THE BLACK HAND FORUM

by **scagghiuni** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:37 am

in the past there were several camorra and 'ndrangheta bosses who were made members of cosa nostra
the neapolitan nuvoletta, gionta, schiavone (casalesi) and the calabrian macri, piromalli for example

by **SonnyBlackstein** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:22 pm

Do we know of any historical cases of Cosa Nostra members being transferred to a Ndranghetta family or vice versa?

The circumstances would be rare but perhaps it was occasionally done under a new long term business arrangement where the respective families wanted their own man on the other end. Or something similar.

To extend the question have their been examples of made guys transferring between any of the major Italian LCN groups? Cosa Nostra, Camorra, Ndranghetta and Sacra Corona?

Edit: my phone changed Cosa Nostra to Cosa Nostradamus.

Which I found amusing.

by **Slumpy** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 4:55 pm

I have no idea about Controni's early roots, I think Laurentian is just pointing out that they may have held multiple allegiances at once and at that time, they weren't conflicting. I took a step further by speculating, but didn't mean to imply I think they weren't just fine with the status quo.

by **Lupara** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:11 pm

Slumpy wrote:I think what he's saying there is that both Cotroni and Violi were Calabrese and possibly as loyal to those ties as they were to the ones in the US. It was through their Italian connects (the ones they had blood relations to) that the Cotroni organization made their bread and butter, and without them, they would have nothing. On the other hand, they could distribute the heroin to anyone in the US willing to buy.

Yeah, they were members of the Bonanno family, but I suppose the question is how seriously did they take that status compared to the familial relationships of their Italian blood line?

The Cotronis seemed to take it quite seriously.

The way I understand it they did not come from a ndrangheta stronghold.

by **scagghiuni** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:46 am

it depends on the area, in north america cosa nostra is the dominant italian group so the calabrians are sometimes absorbed in the cosa nostra families, like anastasia in the gambino's
in north italy the ndrangheta is the dominant group and sicilians are sometimes inducted into the ndrangheta

by **Slumpy** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:30 am

I think what he's saying there is that both Cotroni and Violi were Calabrese and possibly as loyal to those ties as they were to the ones in the US. It was through their Italian connects (the ones they had blood relations to) that the Cotroni organization made their bread and butter, and without them, they would have nothing. On the other hand, they could distribute the heroin to anyone in the US willing to buy.

Yeah, they were members of the Bonanno family, but I suppose the question is how seriously did they take that status compared to the familial relationships of their Italian blood line?

by **scagghiuni** » Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:53 am

violi and cotroni had connections with ndrangheta, they were not members, they were members of cosa nostra because it was the dominant group in montreal and they were absorded in that organization

by **Laurentian** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:15 pm

Slumpy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:03 pm Is there any evidence to suggest the conflicts in Ontario and Quebec are linked?

I can't say if there is or not any evidence.

However, the mafia and the number of clans in Canada (mostly in Ontario and Québec) is relatively small compare to the mafia in Sicily and/or Calabria, where clans count by hundreds. So, I think it quite possible that the conflits and inter-related to somewhat extent due to the small numbers of persons involved.

And on the other hand the causes of the conflicts within the Ontario mafia are, in my opinion, not necessary the same than those of the Montreal mafia. But I will not be surprised to hear that both have or will have impacts abroad (Italy), because the main stake of all of this : importation and traffic of drugs.

by **Laurentian** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:52 pm

scagghiuni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:19 am violi and cotroni were members of cosa nostra (bonanno family) not ndrangheta

I may disagree with you on this. The elder Cotroni (Vincenzo) and Paolo Violi, while they had links to 'ndrangheta, it did not prevented them to be affiliated to Cosa Nostra (Bonanno). The Montreal decina has always responded to New York, especially during the 1960s and 1980. It continued during the Rizzuto reign until the relationship allegedly broke up in the late 1990s. Paolo's father, Domenico, was an important member of the 'ndrangheta in Sinopoli, Calabria. He had also links with Giacomo Luppino, once an influential and ranking member of the 'ndrangheta in Hamilton, Ontario. Luppino, you certainly know, was a close allied to Stefano Magaddino, boss of Buffalo, and Southern Ontario.

by **Slumpy** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:03 pm

Is there any evidence to suggest the conflicts in Ontario and Quebec are linked?

by **antimafia** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 11:12 am

MarcoW wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:37 am The Ndrangheta Clans are the new Strong and Powerful Italian Mafia Organisation this Times and in the Future.

The Rizuttos they were once maybe the Richest and strongest Mafia Family in North America have no Chance against the Calabrian Clans. This Guys have More Money, more Power Worldwide, more in the Drug Business, more contacs to other Criminal Organisations, and a lot more secretive as the Sicily Guys.

MarcoW wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:41 am Also the Caruana/Cuntreras i think is more a Power from the Past, not the Future.

MarcoW, you're the one who posted at the link below, correct?

http://www.gangsterbb.net/threads/ubbth ... Post920715

by **MarcoW** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:36 am

Today i think the People from Siderno (Commisso, Coluccio and other Clans) the Dominant Italians from Canada.

by **scagghiuni** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:19 am

violi and cotroni were members of cosa nostra (bonanno family) not ndrangheta

by **Laurentian** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:07 am

MarcoW wrote: ↑Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:41 am Also the Caruana/Cuntreras i think is more a Power from the Past, not the Future.

I quite agree with you on this.

As for the Montreal family, there was a time that the 'ndrangheta was quite influential among mafia groups in Canada, particularly in the 1960s and 1970s, when we consider that the Luppinos, the Violis and the Cotronis groups formed a solid block of alliance through mariage and criminal association. The Sicilian, while in the shadow, would emerge with force only at the end of the 1970s, as we all know.

by **scagghiuni** » Wed Sep 27, 2017 9:00 am

the rizzuto clan is not anymore what it used to be but it is still there after 7 years of mafia war and it can still revenges murders
also, i don't think is a ndrangheta vs mafia thing, it's more complex, the ndrangheta is maybe involved, but mostly in montreal is internal thing
the ndrangheta is currently the strongest criminal group, it doesn't mean it would be in the future too, the ndrangheta has been weakened by police arrests in italy in the latests years just like camorra and sicilian mafia, just a matter of time

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