by Antiliar » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:30 pm
B. wrote:
As an expert in the old days, do you think the way guys were "on record" or "with" someone was at all different back then? Guys who would get connected to a family through direct relations or same hometown cemented the family they would be with, but it seems possible that guys who got connected simply by living in a mob neighborhood might have had a little more freedom than they would later on. That's why Luciano and guys like him stand out, as you'd think if he was originally with D'Aquila's family he couldn't just be like "Hey, Masseria offered me a higher salary and promotion, seeya!" because that's the system as we know it post-1930s.
Once a guy is on record we know it can be a painstaking if not impossible process to get him released, but I don't know if it was always that way for guys who got connected to the mob on a circumstantial basis, especially if there were chaotic external circumstances. We know Valachi, who as a neighborhood criminal wasn't much different from Luciano in terms of how he got connected, was allowed to choose between three different families after the Castellammarese war. It's unlikely if not impossible that a guy like Carlo Gambino or Joe Bonanno would have been given that choice considering their blood and hometown connections to their respective families. But because Valachi was just some knockaround guy without those deep ties, circumstances allowed him to go elsewhere.
With all of the chaos of early prohibition and the disputes going on in the NYC mafia in the early 1920s, maybe Luciano was in a situation similar to what Valachi would later be in a decade later.
Guys could be "on the record" with one Family and end up with another. Sammy Gravano was associated with the Colombos then got picked up by the Gambinos, and Joe Pistone was "on record" with the Colombos too, but he ended up with the Bonannos. So I think it's fluid. I can't say how long it was like that, but I would guess that shortly after there were multiple Families in New York would be a good starting point, so possibly as early as the 1890s.
In Luciano's case, he was made during the period that Masseria/Morello were looking to increase their membership as protection against D'Aquila, who didn't recognize them. Since they weren't recognized they could be flexible with the rules and offer incentives to go with them. For example, we know that they made certain people with large gangs captains instead of having to start from the bottom. They could have done the same with Luciano. I believe he did this with Frankie Yale too, and probably Vito Genovese. Frank Costello was already a millionaire, so he could have been another example. It explains how the Masseria/Morello Family got to be the second largest borgata in such a short period of time. Especially considering that Reina split off (or they split off, depending on how you look at it) in this period, which could have been devastating.
Something else to consider is that Luciano's hometown of Lercara was connected to Corleone. Lercara was an important mining town and I believe that some of those mines were owned or controlled by people from Corleone. It's possible this could have accounted for something.
[quote="B."]
As an expert in the old days, do you think the way guys were "on record" or "with" someone was at all different back then? Guys who would get connected to a family through direct relations or same hometown cemented the family they would be with, but it seems possible that guys who got connected simply by living in a mob neighborhood might have had a little more freedom than they would later on. That's why Luciano and guys like him stand out, as you'd think if he was originally with D'Aquila's family he couldn't just be like "Hey, Masseria offered me a higher salary and promotion, seeya!" because that's the system as we know it post-1930s.
Once a guy is on record we know it can be a painstaking if not impossible process to get him released, but I don't know if it was always that way for guys who got connected to the mob on a circumstantial basis, especially if there were chaotic external circumstances. We know Valachi, who as a neighborhood criminal wasn't much different from Luciano in terms of how he got connected, was allowed to choose between three different families after the Castellammarese war. It's unlikely if not impossible that a guy like Carlo Gambino or Joe Bonanno would have been given that choice considering their blood and hometown connections to their respective families. But because Valachi was just some knockaround guy without those deep ties, circumstances allowed him to go elsewhere.
With all of the chaos of early prohibition and the disputes going on in the NYC mafia in the early 1920s, maybe Luciano was in a situation similar to what Valachi would later be in a decade later.[/quote]
Guys could be "on the record" with one Family and end up with another. Sammy Gravano was associated with the Colombos then got picked up by the Gambinos, and Joe Pistone was "on record" with the Colombos too, but he ended up with the Bonannos. So I think it's fluid. I can't say how long it was like that, but I would guess that shortly after there were multiple Families in New York would be a good starting point, so possibly as early as the 1890s.
In Luciano's case, he was made during the period that Masseria/Morello were looking to increase their membership as protection against D'Aquila, who didn't recognize them. Since they weren't recognized they could be flexible with the rules and offer incentives to go with them. For example, we know that they made certain people with large gangs captains instead of having to start from the bottom. They could have done the same with Luciano. I believe he did this with Frankie Yale too, and probably Vito Genovese. Frank Costello was already a millionaire, so he could have been another example. It explains how the Masseria/Morello Family got to be the second largest borgata in such a short period of time. Especially considering that Reina split off (or they split off, depending on how you look at it) in this period, which could have been devastating.
Something else to consider is that Luciano's hometown of Lercara was connected to Corleone. Lercara was an important mining town and I believe that some of those mines were owned or controlled by people from Corleone. It's possible this could have accounted for something.