THE BLACK HAND FORUM

AlexfromSouth wrote:

Chris Christie wrote:

AlexfromSouth wrote:

Chris Christie wrote:I believe that area was mixed with various Itals. Depending on the era going that south west from Red Hook you would be venturing into Russian/Polish Jewish and Irish dominated neighborhoods but it wasn't a black and white thing and all these groups shared the area. Even deep Italian Elizabeth in Manhattan or Sacket St Brooklyn still had some Irish sprinkled in here and there. Elizabeth St in 1890 was an Irish neighborhood, by 1893 there were only a few families remaining but they were there.

Thank you Christie very much, we could open a topic about the history of the Italian neigbourhoods in NY. That would be very cool. Do you recomend any online read about this kind of thing? Thank you.

Sadly no, Brooklyn was only incorporated into NYC in 1898, and given that Manhattan is the most widely recognized borough of NY, history wasn't as scrutinized until that point. Brooklyn's pre-1890 Italian history is often overlooked.

Just to ask, are you in the know and Interested about the South Brooklyn/The docks Italian american gangs?

Chris Christie wrote:

AlexfromSouth wrote:

Chris Christie wrote:I believe that area was mixed with various Itals. Depending on the era going that south west from Red Hook you would be venturing into Russian/Polish Jewish and Irish dominated neighborhoods but it wasn't a black and white thing and all these groups shared the area. Even deep Italian Elizabeth in Manhattan or Sacket St Brooklyn still had some Irish sprinkled in here and there. Elizabeth St in 1890 was an Irish neighborhood, by 1893 there were only a few families remaining but they were there.

Thank you Christie very much, we could open a topic about the history of the Italian neigbourhoods in NY. That would be very cool. Do you recomend any online read about this kind of thing? Thank you.

Sadly no, Brooklyn was only incorporated into NYC in 1898, and given that Manhattan is the most widely recognized borough of NY, history wasn't as scrutinized until that point. Brooklyn's pre-1890 Italian history is often overlooked.

AlexfromSouth wrote:

Chris Christie wrote:I believe that area was mixed with various Itals. Depending on the era going that south west from Red Hook you would be venturing into Russian/Polish Jewish and Irish dominated neighborhoods but it wasn't a black and white thing and all these groups shared the area. Even deep Italian Elizabeth in Manhattan or Sacket St Brooklyn still had some Irish sprinkled in here and there. Elizabeth St in 1890 was an Irish neighborhood, by 1893 there were only a few families remaining but they were there.

Thank you Christie very much, we could open a topic about the history of the Italian neigbourhoods in NY. That would be very cool. Do you recomend any online read about this kind of thing? Thank you.

Chris Christie wrote:I believe that area was mixed with various Itals. Depending on the era going that south west from Red Hook you would be venturing into Russian/Polish Jewish and Irish dominated neighborhoods but it wasn't a black and white thing and all these groups shared the area. Even deep Italian Elizabeth in Manhattan or Sacket St Brooklyn still had some Irish sprinkled in here and there. Elizabeth St in 1890 was an Irish neighborhood, by 1893 there were only a few families remaining but they were there.

Chris Christie wrote:Columbia, Van Brunt, President, N 2nd, Hicks, Union, Sackett, Degraw, Columbia Heights up to Water and Main St's. It's kinda forgotten now but Sicilians had a thriving colony there as early as the 1850's. It evidently was large enough by 1860 for Valerio Lanzirotti and Charles La Fata, staunch Lincoln supporters, to form the Italian Garibaldi Republican Wide-Awake Club. Compagnans began arriving in the 1870's and used Mulberry Bend as a landing point, in time many left for Jersey, others went to Italian Brooklyn and shared the area with the larger Sicilian population. None of these streets or neighborhoods were 100% homogeneous.

Chris Christie wrote:The Lucchese Family, when it was constituted in the 1920's amassed an unknown number of Palermitans, including Three Finger Lucchese himself who, correct me if I'm wrong, also came from a Mafia background. Whether the Bronx Corleonesi welcomed the Palermitans with a red carpet or just recruited locally is up for debate. Bronx had a sizable Palermitan populaton which is why D'Aquila had members there as well as lived there in his later years and ultimately met his demise there.

Biondo is a common surname but there might have been a relation. We'd have to hire a genealogist to be certain. Palermo families (lower f) were related to people in Sciacca (hence the Capitalized F connection within the Gambinos). Sicily from Tapani to Messina is only 80-some miles, not very large at all.

The Gambino's non-Sicilian membership is an area I admittedly know very little about. I have noticed that plenty of members were on or had business on Mott and parts of Mulberry and downtown Brooklyn which was very Compagnian whereas other parts of Mulberry and Elizabeth were Calabrian along with Boerum Hill to the Bushwick sections of Brooklyn. Amazingly, Williamsburg had a higher concentration of Calabrians than they did Sicilians (ie Castellammaresi).

Dwalin2014 wrote:By the way, John Scalish from Cleveland was related to them too by chance? What was his real original last name? Scalise, Scalice, Scalici? I mean, "Scalish" was oblviously a modification.

B. wrote:

Antiliar wrote:Carlo Gambino's sister Giuseppa/Josephine married a Giammona, I believe Giovanni "John" Giammona. He was a descendant of Antoninio Giammona, the earliest known Palermo Mafia boss. He was the boss of Uditore from the 1860s or 1870s to the 1890s, and his son-in-law was a Giuseppe Riccobono. So the Gambinos have a long lineage in the Mafia.

I started reading Lupo's "History of the Mafia" a couple weeks back (a lot to process in there) and saw Giammona's name and thought there might be a connection. I wonder why Leo Giammona ended up with the Luccheses rather than the Gambinos.

I also wondered about the Giuseppe Biondo who is mentioned as a mafia leader from that era of Sicily, though the Joseph Biondo in the Gambinos was from eastern Sicily so it's unlikely he was related.

There is a history of Calabrese Gambino members going back to the 1920s, but it's a much smaller faction than a family like the Genovese. What's weird is that despite being a minority they managed to have a number of influential members over the years with Anastasia obviously being the top one.

Antiliar wrote:Carlo Gambino's sister Giuseppa/Josephine married a Giammona, I believe Giovanni "John" Giammona. He was a descendant of Antoninio Giammona, the earliest known Palermo Mafia boss. He was the boss of Uditore from the 1860s or 1870s to the 1890s, and his son-in-law was a Giuseppe Riccobono. So the Gambinos have a long lineage in the Mafia.