Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

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Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by antimafia » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:10 pm

^^^^
In Canada at least.

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by antimafia » Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:07 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:21 pm Jesus Holy God!! Is this the SAME GUY!!

Did ALL OF CANADA talk to this guy? lol
Yes, the various Canadian criminals spoke with Vincenzo Morena. For reasons still unknown to me, reporters are not publishing Morena’s name, even though they discovered it via Capeci. Morena has been identified in court proceedings and newspaper articles as CW-1, with not a single mention of his name.

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by CabriniGreen » Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:21 pm

Jesus Holy God!! Is this the SAME GUY!!

Did ALL OF CANADA talk to this guy? lol

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by antimafia » Fri Dec 14, 2018 7:02 pm

L'industrie du cannabis dans la ligne de mire d’un proche de la mafia

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/11 ... bis-canada

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by antimafia » Wed Dec 12, 2018 12:29 pm

antimafia wrote: ↑Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:07 am ^^^^
You're welcome.

I don't have anywhere near enough knowledge to know which members of the Genoveses, Gambinos, and Bonannos would be tightest with 'ndrangheta members in NYC. Sergi would have read the Italian-language documents regarding Operation New Bridge--she even references them in her and Lavorgna's book--so perhaps the names of American LCN members are in those documents? I'll take a look over at Scribd.com just because now I'm curious. If I don't find anything, I'll e-mail her.
Wiseguy and others:

The document I unsuccessfully tried to find on the Net, in particular on Scribd.com, is titled "Operation New Bridge, No. 3273/12 R.G.N.R. DDA." Anna Sergi told me that she can't share the file with me--I didn't ask, but the reason probably has to do either with its hard-copy format, size, and so on--but she told me she'd try to find online a shorter version of the document if she has time. She also suggested I narrow my Internet search by focusing on the "No. 3273/12 R.G.N.R." part of the document name.

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by Moscone65 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:58 pm

I don't think it has mattered if you were Sicilian for a long while now. It more depended on the boss, the crew you fell in with, and how good you were. If you worked with a bunch of old school sicilians, and we're an average earner, they might not take the time to try and put you on record. If your crew was mixed in general, and/or you were extremely noteworthy, they would probably propose you for membership. Also likely depended on how many candidates they wanted to make, who the other candidates were, ect. Nowadays, as well out all know, they don't really give a shit what part of Italy your from, preferably somewhere in the south perhaps, but even if you weren't I don't think they care. Greg Scarpas family was from Venice. The only exceptions would be the calabrians in North America, they only "make" family members, and people who intermarry into their family, which are often times members of families that are traditionally ndrangheta. So all made guys in the Calabrese clans in Canada ect are likely still Calabrese.

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by Wiseguy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:08 pm

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:44 am Yeah, just, I dont think American LCN would hold you back, if you were Calabrese, would they? She said, NOW they can raise to a position of power? They couldnt before? I figured she meant guys from Italy.....

I guess it depends on the boss, or capo...

Quick question, Operation Colombo, did it even touch the Schirripa clan? Are they still in NY?
If I remember correctly, there were some arrests in Italy that coincided with Operation Columbus but I'm not sure what their affiliation was.
Also, I'm still not sure on what she was saying with the Siderno group, and the Gioiosa group as far as NY. It's not real clear to me , what was your take?
What comments are you talking about?

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by Moscone65 » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:43 pm

In Chicago there are/were alot of Barese.

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by CabriniGreen » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:44 am

Yeah, just, I dont think American LCN would hold you back, if you were Calabrese, would they? She said, NOW they can raise to a position of power? They couldnt before? I figured she meant guys from Italy.....

I guess it depends on the boss, or capo...

Quick question, Operation Colombo, did it even touch the Schirripa clan? Are they still in NY?

Also, I'm still not sure on what she was saying with the Siderno group, and the Gioiosa group as far as NY. It's not real clear to me , what was your take?

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by Wiseguy » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:20 am

CabriniGreen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:32 am @wiseguy
On the point of the Calabrian management.....
Are you sure you read that correct? I'm pretty sure she meant transplanted Calabrians, like that Duo from Queens... Not Americans with Calabrian ancestry....
Why would that matter in NY today? Unless they were/are relatives of these clans...


