THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **Peppermint** » Tue Mar 31, 2020 4:14 am

SonnyBlackstein wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:58 pm
Peppermint wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:08 pm
dack2001 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:50 am Even back then for every 10 members only probably 2 or 3 were stone killers. Gigante was capable and willing, just was sloppily executed. Surely he had killed before to be given that assignment. There are a lot of botched hits in the grand scheme of things so him getting a pass isn't shocking, especially once Costello retired.

Its not the easiest thing in the world to pull the trigger. That's why those that can kill and then go home and kiss their kids goodnight and never discuss it again are most feared and respected.
A real killer also immediately goes and gets something to eat after the deed is done before returning home to their families. You can tell they got nerves of steal, or just like someone who lacks a killer’s instinct they would vomit the moment they have fled the scene.
Can you please be quiet.

I’m not wrong,
But since you said please, ok!

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:58 pm

Peppermint wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:08 pm
dack2001 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:50 am Even back then for every 10 members only probably 2 or 3 were stone killers. Gigante was capable and willing, just was sloppily executed. Surely he had killed before to be given that assignment. There are a lot of botched hits in the grand scheme of things so him getting a pass isn't shocking, especially once Costello retired.

Its not the easiest thing in the world to pull the trigger. That's why those that can kill and then go home and kiss their kids goodnight and never discuss it again are most feared and respected.
A real killer also immediately goes and gets something to eat after the deed is done before returning home to their families. You can tell they got nerves of steal, or just like someone who lacks a killer’s instinct they would vomit the moment they have fled the scene.

Can you please be quiet.

by **Peppermint** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 10:08 pm

dack2001 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:50 am Even back then for every 10 members only probably 2 or 3 were stone killers. Gigante was capable and willing, just was sloppily executed. Surely he had killed before to be given that assignment. There are a lot of botched hits in the grand scheme of things so him getting a pass isn't shocking, especially once Costello retired.

Its not the easiest thing in the world to pull the trigger. That's why those that can kill and then go home and kiss their kids goodnight and never discuss it again are most feared and respected.

A real killer also immediately goes and gets something to eat after the deed is done before returning home to their families. You can tell they got nerves of steal, or just like someone who lacks a killer’s instinct they would vomit the moment they have fled the scene.

by **newera_212** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 9:45 pm

I wonder if Chin during his tenures as Captain and Boss ordered anyone killed for a botched job themselves? trying to recall all of the known murders during his boss tenure but nothing like that is ringing a bell, although it doesn't seem far fetched. ironic, but not far fetched. anyone know?

by **Charlie** » Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:37 pm

Probably common knowledge but interesting nonetheless, this is what Harold Konigsberg said to the feds about the Costello hit:

"Konigsberg said that Tommy Ryan was in on the "hit" on FRANK COSTELLO, along with DOM THE SAILOR, but the both of them fled the scene and left "CHIN" GIGANTE in the lurch"

In the same file, Konigsberg also says Tony Bender was whacked by Eboli and DeQuarto.

by **dack2001** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 8:50 am

Even back then for every 10 members only probably 2 or 3 were stone killers. Gigante was capable and willing, just was sloppily executed. Surely he had killed before to be given that assignment. There are a lot of botched hits in the grand scheme of things so him getting a pass isn't shocking, especially once Costello retired.

Its not the easiest thing in the world to pull the trigger. That's why those that can kill and then go home and kiss their kids goodnight and never discuss it again are most feared and respected.

by **CabriniGreen** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:36 am

not beating, berating

by **CabriniGreen** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:36 am

Someone, ( actually, most likely B.) posted some notes awhile back..

They had Gagliodotto, a STONE killer, beating Gigante in public for such a terrible piece of work.... correct?

by **CabriniGreen** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:34 am

Look at his arch rival....

Gottis hit on McBratney was a shit show too....

by **CabriniGreen** » Sun Mar 29, 2020 2:30 am

In Joe Bonnanos book, I forget the exact wording, but he pretty much said it was inconceivable that Gigante would have a career after such a failure....

Now remember, we are talking Vito here. Now he was undoubtedly a stone cold gangster, but he also took a known pedophile as his protege, killed his wife's husband so he could marry her, ( and she was apparently gay, so she probably didnt even really want him, actually, it's a little pitiful..) just mob cronyism at its finest, lol

by Ed » Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:40 pm

Lou Para/MPL0215 are right. The Majestic apartment doorman Norval Keith testified at the trial that he heard Gigante utter that phrase.

To undermine Keith's testimony, Gigante's attorney accused him of being an alcoholic. Keith, the attorney charged, "had DTs (the shakes from alcoholic withdrawal) right here in this court room on the stand." Keith also "possesses a reddened nose that shows 'like a beacon light on the foggy ocean.'"

The prosecutor defended Keith by saying, "He's a Scotchman who likes a drink of scotch at night-and so do I."

by **Lou_Para** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:19 pm

Chicago wrote:Lou, Do you know JCB? He is a big Pittsbugh/Cleveland guy.

I only know him from the Boards,but I always enjoy his contributions.

by **Lupara** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:02 pm

Chicago wrote:In Chicago, there have been a few instances where guys were killed for a botched hit.
One example was Campise & Gattuso from the North Side Rush/Street Crew.
They were both killed because of the botched hit on Ken Eto.

I was thinking about them after I wrote it. Their bodies were found a week later in the trunk of a car because of the smell. Footage of this is shown in Crime Inc.

by **HairyKnuckles** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:07 am

Was Artuso one of the shooters on the Castellano hit?

I think he was one of the four designated shooters but he never fired any shots. I think his gun jammed or something? I could be wrong though.

by **Mukremin** » Thu Nov 06, 2014 10:02 am

B. wrote:
HairyKnuckles wrote:
B. wrote:Where does the "This is for you, Frank" line originally come from? A witness?

Like a lot of the more famous stories from mob lore, I question how much of this hit attempt went down the way it's been described. I don't have anything that disagrees with the established story except gut feeling.

Well, that´s how it was described in Selwyn Raab´s Five Families. As his source/s, Raab cites NYPD reports, trial testimony and articles found in NY Times describing the shooting of Costello. He doesn´t specify though where exactly the info comes from. And this is a frequently occurring "problem" with his otherwise, close to excellent book btw. (That´s something to keep in mind.)
It's been years since I sat down and read Five Families and it's a solid book overall, but when I've flipped through it the last couple of years I've seen some mistakes. I've got no reason to disagree with what he says, though... just when it comes to the more famous mobsters and especially when murder contracts are involved, I tend to be skeptical of the narrative that gets presented in the media.

I am reading through it again, so feel free to ask any questions regarding the book and info on it.

Was Artuso one of the shooters on the Castellano hit?

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