Three of the other families have this kind of arrangement.


Pogo