We've had Calabrese in positions of power, Anastasia and Costello the most obvious examples....
Well, here she speaks in the context of the rankings of the families -

Since approximately 2013, according to sources in the NYPD speaking to Jane’s on 16 April, US authorities have observed a “shift towards a Calabrian management, primarily in the rankings of the Gambino and Genovese families; these people have always been here…but they now can raise to a position of power."

But the next part seems to suggest what you're talking about. Though it she be pointed out she got the Genovese family mixed up with the Bonanno family in regards to Operation New Bridge -

This has been the case most notably since 2014, when Operation New Bridge – a joint FBI-Italian project –uncovered a drug-trafficking network importing cocaine to Europe and heroin to the US. This network was headed by Calabrian mafia clans, using Gambino affiliates tasked with debt collection and money laundering and Genovese associates handling the actual movement of drugs.

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by scagghiuni » Sun Dec 09, 2018 8:12 am

cosa nostra absorbed some neapolitans and calabrians in the states like ndrangheta absordeb some sicilian in north italy and australia, just opportunity
at the beginning of 1900 100% of american mafia members were sicilians, after 1920s the vast majority was sicilian with some neapolitans and calabrians

Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by CabriniGreen » Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:32 am

@wiseguy
On the point of the Calabrian management.....
Are you sure you read that correct? I'm pretty sure she meant transplanted Calabrians, like that Duo from Queens... Not Americans with Calabrian ancestry....
Why would that matter in NY today? Unless they were/are relatives of these clans...


We've had Calabrese in positions of power, Anastasia and Costello the most obvious examples....

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by Angelo Santino » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:21 pm

Lupara wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 pm
Chris Christie wrote:
Lupara wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:08 am
Chris Christie wrote:Wiseguy:
Here's what Sergi said -

"The Italian ethnic character of LCN in New York has become increasingly hybrid, but ethnicity still plays a role in the families’ evolution and their choice of new partners. 'Ndrangheta involvement with LCN families occurs because of aligned business interests, the commonality of mafia methods, a common language, and shared ethnic origins."

She also said law enforcement has seen an increase of Calabrians in the leadership of the Gambino and Genovese families. Members who have always been there but have risen to leadership roles. Not sure who she is talking about specifically.
Very accurate, it goes back to the 1910's. Demographically speaking, the Gambinos got the majority of Calabrians, the Genoveses got the Provincials (Salerno down to Cosenza) and Westchester, both groups split the Neapolitans (very few of what we call Napolitan' were from the city of Naples but the surrounding countryside, this includes probably 80-90% of them). Who went with who was based on criminal affiliations rather than regional origin.

Lets fast forward to the 80's when John Gotti became boss, the Sicilian Palermitan faction didn't disappear it remained in the background just as it did under Anastasia. The NY groups are organic and multifaceted entities, very different from Phila. which is 80% centered on one racket.
How would you divide the Gambinos and Genoveses in percentages of Sicillians, Calabrians, Neapolitans and other mainlanders, both historically and in recent times?

My understanding has always been that the Gambinos were one of the most Sicillian of the Five Families, along with the Bonannos ofcourse.
I can't divide them by percentage, there's not enough information. The Gambinos remain the most Palermitan linked family but that's not what are exclusively. They have had other factions (Sciaccatani etc) since 1900.
It could be possible if we look at all known members per family at a certain point in time (say the 1950s) and then look at their individual ancestry and then simply do the math. The information is there but it will be a lot of work...

Seems like all the original families were predominantly Sicillian, but then gradually absorbed other Italians in the 1910s and 20s, ofcourse basing this on your research. The old Morello group absorbed the Cammoristi (possibly including Genovese) who ultimately rose to high raking positions. Seems like the mainlanders were basically in charge of the Genovese family in the 50s and beyond..
No. We don't have complete membership lists and before 1960 when the FBI really started gathering intel, it's speculative. You can go to Limey's page and find something very similar (more than a few things are wrong but it's a good starting point) but we're dealing with fragments of intel. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

All the families were Sicilian, the Mafia comes from Sicily. Each and every organized crime family in the USA (and that includes Chicago) were founded by Sicilian expatriates. Actually Rochester by Calabrian-Americans with the blessing of Pittsburgh but by that point, everyone was Ital and there's no significance to their lineage.

