by Angelo Santino » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:21 pm
Lupara wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:07 pm
Chris Christie wrote:Lupara wrote: ↑Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:08 am
Chris Christie wrote:Wiseguy:
Here's what Sergi said -
"The Italian ethnic character of LCN in New York has become increasingly hybrid, but ethnicity still plays a role in the families’ evolution and their choice of new partners. 'Ndrangheta involvement with LCN families occurs because of aligned business interests, the commonality of mafia methods, a common language, and shared ethnic origins."
She also said law enforcement has seen an increase of Calabrians in the leadership of the Gambino and Genovese families. Members who have always been there but have risen to leadership roles. Not sure who she is talking about specifically.
Very accurate, it goes back to the 1910's. Demographically speaking, the Gambinos got the majority of Calabrians, the Genoveses got the Provincials (Salerno down to Cosenza) and Westchester, both groups split the Neapolitans (very few of what we call Napolitan' were from the city of Naples but the surrounding countryside, this includes probably 80-90% of them). Who went with who was based on criminal affiliations rather than regional origin.
Lets fast forward to the 80's when John Gotti became boss, the Sicilian Palermitan faction didn't disappear it remained in the background just as it did under Anastasia. The NY groups are organic and multifaceted entities, very different from Phila. which is 80% centered on one racket.
How would you divide the Gambinos and Genoveses in percentages of Sicillians, Calabrians, Neapolitans and other mainlanders, both historically and in recent times?
My understanding has always been that the Gambinos were one of the most Sicillian of the Five Families, along with the Bonannos ofcourse.
I can't divide them by percentage, there's not enough information. The Gambinos remain the most Palermitan linked family but that's not what are exclusively. They have had other factions (Sciaccatani etc) since 1900.
It could be possible if we look at all known members per family at a certain point in time (say the 1950s) and then look at their individual ancestry and then simply do the math. The information is there but it will be a lot of work...
Seems like all the original families were predominantly Sicillian, but then gradually absorbed other Italians in the 1910s and 20s, ofcourse basing this on your research. The old Morello group absorbed the Cammoristi (possibly including Genovese) who ultimately rose to high raking positions. Seems like the mainlanders were basically in charge of the Genovese family in the 50s and beyond..
No. We don't have complete membership lists and before 1960 when the FBI really started gathering intel, it's speculative. You can go to Limey's page and find something very similar (more than a few things are wrong but it's a good starting point) but we're dealing with fragments of intel. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there.
All the families were Sicilian, the Mafia comes from Sicily. Each and every organized crime family in the USA (and that includes Chicago) were founded by Sicilian expatriates. Actually Rochester by Calabrian-Americans with the blessing of Pittsburgh but by that point, everyone was Ital and there's no significance to their lineage.
Neapolitans are a different breed from Sicilians and Calabrians, they come from a more urbanized area (the farthest north of Italy compared with the other two areas.) They don't really go for the cloak and daggers shit, that began going out the window in the late 1800's. And by that point the Camorra was so popular and well known that plays were performed about it, their tattoos and hierarchy were dissected. They were, by 1890, in very much the same place as the American LCN is today: severely weakened and anyone here can rattle off the hierarchy and 9 times out of 10 any new captain or boss is someone we- civilians- already have written down. We amateurs don't have all the info but Pogo's charts is something that very few individuals would have the knowledge to do 30-40 years ago. It can no longer be a "secret society" just like the camorra could no longer be a century prior.
[quote=Lupara post_id=96370 time=1544317657 user_id=111]
[quote="Chris Christie"][quote=Lupara post_id=96323 time=1544288930 user_id=111]
[quote="Chris Christie"]Wiseguy:
[quote]Here's what Sergi said -
"The Italian ethnic character of LCN in New York has become [b]increasingly hybrid, but ethnicity still plays a role in the families’ evolution and their choice of new partners.[/b] 'Ndrangheta involvement with LCN families occurs because of aligned business interests, the commonality of mafia methods, a common language, and shared ethnic origins."
She also said law enforcement has seen an increase of Calabrians in the leadership of the Gambino and Genovese families. Members who have always been there but have risen to leadership roles. Not sure who she is talking about specifically.[/quote]
Very accurate, it goes back to the 1910's. Demographically speaking, the Gambinos got the majority of Calabrians, the Genoveses got the Provincials (Salerno down to Cosenza) and Westchester, both groups split the Neapolitans (very few of what we call Napolitan' were from the city of Naples but the surrounding countryside, this includes probably 80-90% of them). Who went with who was based on criminal affiliations rather than regional origin.
Lets fast forward to the 80's when John Gotti became boss, the Sicilian Palermitan faction didn't disappear it remained in the background just as it did under Anastasia. The NY groups are organic and multifaceted entities, very different from Phila. which is 80% centered on one racket.[/quote]How would you divide the Gambinos and Genoveses in percentages of Sicillians, Calabrians, Neapolitans and other mainlanders, both historically and in recent times?
My understanding has always been that the Gambinos were one of the most Sicillian of the Five Families, along with the Bonannos ofcourse.
[/quote]
I can't divide them by percentage, there's not enough information. The Gambinos remain the most Palermitan linked family but that's not what are exclusively. They have had other factions (Sciaccatani etc) since 1900.[/quote]It could be possible if we look at all known members per family at a certain point in time (say the 1950s) and then look at their individual ancestry and then simply do the math. The information is there but it will be a lot of work...
Seems like all the original families were predominantly Sicillian, but then gradually absorbed other Italians in the 1910s and 20s, ofcourse basing this on your research. The old Morello group absorbed the Cammoristi (possibly including Genovese) who ultimately rose to high raking positions. Seems like the mainlanders were basically in charge of the Genovese family in the 50s and beyond..
[/quote]
No. We don't have complete membership lists and before 1960 when the FBI really started gathering intel, it's speculative. You can go to Limey's page and find something very similar (more than a few things are wrong but it's a good starting point) but we're dealing with fragments of intel. Just because we don't see it doesn't mean it wasn't there.
All the families were Sicilian, the Mafia comes from Sicily. Each and every organized crime family in the USA (and that includes Chicago) were founded by Sicilian expatriates. Actually Rochester by Calabrian-Americans with the blessing of Pittsburgh but by that point, everyone was Ital and there's no significance to their lineage.
Neapolitans are a different breed from Sicilians and Calabrians, they come from a more urbanized area (the farthest north of Italy compared with the other two areas.) They don't really go for the cloak and daggers shit, that began going out the window in the late 1800's. And by that point the Camorra was so popular and well known that plays were performed about it, their tattoos and hierarchy were dissected. They were, by 1890, in very much the same place as the American LCN is today: severely weakened and anyone here can rattle off the hierarchy and 9 times out of 10 any new captain or boss is someone we- civilians- already have written down. We amateurs don't have all the info but Pogo's charts is something that very few individuals would have the knowledge to do 30-40 years ago. It can no longer be a "secret society" just like the camorra could no longer be a century prior.