Neapolitans are a different breed from Sicilians and Calabrians, they come from a more urbanized area (the farthest north of Italy compared with the other two areas.) They don't really go for the cloak and daggers shit, that began going out the window in the late 1800's. And by that point the Camorra was so popular and well known that plays were performed about it, their tattoos and hierarchy were dissected. They were, by 1890, in very much the same place as the American LCN is today: severely weakened and anyone here can rattle off the hierarchy and 9 times out of 10 any new captain or boss is someone we- civilians- already have written down. We amateurs don't have all the info but Pogo's charts is something that very few individuals would have the knowledge to do 30-40 years ago. It can no longer be a "secret society" just like the camorra could no longer be a century prior.

Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by Lupara » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 pm

Chris Christie wrote:
Lupara wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:08 am
Chris Christie wrote:Wiseguy:
Here's what Sergi said -

"The Italian ethnic character of LCN in New York has become increasingly hybrid, but ethnicity still plays a role in the families’ evolution and their choice of new partners. 'Ndrangheta involvement with LCN families occurs because of aligned business interests, the commonality of mafia methods, a common language, and shared ethnic origins."

She also said law enforcement has seen an increase of Calabrians in the leadership of the Gambino and Genovese families. Members who have always been there but have risen to leadership roles. Not sure who she is talking about specifically.
Very accurate, it goes back to the 1910's. Demographically speaking, the Gambinos got the majority of Calabrians, the Genoveses got the Provincials (Salerno down to Cosenza) and Westchester, both groups split the Neapolitans (very few of what we call Napolitan' were from the city of Naples but the surrounding countryside, this includes probably 80-90% of them). Who went with who was based on criminal affiliations rather than regional origin.

Lets fast forward to the 80's when John Gotti became boss, the Sicilian Palermitan faction didn't disappear it remained in the background just as it did under Anastasia. The NY groups are organic and multifaceted entities, very different from Phila. which is 80% centered on one racket.
How would you divide the Gambinos and Genoveses in percentages of Sicillians, Calabrians, Neapolitans and other mainlanders, both historically and in recent times?

My understanding has always been that the Gambinos were one of the most Sicillian of the Five Families, along with the Bonannos ofcourse.
I can't divide them by percentage, there's not enough information. The Gambinos remain the most Palermitan linked family but that's not what are exclusively. They have had other factions (Sciaccatani etc) since 1900.
It could be possible if we look at all known members per family at a certain point in time (say the 1950s) and then look at their individual ancestry and then simply do the math. The information is there but it will be a lot of work...

Seems like all the original families were predominantly Sicillian, but then gradually absorbed other Italians in the 1910s and 20s, ofcourse basing this on your research. The old Morello group absorbed the Cammoristi (possibly including Genovese) who ultimately rose to high raking positions. Seems like the mainlanders were basically in charge of the Genovese family in the 50s and beyond..

Re: RE: Re: Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

by Angelo Santino » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:11 am

Lupara wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:08 am
Chris Christie wrote:Wiseguy:
Here's what Sergi said -

"The Italian ethnic character of LCN in New York has become increasingly hybrid, but ethnicity still plays a role in the families’ evolution and their choice of new partners. 'Ndrangheta involvement with LCN families occurs because of aligned business interests, the commonality of mafia methods, a common language, and shared ethnic origins."

She also said law enforcement has seen an increase of Calabrians in the leadership of the Gambino and Genovese families. Members who have always been there but have risen to leadership roles. Not sure who she is talking about specifically.
Very accurate, it goes back to the 1910's. Demographically speaking, the Gambinos got the majority of Calabrians, the Genoveses got the Provincials (Salerno down to Cosenza) and Westchester, both groups split the Neapolitans (very few of what we call Napolitan' were from the city of Naples but the surrounding countryside, this includes probably 80-90% of them). Who went with who was based on criminal affiliations rather than regional origin.

Lets fast forward to the 80's when John Gotti became boss, the Sicilian Palermitan faction didn't disappear it remained in the background just as it did under Anastasia. The NY groups are organic and multifaceted entities, very different from Phila. which is 80% centered on one racket.
How would you divide the Gambinos and Genoveses in percentages of Sicillians, Calabrians, Neapolitans and other mainlanders, both historically and in recent times?

My understanding has always been that the Gambinos were one of the most Sicillian of the Five Families, along with the Bonannos ofcourse.
I can't divide them by percentage, there's not enough information. The Gambinos remain the most Palermitan linked family but that's not what are exclusively. They have had other factions (Sciaccatani etc) since 1900.

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